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      /  What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
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Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page )
Poll : What product do you think is best?
UnAmiga
Vampire4 standalone.
Mister
MiniMig
The A500
A real Amiga / AmigaONE
Not voting, I just like eating pancakes.
 
PosterThread
matthey 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 2:33:26
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

BigD Quote:

Since the question is about Amiga games I'd say that fits the bill. I'd also add that it is the best option for children of Amigans or retro console fans that want to see what the Amiga was all about (on the game side at least).


Ease of use is part of the convenience. Most Amigas didn't even come with a hard drive installed although some high end models like my Amiga 3000 did. THEA500 Mini menu is more like a console menu for the nonvolatile memory and is easy to use. The CD32 is also easy to use but not sophisticated because there is no game installing with all games running directly from CD. Compare that to today where more than a few PS5 customers complain about the 825GiB SSD being too small (650GiB usable after 115GiB for OS and 60GiB reserved for buffers and updates). Game installs average roughly 100GiB each so THEA500 Mini holds more retro games than a PS5 holds modern games. The small size of Amiga games is a nice advantage allowing huge libraries on a solid state drive and minimizing downloads improving convenience.

BigD Quote:

Maybe the A1222Plus could have been that for the AmigaOne platform but I fear it needs Hyperion to play ball to launch hard and they simply are not currently and are more interested in AmigaOS3.x and litigation.

Edit. But I can't think of many AmigaOne exclusive games that anyone is missing out on TBH so maybe I should have left that out of the discussion. Some people do think RunInUAE etc works well as to be seemless though for 68k games.


By the time the A1222+ is outfitted with a case, power supply, graphics card and SSD, the AmigaNone will cost as much as a PS5 or XBox Won. Where the niche market A1222+ SoC has been castrated, the mass produced console APUs have GPUs with built in ray tracing and custom hardware features. Even just looking at the CPU performance, the A1222+ will never be a modern game machine, doesn't have good enough compatibility to be a retro Amiga game machine and hundreds of unit sales will not attract developers. There probably is a market for cheap game systems with retro appeal that the Amiga could tap but the hardware needs to be half the price and preferably closer to 1/4 the price of the modern consoles. THEA500 Mini is close in value and price for what is needed but will do much better if and when it goes on sale for 50% off. Retro Games Ltd knows how to drive the hardware price down more and that is with a custom SoC ASIC but they are small and emulation is easier and faster to market.

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matthey 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 3:18:18
#42 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

agami Quote:

Funny and true on many points.
I'm glad I'm not so 1-dimensional.

I, it seems, am an outdated purist adult worshiper in the Vampire Cult, who still likes to play with toys. I'm OK with that, as long as I'm not an elitist snob.


I believe we enjoy similar humor.

agami Quote:

And maybe this is the cult talking, but I'd really like it if you could get over the bad blood (see what I did there) between Gunnar and yourself, and embrace the Vampire for the sake of 68k. The game is bigger than the players.


I never betrayed the project like he suggested with his lies. I have been objective about the project and praised as much about it as I've criticized. I am a tolerant person but I also know where I'm not wanted and move on. The project isn't going anywhere anyway in FPGA. The moment a SoC ASIC is planned, the Apollo Core will require major rework because he planned for and optimized for FPGA only, including the ISA. I don't think he would be looking me up to apologize either. It's more likely that he would try to keep the ISA and sabotage the future of the project. I have much respect for Thomas and Jens but I don't know if Gunnar could be a productive and professional part of a next generation 68k development team. I have trust issues with him based on the lies which is logical considering the lack of morality but again, I'm being objective.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 5:50:01
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 762
From: Unknown

@matthey

AmigaOne is better Amiga than these made by Commodore after ECS.
For decent LCD WinUAE is better solution to play Amiga games than original hardware.

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Trixie 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 6:24:08
#44 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2089
From: Czech Republic

@matthey

Quote:
I am a tolerant person

You are a tolerant person, and you call AmigaOne users "elitist snobs" and their computer od choice "AmigaNone"? Oh how very tolerant!

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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nikosidis 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 7:37:27
#45 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 994
From: Norway, Oslo


If you are talking about the best experience it is for sure original hardware with CRT.

I would recommend A500 with Gotek and some original monitor. 1084 or 1081.






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Nonefornow 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 14:56:07
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 339
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@matthey

Quote:
The CD32 is also easy to use but not sophisticated because there is no game installing with all games running directly from CD. Compare that to today where more than a few PS5 customers complain about the 825GiB SSD being too small (650GiB usable after 115GiB for OS and 60GiB reserved for buffers and updates). Game installs average roughly 100GiB each


OK but, the quality of a game cannot be be measured by the amount of HD it uses. Amigas have a number of quality games that run from a 880KB diskette.

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Hypex 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 17:29:20
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@saimon69

I can somewhat fit in there as well. My A4000 may or may not boot. Mostly may not now though I kmow it has some issue with an IDE device. My A1200 has about three pins broken on the IDE port and I have no idea when it happened. My AmigaOne/XE was fine for a day last week then it all went wrong the day after. My X1000 has been rock solid. So right now FS-UAE would be used for my classic Amiga fix if I need it.

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Hypex 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 17:39:06
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@matthey

As per my post above I have two Amigas that would fit into failing original Amiga hardware with upgrades. An A4000 is not a good choice to move around in a car once a month as things go bump on the ride. An A1200 is better but hard to use with only floppies.

It probably was the right decision to reject the Sam 440 if you've not interested in OS4. I've heard other stories of OS4 machines being offered to a 68k developer and I wonder why. If someone does purely real Amiga 68K stuff, and has never shown any interest in PPC, whay would they want to program for it!?

but

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matthey 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 19-Apr-2022 23:04:40
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

Trixie Quote:

You are a tolerant person, and you call AmigaOne users "elitist snobs" and their computer od choice "AmigaNone"? Oh how very tolerant!


AmigaNG sites like this one used to be filled with elitist arrogant users. The 68k Amiga was looked down upon and people were frequently banned for posts not strongly supporting PPC AmigaNG much like the Vampire cult forum today. I was banned from Amiga.org for talk about a 68k revolution which was a warning about suppression of the larger 68k Amiga community rather than a threat. Perhaps the elitists have been humbled enough to come down out of their lofty positions. The profitability of 68k AmigaOS development only and now THEA500 Mini selling hundreds of thousands of units where AmigaNone hardware sold hundreds of units should be adequately humbling. It's time to have a good laugh about it, remove road blocks to the 68k and start better Amiga cooperation where there is potential. I have never tried to stop anything PPC AmigaNG related though I think it was the wrong direction which was evident after a few years. Sorry, the heart and soul of the Amiga can't be easily replaced and I recognized this early. The importance of full compatibility was underestimated as well.

Jay Miner Quote:

In addition, all present Amiga software is compatible with all Amigas, big and small, old and new. I want to repeat that because I think that is one of the most important features of the Amiga. All present Amiga software is compatible with all Amigas, big and small, old and new. Those two features expandability and compatibility are I think unique in the personal computer industry and in the game industry and a big advantage in both of those fields yet it isn't even advertised.


The History of the Commodore Amiga - Rare Jay Miner Speech AmiExpo 1990
https://youtu.be/n-MqC35aWrQ?t=1026

Nonefornow Quote:

OK but, the quality of a game cannot be be measured by the amount of HD it uses. Amigas have a number of quality games that run from a 880KB diskette.


Absolutely. An Amiga with modern features can hold a huge collection of retro games which is a big advantage. Retro fans would love to have a modernized retro computer with all their favorite games preserved instead of on failing nearly 40 year old hardware and media.

Hypex Quote:

As per my post above I have two Amigas that would fit into failing original Amiga hardware with upgrades. An A4000 is not a good choice to move around in a car once a month as things go bump on the ride. An A1200 is better but hard to use with only floppies.


I haven't used a floppy in many years. Midwest humidity and nearly 40 year old floppies don't mix. We have WHDLoad now although I would prefer to not use it for system friendly software.

Hypex Quote:

It probably was the right decision to reject the Sam 440 if you've not interested in OS4. I've heard other stories of OS4 machines being offered to a 68k developer and I wonder why. If someone does purely real Amiga 68K stuff, and has never shown any interest in PPC, why would they want to program for it!?

but


Some of my development likely benefited the PPC AmigaNG but not enough for me to get a free Sam. The strategy may have been to convert developers like me and if I had accepted it I would have felt like I needed to contribute. It's a good developer conversion strategy which becomes more effective as the price of hardware becomes cheaper. I appreciated the offer but it was not for me.

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V8 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 0:29:49
#50 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 129
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
I've heard other stories of OS4 machines being offered to a 68k developer and I wonder why. If someone does purely real Amiga 68K stuff, and has never shown any interest in PPC, whay would they want to program for it!?

but


I don't think that was a terrible idea at the time. If they were active 68k developers give them a free SAM and maybe they will write some software for it. At least these folks were familiar with the APIs, the development tools, the limitations of the platform. But they knew how to develop for the platform and API because developing for 3.1 was not all that different.
This was actually not a bad idea. It never worked though since at the time TeamOS4 was not exactly friendly towards 68k folks and drove them away

What made no sense at all was to start handing out SAMs to people outside of the amiga community like they did to Spotify. Did they even tell the spotify folks that "yeah, we dont have a debugger, we don't have valgrind and no IDE. Also we are not posix but use an API you have never seen before. We do not have a modern Berkley socket implementation either so you will have to roll your own getaddrinfo() and friends from scratch."
What did they expect would happen?

And what was completely insane was to buy a SAM for someone like Beljxander. Why? In what world did this make sense?

Last edited by V8 on 20-Apr-2022 at 03:39 AM.

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kolla 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 14:54:33
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:
The profitability of 68k AmigaOS development


What?!

The ONLY reason it is “profitable” is because it is done for FREE - if the developers were paid for their work, it would be a long cry from profitable.


Quote:
only and now THEA500 Mini selling hundreds of thousands of units where AmigaNone hardware sold hundreds of units should be adequately humbling.


Where do you get this “hundreds of thousands” from?

Let me tell you about the THEC64 Mini. It was in many stores here, they had lots of them (and other minis) piles sitting there for months and months, prices going down a couple of times too iirc. My kid got one from a friend for xmas 2020. Then when I wanted to buy another one for h4cking reasons, they were suddenly all gone. And when I asked where they had gone, they had been removed because they weren’t selling much and took up space. Where did they go? No idea. So I ended up ordering a second one, and it was expensive and turned out to be NTSC model…

So what about the THEA500 Mini? It is like 3 times the price of THEC64 mini, a tad much for “impulse buyers”, and pricewise in same league as another very similar “mini” system - the Pi400.

Oh, and if “number of games” matters, why not just buy a 30 dollar GS5 Mini with … 1250 or so games built in?

Last edited by kolla on 20-Apr-2022 at 03:18 PM.
Last edited by kolla on 20-Apr-2022 at 03:07 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 19:11:31
#52 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 962
From: Unknown

Quote:

kolla wrote:


Let me tell you about the THEC64 Mini.


Full Ack!

There was a C64DTV it may have had the best C64 chipset in the world (Blitter, ROM Floppy, PS/2 Keyboard) but they never made a real computer out of it.

Retro gaming is not a big business, it's a niche. Successful retro games are not for Amigas or C64s they are games like Minecraft or Monkey Islands and they run on PCs.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 20-Apr-2022 at 07:12 PM.

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matthey 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 20:20:34
#53 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1968
From: Kansas

kolla Quote:

What?!

The ONLY reason it is “profitable” is because it is done for FREE - if the developers were paid for their work, it would be a long cry from profitable.


So you admit that it is profitable. From financial reports, it looks like Hyperion has made "hundreds of thousands" of dollars off 68k AmigaOS development. I suppose you will be disputing this next.

kolla Quote:

Where do you get this “hundreds of thousands” from?


Amigang posted that THEA500 was number one on the Amazon "Best Sellers in PC & Video Games" on launch before dropping to #55 for his post.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44504&forum=2#849847

It is now showing as back up to #38 for me. We don't have exact numbers and it is early but it seems to be selling well and it should sell better at Christmas and when discounted. I expect THEA500 is selling more units on average in a day than AmigaOne has averaged per year to be that high on the list.

kolla Quote:

Let me tell you about the THEC64 Mini. It was in many stores here, they had lots of them (and other minis) piles sitting there for months and months, prices going down a couple of times too iirc. My kid got one from a friend for xmas 2020. Then when I wanted to buy another one for h4cking reasons, they were suddenly all gone. And when I asked where they had gone, they had been removed because they weren’t selling much and took up space. Where did they go? No idea. So I ended up ordering a second one, and it was expensive and turned out to be NTSC model…

So what about the THEA500 Mini? It is like 3 times the price of THEC64 mini, a tad much for “impulse buyers”, and pricewise in same league as another very similar “mini” system - the Pi400.


I agree that THEA500 Mini price is a "tad much" for "impulse buyers" but it is close enough to get some impulse buying. The value is a little lacking as well but the value from the included mouse, joypad and games are also close to what is needed. When discounted, it should hit the mark.

kolla Quote:

Oh, and if “number of games” matters, why not just buy a 30 dollar GS5 Mini with … 1250 or so games built in?


Quality of retro games is likely more important than quantity. The 8 bit retro market is big and some of the games have good playability but the quality including graphics and sound of 16/32 bit games is much better. The early 3D game systems don't look and play as good as the earlier polished 2D systems which often used the 68k CPU.

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kolla 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 20-Apr-2022 23:23:01
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote:
kolla Quote:

What?!

The ONLY reason it is “profitable” is because it is done for FREE - if the developers were paid for their work, it would be a long cry from profitable.


So you admit that it is profitable.


I put quotes there. It's no more profitable than volunteerwork for a non-profit organisation. Is Hyperion running with profits now?

Quote:
From financial reports, it looks like Hyperion has made "hundreds of thousands" of dollars off 68k AmigaOS development. I suppose you will be disputing this next.


Of course makes some money from selling copies of OS3.1.4/3.2, but enough to cover actual cost of development? I very much doubt it. Also their 68k endavour is a costy affair, and nothing goes to the actual development - so where is the profit?

Quote:

kolla Quote:

Where do you get this “hundreds of thousands” from?


Amigang posted that THEA500 was number one on the Amazon "Best Sellers in PC & Video Games" on launch before dropping to #55 for his post.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44504&forum=2#849847


There is no "hundreds of thousands" there,? There is an estimate of somewhere 75.000-100.000 units _produced_ (not sold) _in total_ - notice that 100.000 is by definition a lot less than "hundredS of thousands". And has it sold out anywhere yet? THAT would be an indicator of whether it sells well or not.

Quote:

I agree that THEA500 Mini price is a "tad much" for "impulse buyers" but it is close enough to get some impulse buying. The value is a little lacking as well but the value from the included mouse, joypad and games are also close to what is needed. When discounted, it should hit the mark.


I suspect most of the cost is to cover licensing of the games, so it will be interesting to see how much the price will eventually _can_ drop.

Quote:
Quality of retro games is likely more important than quantity.


I wish that was true, but considering that "the number" is the main thing these retro games collections like to shine, I doubt it.

Quote:
The 8 bit retro market is big and some of the games have good playability but the quality including graphics and sound of 16/32 bit games is much better.

Should be, but quite often isn't - it all boils down to who did it, really.

Quote:
The early 3D game systems don't look and play as good as the earlier polished 2D systems which often used the 68k CPU.


The polish is often lacking, as there often wasn't time and money for it.

And lastly, the typical "mass market" buyer of these mini systems isn't a retro gamers, it's just someone who want a cheap video game unit for some kid. In other words, 3D, 32/16bit, 8bit, 68k, ARM etc. doesn't really matter, what matters is availability, price tag and whether it can fulfill the promise of instant gratification.


Oh... and did you buy one yet?
Or is this too just another "68k amiga" you call pass on, like so much before it?

Last edited by kolla on 20-Apr-2022 at 11:25 PM.

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agami 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 21-Apr-2022 0:37:39
#55 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1637
From: Melbourne, Australia

@kolla

Always getting stuck on the semantics. Perhaps it's a cultural thing: In the anglosphere, it is very common to use turns of phrase and embellishments in everyday conversation, to illustrate a point.

The fact remains that The A500 mini sold more units in the month of April than all AmigaOS 4.x Power ISA (PPC) NG systems since the turn of the millennium.

The main point being illustrated in the above statement is not the actual difference in numbers of units sold, it's to illustrate the difference in marketing philosophies.
- One philosophy was to market high-cost low-quantity PPC successors to the original Amiga, to the deep-pocket nostalgic Amigan
- The other philosophy is to market an affordable high-quantity classic Amiga gaming product, to the average nostalgic Amigan and Amiga gamers of decades past.


There's also a few things you seem to not understand about business:

1. When releasing a product, especially a technology product that is comprised of hardware and software, the pricing strategy for profitability includes the planned pricing reductions to capture different tiers of buyers. When The A500 mini is reduced to $119, then $99 and eventually $79 it is more than likely part of the overall pricing plan for maximizing profits from the initial production run of 75,000 to 100,000 units. In my estimation, when it starts selling at $49 it will be to clear out the remaining stock at $0 profit.

2. Just because a primary resource is free, does not make a product or service any less profitable. Hyperion itself is not profitable, but the sales of updates for Amiga OS 3.x are profitable. Exactly because they pay little to nothing for the development. We can sit here an judge such business practices as deplorable, but that doesn't change the fact that the Amiga OS 3.x upgrades product line is profitable.

_________________
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kolla 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 21-Apr-2022 7:17:32
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2859
From: Trondheim, Norway

@agami

Quote:

The fact remains that The A500 mini sold more units in the month of April than all AmigaOS 4.x Power ISA (PPC) NG systems since the turn of the millennium.


So? I'm sure A1200.net sold more A1200 cases than all "AmigaOS 4.x Power ISA (PPC) NG systems since the turn of the millennium." - there's nothing exciting about that fact.

Quote:
The main point being illustrated in the above statement is not the actual difference in numbers of units sold, it's to illustrate the difference in marketing philosophies.


So "selling in hudreds of thousands" is neither about selling, nor about hundreds of thousands, but just some hyperbole to illustrating a point?

Quote:

There's also a few things you seem to not understand about business:

1. When releasing a product, especially a technology product that is comprised of hardware and software, the pricing strategy for profitability includes the planned pricing reductions to capture different tiers of buyers. When The A500 mini is reduced to $119, then $99 and eventually $79 it is more than likely part of the overall pricing plan for maximizing profits from the initial production run of 75,000 to 100,000 units. In my estimation, when it starts selling at $49 it will be to clear out the remaining stock at $0 profit.


I am fully aware of this, but that is the "simple model". In this case it depends a lot on what agreements they have with the owners of the software they have licensed, which is why I say it will be interesting to see how low they can go.

Quote:

2. Just because a primary resource is free, does not make a product or service any less profitable. Hyperion itself is not profitable, but the sales of updates for Amiga OS 3.x are profitable. Exactly because they pay little to nothing for the development. We can sit here an judge such business practices as deplorable, but that doesn't change the fact that the Amiga OS 3.x upgrades product line is profitable.


This really is turning things on its head - Matthey's point all along has been to illustrate that OS3/68k development is a profitable business that easily can "take over the world" and pull the rug under Linux/ARM in embedded markets. It's just quite typical irony that he uses a Linux/ARM system and OS developed for free by a few (desperate) volunteers as "evidence" for this.

Last edited by kolla on 21-Apr-2022 at 09:10 AM.

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Hypex 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 21-Apr-2022 12:57:50
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@matthey

Quote:
AmigaNG sites like this one used to be filled with elitist arrogant users. The 68k Amiga was looked down upon and people were frequently banned for posts not strongly supporting PPC AmigaNG much like the Vampire cult forum today.


Don't know why that would happen. There would be nothing without the 68k original. That would be like looking down on you parents because they got old and out of touch despite giving you life.

I've generally found AmigaWorld to be balanced. There are the 68k forums and OS4 forums. Some cross over and slinging matches in between but people can be part of either or both camps in their tents.

Quote:
I was banned from Amiga.org for talk about a 68k revolution which was a warning about suppression of the larger 68k Amiga community rather than a threat.


Amiga the org used to be a real 68K place. It was before I stopped looking there. But they changed it so it broke on Amiga browsers and I lost interest.

The other one, Amigans.net, was obviously OS4 through and through from the start, but it does cater to OS4, emulation and 68k.

Quote:
I have never tried to stop anything PPC AmigaNG related though I think it was the wrong direction which was evident after a few years. Sorry, the heart and soul of the Amiga can't be easily replaced and I recognized this early. The importance of full compatibility was underestimated as well.


Wrong direction in what way? The PPC obviously stems from the PPC accelerator cards. It was probably time for OS4 to move on from PPC in 2015 since that marks 20 years PPC has been with the Amiga. And if the original 68K only lasted ten years in the Amiga before Motorola depreciated it it sets a precedent that all CPUs after only have a lifespan of ten years as well. By 2005 PPC was on the chopping block as least on the desktop.

I think one problem had was the hardware got stuck in the mud. Fine when it came out but it stagnated too quickly. Of course the PC was released only a few years before and was quickly established as the only industry standard. Perhaps the Amiga came too late but it was soon displaced by the fast pace of development in the PC world. The Amiga had five years ahead of the competition before they were catching up but wasn't kept moving forward. By the time of the Amiga demise it was over five years behind.

But, even in it's lifetime, with updates to the Amiga it broke compatibility. So easy. Commodore were criticised for updating ROM chips with routines at different addresses. Obviously proving that game developers didn't know how to call simple I/O routines if a game broke, since there was no need to call a ROM routine directly, which made even less sense for a game taking over the system. The OS bootblock runner already provided a free lunch by leaving all registers in place to call on the API with a JSR already. This same attitude of OS hacking is what held the C128 back when they wanted it to clone the C64. The C128 should have been the next big thing but they focused on making it a double C64 instead. Sometimes you need to move on. Compatibility can only go so far as it holds you back after a while. The Amiga chipset had become too complicated for what it produced. The intrinsic 16-bit design was hard to update. The 8-bit depth pixels finalised in AGA were too slow to manage and too narrow by the end of it.

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I haven't used a floppy in many years. Midwest humidity and nearly 40 year old floppies don't mix. We have WHDLoad now although I would prefer to not use it for system friendly software.


With a broken IDE port and no autoboot credit card I need to use floppies on my A1200. Plus floppies are useful for data transfer. Such as between my A4000 and a PC via USB floppy.

Quote:
Some of my development likely benefited the PPC AmigaNG but not enough for me to get a free Sam. The strategy may have been to convert developers like me and if I had accepted it I would have felt like I needed to contribute. It's a good developer conversion strategy which becomes more effective as the price of hardware becomes cheaper. I appreciated the offer but it was not for me.


Yes, that would be one of the reasons, to contribute. It's wasn't a free offer as free comes with obligations. Though, at times some developers are interested widening their scope, and having the hardware to test with does help. Such as crashes that are hard to know if it's the code or if OS4 has a bug or incompatibility. I ran some of my 68k stuff and it crashed on later releases. It turned out I had missed a step in a DOS call when I thought I had followed the instructions. And has some quirks I and others have missed. For example, OpenFromLock() releases the lock, and if you missed the note like I have then code will be faulty. On 68K this will go unnoticed but could trash memory. On OS4, depending on filesystem (like FFS or SFS), this could be drastic. Either a crash or a system freeze. But at least you know something is wrong. On OS3 even, such code will run loose, with no indication. Unfortunately AmigaOS on 68K lacked the MMU that OS4 has which can trap bade code. For this reason a lot of buggy code was never discovered. Until it was too late if it was caught out at all.

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We don't have exact numbers and it is early but it seems to be selling well and it should sell better at Christmas and when discounted. I expect THEA500 is selling more units on average in a day than AmigaOne has averaged per year to be that high on the list.


That's easy to see. The Mini is cheaper and comes in a case. And targets the A500 crowd. The AmigaOne had no case. No real branding of any kind. And targetting those who wanted to continue using an updated AmigaOS on faster hardware with built in 68k compatibility. There are more people interested in an Amiga past than an Amiga future.

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Hypex 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 21-Apr-2022 13:22:34
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@V8

Quote:
I don't think that was a terrible idea at the time. If they were active 68k developers give them a free SAM and maybe they will write some software for it. At least these folks were familiar with the APIs, the development tools, the limitations of the platform. But they knew how to develop for the platform and API because developing for 3.1 was not all that different. This was actually not a bad idea. It never worked though since at the time TeamOS4 was not exactly friendly towards 68k folks and drove them away


Sounds like cutting off their nose despite their face. Yes OS4 was a similar enough platform. But those interfaces made it annoying and more complicated.

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What made no sense at all was to start handing out SAMs to people outside of the amiga community like they did to Spotify. Did they even tell the spotify folks that "yeah, we dont have a debugger, we don't have valgrind and no IDE. Also we are not posix but use an API you have never seen before. We do not have a modern Berkley socket implementation either so you will have to roll your own getaddrinfo() and friends from scratch." What did they expect would happen?


They sent one to Spotify? What on earth?

While it's good to have working services I can't see the point of sending a Sam to Spoitify. If they have no idea what Amiga even is. Does it really matter if it can't be used on OS4? Says the guy who doesn't even stream on his laptop. I play music in the car for now and that's doesn't Spotify either.

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And what was completely insane was to buy a SAM for someone like Beljxander. Why? In what world did this make sense?


He had big plans. Such as a WINE for OS4 simulator. That's bigger than I would tackle. Too technical and hard for one guy to write even doing it full time. Last I checked he was working on USB 3 drivers which is a good idea. If I had a USB 3 card I would have done some testing.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 21-Apr-2022 20:32:42
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Hypex

Quote:
He had big plans. Such as a WINE for OS4 simulator.


maybe better idea is not reinventing the wheel. We already have good emulation CPU for DOSBOX, with JIT support for PowerPC, that’s what I use, if wanted to mess around with that experiment.

What looked like was he was promote his unrealistic projects to gain, reputation and be able to be funded from bounties, for some people this looked more like a scam, because he provided no evidence that he was able to deliver on his promises.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Apr-2022 at 11:03 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 21-Apr-2022 at 08:35 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: What system is best for anyone that want to get into Amiga games?
Posted on 22-Apr-2022 17:00:30
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
maybe better idea is not reinventing the wheel. We already have good emulation CPU for DOSBOX, with JIT support for PowerPC, that?s what I use, if wanted to mess around with that experiment.


Really? DOSBOX has JIT? Didn't know it was that advanced.

But the WINE idea would have been cool. Transparent loading of x86 Windows apps from Workbench. Windows style windows on the Workbench! But of course that's a lot of work. At the end of the day it's cheaper to run Windows apps on a real PC and it's faster. And of course the point of an OS4 machine is to avoid Windows

Quote:
What looked like was he was promote his unrealistic projects to gain, reputation and be able to be funded from bounties, for some people this looked more like a scam, because he provided no evidence that he was able to deliver on his promises.


That's the crux of the issue. Promises against deliverance. I'd prefer to keep it to myself until I have any proof of concept. And even then if you have a working idea people can get excited. But you still need to keep the pace and put the time into it otherwise if it stalls to much and sometimes years people will just give up and move on.

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