@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Yes, Modern graphics == AmigaOS4.1 / AmigaONE, so updating games to 2021 standards on AmigaOS is possible.

No, I think the idea was for reimaginings of older titles for modern hardware, not retro hardware, which all OS4 hardware is.
It's muuuuch closer to 68k spec than it is modern hardware.
OS4 just isn't capable of anything resembling modern games. More capable than 68k, sure, but it couldnt even cope with what consoles from 2005/2006 were doing, which is hilarious.
Contrary to your suggestion, making games up to 2021 standards absolutely is *not* possible. Not even close.

Doesnt mean games cant be fun, but Windows 98 is a more capable gaming platform than OS4.x.
I really wish that wasnt the case, but it absolutely is.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 24-Jan-2022 at 05:07 PM.

@agami
Here what I do if i was Cloanto/ in charged / had the money

1. Secure rights to loads of classic games and titles

2. Build a App store integrated to Amiga Forever selling above titles for maybe a pound each?

3. Get Amiga Forever on Amazon, GOG, Steam, Epic and Microsoft store etc (if the above doesn't conflict with there policy's)

4. Make Amiga Forever for Android, launch on that platform

5. Make a Amiga Gaming Collection pack for Console Platforms ( Playstation, Xbox, Nintendo)
(also you could make this pack for all the online store listed in part 3.)

4. Work with the community to have competitions to make new games and apps with maybe mini prices and try and work with other developers to get more apps and new apps on the store.

5. Buy Amikit and make maybe Amiga Forever OS for Pi, Windows, Linux to sold with the app store integrated thanks to Rabbit Hole

6. Work with Pi or just make a better Mini Amiga system that has internet and can run Amiga Forever Os (like the Pi4 runs Amikit now) that can connect to the net and run the apps store have it a dual boot system that takes you into either the games or OS. with the app store

7. hopefully make money from the above to pay for new apps and advertising

8. if made enough money, make AmigaOS5 on the best hardware ever and we all live happy ever after

Last edited by amigang on 24-Jan-2022 at 05:30 PM.
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@amigang

None of this has anything to do with remastering old games until at least point 7 on your list! And you start that point with "hopefully"!

We don't need consolidated Amiga IP to see remasters of classic games because they stand on their own merit. I'm a bit confused why we need to involve Cloanto at all?!

Clicking windows and snapshoting/cleaning up icons is NOT the killer app we think it is; it's the applications stupid! Remake the classic Amiga apps and games and stop worrying about A-EON, Cloanto and Hyperion is the way forward IMHO!

P.S. Turrican is great and the ported MS-Dos version for AGA looks great but what about a new game?

_________________
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@fishy_fis

Quote:

No, I think the idea was for reimaginings of older titles for modern hardware, .....

Don't think of hardware, use software.

Many older games where 're imaged' with SDL on Windows or Linux, when done properly they could be ported with a simple recompile to MacOS, AOS4, MOS, AROS and maybe even AOS3 RTG.

Here is a SDL tutorial (Windows, Linux, Mac, AOS4, MOS, AROS, AOS3):
https://lazyfoo.net/SDL_tutorials/


Here is a SDL2 tutorial (Windows, Linux, Mac, AOS4, MOS):
https://lazyfoo.net/tutorials/SDL/

If you want to horizontal/vertical shooters, run&jump arcade style games, you will only get the typical Amiga / C64 retro games.

I you want to do more, like a complex RPG you can do much more.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 24-Jan-2022 at 07:18 PM.

@fishy_fis

Doom 3 is the best game it can run, thats a pc game from 2004.
at time that game came out, Windows XP was OS we used.
so AmigaOS4.1 is better then Win98, when it comes to games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OULfkzebojU&ab_channel=huguesnouvel

So lots of games that can be ported to AmigaOS4, but problem is lack developers and users to make that happen. at this point its not drivers that are problem.

That game was considered best game on PC in 2005.

the good part the GPU and drivers, we lot of texture memory, we TCL, shaders and all that, I guess most games ported to AmigaOS4.1 don’t use, more 20% of the drivers and 3D system can do.
Now if we made a 2021 game, using what we have today, for AmigaOS4, we can make what have today full fully optimized for OS and drivers, something a game port does not.

So to be clear not pc/xbox game 2021, but AmigaOne game 2021.
(If we had team of developers with the skills, something we don’t. big difference between porting a game and making a game.)

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@OneTimer1

I think biggest market now is the 68060+P96/CGX 8BIT+AHI system,
for music they can use ptreplayer.library/ptplayer.library.

Lots people are getting larger screens, 2D strategy and adventure games and puzzle games can work on larger seen modes without using a lots of CPU power.

With 060 you can get away playing a mp3 or small mepg2 video clip.

a game with that spec will run on AROS 68K, AmigaOS 68K, MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1, so pretty much every Amiga market. Most likely few A500, A600, A1200 that has not upgraded there Amiga Systems, but simple upgrade with Vampire or Buffy or Warp060 they can be part of that fun. Some upgrades are pretty low cost, can be bundled with the game

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@NutsAboutAmiga

"What is your major malfunction numbnuts?"
(To quote Full Metal Jacket).

This thread is not about porting Mac/PC games from 1996-2005 to the Amiga but about reimagining old Amiga games for 2022! If I wanted to play Syndicate Wars I'd buy it off GOG for the PC!

Last edited by BigD on 24-Jan-2022 at 09:20 PM.

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agami Quote:

Naturally, if I or a group of investors had millions of $ to throw at a new computing platform based around revitalizing the 68k and leveraging a decent 68k retro market of which the Amiga segment is the largest, then the plan to get there would be much simpler and take less time.

Millions of dollars isn't that much anymore, especially when spread out to multiple investors. The Amiga was funded by a Texas oil baron and 3 dentists with $7 million in 1982 (inflation adjusted about $20 million today). That was just 4 guys and a million dollars has about 1/3 the value today. I know a surgeon who could write a personal check for over a million dollars, enough to fund an ASIC. I know young investors who aren't even 50 years old who have single investments worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in my investment group. Tech investment has been hot including for retro gaming hardware recreations and fabless semiconductor startups. Investors are looking for good investments though. The big Amiga investment obstacles are uncertainty, division and lack of leadership. I haven't seen what I need to see to invest or recommend investing in the Amiga. Of course nobody is trying to attract investors either as an Amiga slow and certain niche market death seems to be the accepted legacy of the Amiga. The window of opportunity may pass as low interest financing disappears in a high inflation environment and Amiga users get too old.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

I think biggest market now is the 68060+P96/CGX 8BIT+AHI system, for music they can use ptreplayer.library/ptplayer.library.

The 68060+RTG Amiga target seems to be one of the most popular for the Amiga at least but the games also run on the Vampire and in UAE. The lack of rev 6 68060s limits continued growth for 68060 based systems. Even regular 68060s are drying up and LC, EC and Chinese fakes are being used sadly. The 68060+RTG target and so many new rev 6 capable 68060 accelerators shows how much the Apollo core has failed to gain developer support in the Amiga community. The Apollo core in FPGA could be used instead of a 68060 but no third party accelerator or device has besides Majsta's Vampire project which was incorporated into the Apollo team. Users like the AGA compatibility but the Apollo project has failed to surpass the popularity of the Natami project which was more inclusive of developer input and seemed more open and honest under Thomas's leadership, even as he was stressed by this role. The Natami was a huge missed opportunity by the Amiga powers who were producing a few thousand PPC AmigaOne machines while there were hundreds of thousands of people interested in the Natami without any promotion or advertising which is what made me first believe mass produced Amiga hardware was possible.

BigD Quote:

This thread is not about porting Mac/PC games from 1996-2005 to the Amiga but about reimagining old Amiga games for 2022! If I wanted to play Syndicate Wars I'd buy it off GOG for the PC!

Every reimagined and modernized classic Amiga game on another platform is a lost sale and oppurtunity for the Amiga platform and another shovel in the grave of the Amiga platform. Do we want Amiga users pulled away from the Amiga platform to play games on another platform? Don't you think the place where we could see the most reimagined and modernized classic Amiga games is on the Amiga with a much larger user base?

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@NutsAboutAmiga

No.
Doom3 runs on Windows 98. It even runs on Win95. It requires DX8. *That* is the extent of its requirements.
The default installer wont install it because it does an OS version check, but you a person can edit the script and have it check for Win9x instead and it the works.

And it works without cutting effects unlike unlike what AmigaOS APIs allow.

And the fact OS4 can use 3 generation old hardware is moot when a person considers the fact the majority of that hardware's features cant even be used. There's simply no API support or driver for it.

Win98 is much more capable.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 25-Jan-2022 at 02:59 AM.

@OneTimer1

I dont need a list. I've ported dozens of games using sdl to Amiga-noids myself.
Im more than a little familiar.

And you've disregarded the point anyway, which was *modern* reimaginings.
None of the sdl games ported to OS4 are *anything* resembling modern. OS4 simply isnt capable of it. Both because of hardware and software (ie. its APIs simply dont support modern functionality).

@fishy_fis

On Win95/98 Doom3 looks like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSIT18bOvg&ab_channel=LGR

The problem with what your saying is that XP/2000 drivers do not work on Win95/Win98/WinMe. So your suck with older driver, and there for a older graphic card. If stuck with old gfx card, you also be able use the best textures, as you don't have ram on graphic card need for that.

Of course, Doom3 is OpenGL game or else it won’t be possible, without lots of work.

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/202708-is-doom-3-dx9-or-opengl/

And we have support for graphic card on AmigaOS4.1 not even linux supports on powerpc.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

So your suck with older driver, and there for a older graphic card.

Meanwhile you talk about mordern games on OS 4.1 using driver which has feature set par on mobile phones of 2009.

@Rose

we use OpenGL to OpenES wrapper.

to ptitSeb for gl4es and all his help with everything
to Daniel for OpenGL ES2 and all his help with everything
to Hans for Warp3DNova and all his help with everything
to Capehill for never ended work on SDL1/2, glSnoop, and all his help with everything
to AEON/AmigaKit because of which we have OpenGL ES2 and Warp3DNova
to others for all the help and tests

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=75162.0

In short, we can have games with better textures and higher polygon counts then most of game ports we have, but game mechanic’s and ai will maybe suffer as we only have one CPU core we can use.

OpenCL is kind what ShaderToy uses I belive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4MixYoYTgM&ab_channel=OMEGA12001

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@NutsAboutAmiga

OpenGL ES 2 is from 2007 and became part of Android 2.0 in 2009.

Shadertoy has nothing to do with OpenCL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadertoy

@fishy_fis

Quote:

OS4 simply isnt capable of it. Both because of hardware and software (ie. its APIs simply dont support modern functionality).

Exactly! So why are some derailing an optimistic look at rebooting our favourite 'miggy games?

@Thread

OS4.x hardware currently sucks and it's a miracle that Wings Remastered and Tower57 got ported so suck it up and get on with life! Game development and hardware/OS building are two different things IMHO so let's not muddy the waters! If Tower57 and Hollywood sell A1222 Plus boards then again that would be a miracle because they're both available on other platforms!

... but hey we've got Spencer a kinda 3D reimagined Oscar for OS4.x?!

Last edited by BigD on 25-Jan-2022 at 10:05 AM.

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@agami

D/Generation is "reimagined" on Steam.
Steam - D/Generation HD

I'm not inclined to buy it until it is on sale as I already own the original for the CD32.

Does anyone know if this game was also on other systems at the time?
Also, was it just shovelware from the non-CD Amigas back then? I can't remember anymore...

Are there many other games that have made this transition?
I don't recall seeing many which is why this one stood out to me...

@gonegahgah

You can currently get D/Generation HD and Rally Racers as a bundle for £3.30 (80% off)!!! I suggest you buy them now! Report back if it's any good I've still got a backlog with Syndicate Wars and Civ III still to play. They've been sitting on my hard drive for a couple of years. Syndicate Wars just hasn't got the same magic as the first one but it is still fun! I prefer The Settlers II to Civ III and just got The Settlers II working on Shapeshifter

https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/8130/Back_to_school_offer/

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@BigD

Quote:

P.S. Turrican is great and the ported MS-Dos version for AGA looks great but what about a new game?

Oh no. You mean the 256 colour PC version had to be backported to AGA? Now that really shows the poor state of affairs in Amiga gaming. The superior AGA version should have been ported and degraded to the PC. But no AGA didn't exist because Commodore stuffed it up.

Quote:

... but hey we've got Spencer a kinda 3D reimagined Oscar for OS4.x?!

Oh no. That kiddie cute platformer is nothing like Oscar. Don't let those mean spikes fool you. And cut!

Rose Quote:

Meanwhile you talk about modern games on OS 4.1 using driver which has feature set par on mobile phones of 2009.

Well, there are modern games which target lower spec mobile devices like the ARM Android platform. The Raspberry Pi built a platform on the lower spec mobile device SoCs and gets more games than the AmigaOne platform. Those platforms have millions of users while the AmigaOne has thousands which is all that matters for game developers.

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

In short, we can have games with better textures and higher polygon counts then most of game ports we have, but game mechanic’s and ai will maybe suffer as we only have one CPU core we can use.

A sizable portion of the AmigaOne platform has low CPU performance and memory which is holding the platform back much as CBM failed to upgrade the 68k CPUs in the Amiga enough and then the average spec wasn't good enough for games ported to the Amiga. We need a CPU standard spec which brings the Amiga forward enough to make ports easy but also cheap enough that every Amiga user upgrades to it. The Raspberry Pi is hitting a good value point with a $5-$15 SoC ASIC. We leave Amiga users behind if we use a commodity ARM SoC so we need a 68k SoC and Amiga chipset backward compatibility all the way back to the original Amiga. We would like to have a 3D graphics standard better than the Raspberry Pi but that is tricky. The current AmigaOne 3D support is really overkill considering the small user base and average platform CPU spec without SMP.

gonegahgah Quote:

D/Generation is "reimagined" on Steam. Steam - D/Generation HD I'm not inclined to buy it until it is on sale as I already own the original for the CD32. Does anyone know if this game was also on other systems at the time? Also, was it just shovelware from the non-CD Amigas back then? I can't remember anymore...

Just reading the reviews at the bottom of your link reveals Amiga (CD32), Atari ST and PC versions for the original.

gonegahgah Quote:

Are there many other games that have made this transition? I don't recall seeing many which is why this one stood out to me...

Sure, from mild enhancements to complete reimagining and modernization.

Another World (15th and 20th anniversary editions)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_World_(video_game)
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zh8bF2uMMw
comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b86QXaOdgX8

D/Generation (HD version)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D/Generation
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYPGSPF2Yws

Dungeon Master
old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Master_(video_game)
new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_Grimrock
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae-SmQnTtUU

Flashback (Fade to Black, Flashback 25th Anniversary Collector’s Edition, Flashback 2 due in 2022)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashback_(1992_video_game)
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsL1E4zSNrA

Shadow of the Beast
old: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Beast_(1989_video_game)
new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Beast_(2016_video_game)
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x28VDZDKXHw

It Came from the Desert (Amiga fan modernization furthering atmosphere perfectly)
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=95430
trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p0F2CPgo-c&t=54s
devlog: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcLKGgu0Bk&t=99s

I'm sure there are more but they all have one thing in common. They don't make it to the Amiga platform because it is too small to make money! There isn't any competitive niche Amiga hardware!

@matthey

Quote:

Millions of dollars isn't that much anymore, especially when spread out to multiple investors.

True. It is not the actual sum that is the issue, it's about convincing investors that it is a worthwhile investment. Finding the right investors that are OK with a longer term return.

The simple broad-strokes plan is one which starts with what I can do right now. External investment is essential in later phases, and should it come in earlier phases then I would alter the plan. I always work with parallel initiatives. Time waits for no one.

After I recover from the setbacks of the past 2 years of COVID, I will go on the road with that business plan I've been refining over the past few years. When I'm in your neck of the woods, I'd appreciate some intros to potential investors.

Quote:

Every reimagined and modernized classic Amiga game on another platform is a lost sale and oppurtunity for the Amiga platform and another shovel in the grave of the Amiga platform.

I don't think anyone is going ahead and working on bringing to the current market AA or AAA titles based on classic Amiga hits. It's certainly not my intention.

I meant this post to be an exercise in active imagination. I wanted to see what others would like to see as games in a contemporary setting. Ultimately, these insights would serve as an end goal, and could potentially help create stepping stones in the 68k renaissance.

That said, a hit game on contemporary platforms based on an Amiga classic is not the worst source of revenue to fund the 68k comeback.

Last edited by agami on 26-Jan-2022 at 01:50 AM.

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