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PosterThread
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 20:33:52
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12290
From: Norway

@BigD

Quote:
This is a bad comparison.


yeh, but not because what you wrote, the person who is working on sysinfo refuse to fix bug, as result program is locked to UAE, you don’t buy a AmigaONE to run software in EUAE. That stupid, because you can do that on your 10/20 year old PC running Windows. Why get Pi400 when you can use an old PC? Computers like The500mini is useless that way, but guess they look better in living room.

The point of AmigaONE system is to bring 680x0 software to AmigaOS4.1, and to write new software, this where software is many times more efficient, because while program is emulated or translated the libraries are native PowerPC libraries. And running 680x0 on Petunia, also does not deal with emulating AGA or CIAA/CIAB or Paula, so don’t have that overhead. This must main point of this hardware and OS.

Of cause if your hobby is to play OCS/AGA games and demos, you don’t care if its AmigaOS 1.3 or OS2.0/3.0 or 3.2, you will not need a AmigaONE run the latest SDK, or want a AmigaONE, it’s simply not the right hardware for you.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 20:50:22
#62 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12290
From: Norway

@BigD

Of cause, there is another point to be made about SysInfo, beside info.d0.se developer does care about bug reports, and is not willing get help to fix the program.

Is that score is unreliable, WinUAE jit compiler is know for removing or useless busy loop codes, and result is insane results. The JIT compilers EUAE and WinUAE are not same, but result can be unreliable. Doing some real work, like finding prime numbers, or rending a fractal, render a image, unpack a file, and so are real world benchmarks that gives a more real results.

The score is also really narrow, it does test FPU, it only test the CPU, it does test graphics, it does not benchmark memory.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2022 at 08:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2022 at 08:51 PM.

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 20:50:59
#63 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6497
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

It's not the right hardware for me because it's generally unavailable and the X5000/40 is only available on request and may be end of line on release! Poor investment just to open and close Amiga Workbench windows IMHO!!!@

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 22:02:26
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12290
From: Norway

@BigD

Quote:
ailable on request and may be end of line on release!


Everything will end, nothing last for every, you don't buy it to pleace anyone.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 03-Aug-2022 at 10:03 PM.

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redfox 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 22:07:58
#65 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1967
From: Canada

@Neuf

Thanks for your reply. It makes sense that AEON would continue to support the X5000.

Meanwhile, I am under no illusions regarding the MicroA1. No one is interested in supporting these old systems. I am very lucky that mine has continued to survive after all these years.


redfox

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Matt3k 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 23:46:05
#66 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 85
From: NY

@redfox

Congrats on your system! Hope it keeps running well for you.

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Matt3k 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 3-Aug-2022 23:50:08
#67 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 85
From: NY

@BigD


"It's not the right hardware for me because it's generally unavailable and the X5000/40 is only available on request and may be end of line on release! Poor investment just to open and close Amiga Workbench windows IMHO!!!@"

After a bit of research I have to agree. My powermac 2.3 I bought for a few hundred with a 1950 runs much faster according to what I have been reading. Surprised really, thought the X5000 would have been equal or better given the newer technology. Altivec seems to play a role in the difference as well. Oh well, keep what I got I guess...

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OlafS25 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 9:43:17
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6134
From: Unknown

@Neuf

there are two reasons why Amigaos on RPi not happens... Hyperion has no developers and is not willing to pay people for ports, the other way round they expect someone else to pay them to port it. And Trevor D. has invested a lot of money in Tabor that he wants to rearn or at least minimze losses. He will certainly not support any ports to ARM.

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 11:46:02
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6497
From: UK

@OlafS25

And yet Trevor's other main partner AmigaKit are now reluctant to stock Hyperion products even OEM with A-EON hardware! Conflicting business strategies or what!!! This lack of clear messaging is killing the AmigaOne platform with or without SMP or ISA change! There is simply no confidence in the future timeline of AmigaOne hardware releases and hence in the longevity of the current line! This is also because...

A) No AmigaOne hardware is currently available in the UK.
B) The hardware available from Amedia France has been described as 'end of line' in some quarters! Therefore, no consumer confidence to buy the newly released (to consumer users) X5000/40 despite it being moderately exciting and SMP being nearly ready!
C) Current CPUs in use in ALL AmigaOne machines are no longer supported by NXP!

What's next A-EON? Worst case scenario; will the 200No. A1222 Plus machines you are considering ordering from the prototype sourced factory be out by Christmas 2023 if placed today?

Last edited by BigD on 04-Aug-2022 at 11:47 AM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 12:54:50
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2039
From: Australia

Because open source is the only way for Amiga-noid systems to grow beyond a very small niche and because it only trades blows in advantages between other Amiga-noid systems.

The Amiga and clone community will continue to move forward at a snails pace, and have very limited hardware support unless there's the ability for developers to jump onboard at a whim.
Closed source, controlled development point blank will not result in the system staying anything other than retro.
Nothing wrong with that, and its a perfectly valid choice within the current Amiga ecosystem, but at the same time going MOS solves nothing. It's just another archaic system that continues to fall further and further behind the rest of the computing world.

And before inclined people have the knee-jerk "aha - gotcha" type response about AROS being open source and not having received mass adoption, yes, that's correct. Im not disputing that.
That doesnt make the fact open source is the only way for any Amiga-noid system to close the gap between what it is and the rest of the computing world and receive any sort of adoption other than those that already exist inside the community (plus a handful of others here and there).

If people enjoy MOS, then great. I have a g4 eMac and use it from time to time as well, but it solves nothing. It's just another Amiga derived product destined to remain relatively stagnant.

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tlosm 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 12:57:30
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2724
From: Amiga land

@BigD

you forgot the write the X5000/40 today is more slow in computing compared a RasperryPi 4

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 13:24:55
#72 ]
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Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 959
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

tlosm wrote:

you forgot the write the X5000/40 today is more slow in computing compared a RasperryPi 4


BUT IT HAS THE EXTREMELY POWERFUL AND USEFUL XENA CHIP!!!!
Thousands of Euro well spent.





/mega

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 14:04:14
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6497
From: UK

@tlosm

I wouldn't know because I've never seen one and am unlikely to if there are only around 40 intended for retail! Considering all the beta testing and SMP efforts now coming to fruition that seems mad! But I guess we've reached a point where it would be cheaper for Trevor to give every remaining AmigaOS user £500 than to plough on selling X5000s or developing a follow up using the T4080 CPU or similar?! A bit like the point Alan Redhouse got to at Eyetech at the end of the initial AmigaOne experiment!

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Matt3k 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 14:08:02
#74 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 85
From: NY



I have heard the AROS is the future for well over 20 years and from my experience during that time MorphOS is the only one moving forward at a decent click, adding hardware, OS versions, and most vitally killer applications. So historical and currently speaking MorphOS to me seems like the future with an active community and development. I would imagine that IF the MorphOS team wants to toss in the towel in 20 years they would do the right thing with the community. AROS is a fine option, but they seem to be in the same place as the other Amiga options where focus is narrowly focused on improving the OS.

From my experience paying for MOS for multiple machines has provided the best and enjoyable experience. MOS solved all my business issues and allows me to actually run a business on it at a very high level, that would simply be near impossible on all the systems (Believe me I actually tried). So MorphOS for me solved many relevant and current issues that aren't possible anywhere else in Amiga land...

Last edited by Matt3k on 04-Aug-2022 at 02:31 PM.
Last edited by Matt3k on 04-Aug-2022 at 02:25 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 14:58:47
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2262
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote:
Because open source is the only way for Amiga-noid systems..... but it solves nothing. It's just another Amiga derived product destined to remain relatively stagnant.


Just as small cut and your post makes 100% sense.

Nothing "Amiga" will solve anything and everything "Amiga" is destined for stagnation. And thats the way it has been for 10 years (some may even say 20 or 30 years).

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Kronos 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 15:06:25
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2262
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:

C) Current CPUs in use in ALL AmigaOne machines are no longer supported by NXP!



Everything PPC (except IBM's Power) has been EOL/legacy-mode for over 10 years and "NameOfTheWeek".inc (Motorola,Freescale....) hasn't released a proper new CPU/core for 20 years (or more).

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 18:03:07
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6497
From: UK

@Kronos

Yeah, but now these CPUs are 'officially' unsupported and that doesn't engender confidence in the platform. A quick AmigaOS port to the Open PPC laptop on its release would be a good stop gap IMHO but a stop gap to what?

Last edited by BigD on 04-Aug-2022 at 06:04 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 18:17:58
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2262
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
A quick AmigaOS port to the Open PPC laptop on its release


a) thats a decade in the making (and will be another one at it's current pace)

b) the SoC used there is just as dead as anything else PPC

c) just reshell a G4 PowerBook, maybe even with a better screen, less effort, better results

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BigD 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 19:34:26
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6497
From: UK

@Kronos

At least we'll get a useful machine. I don't see the Amiga resellers stocking up on Rabbit Hole configured x86-64 laptops (though I'd have liked one pre-configured) so the demand must be for 'real' AmigaNG laptops not emulation.

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Neuf 
Re: MOS?
Posted on 4-Aug-2022 19:50:04
#80 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 46
From: Unknown

@BigD
The comparison between the a1222 and the Pi400 is entirely valid in my opinion.The Pi400 exists and only prototypes exist of the latest A1222+. However, there are lots of older boards sent out. The performance difference between the old boards and the new boards is probably minuscule. Another person has commented that Sysinfo is locked into UAE. He calls it a bug--I don't. In my opinion using UAE in this way levels the playing field.

In real world testing our team considers the RPi as good as anything out there for running classic software. Unfortunately, we are at this time unable to test OS4 software. We could probably run OS4 classic but that would be run on emulation. One of the members of our team has a SAM 460. Running classic software it blows TheSAM away.. The RPI4 has got good graphics. The A1222 would probably need the latest Enhancer software and a pretty good Graphics card to be better.

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