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      /  Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year! :-)
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agami 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 1:01:59
#101 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1211
From: Melbourne, Australia

@OlafS25

Quote:
People who use AmigaOS or MorphOS will not change platform anyway.

They might when there is no more hardware for their OS.
Besides, do people run an OS or do they run apps written for an OS? Sure, the OS is responsible for the backbone of the app running experience, but there's only so much one can customize their desktop look and arrange their folders and icons.

If Amiga OS 3.2 or AROS 68k advance to the point that they are functionally and visually identical to AmigaOS 4, running on a super-fast CLR on affordable and available hardware, unless they're PPC zealots I'd think quite a few of them will mosey on over. Port the popular MorphOS apps over, and a good chunk of those should follow suit.


Quote:
And the people mostly interested in traditional amigas (68k) will not use it anyway.

Here you are possibly referring to those game and demo developers who get their kicks from working with retro hardware limitations. These are a minority.

If the Apollo Team and RetroGames Ltd have shown us anything, it's that the people who are "mostly interested in traditional Amigas (68k)" are a large and diverse group. Including subgroups who are very much interested in improved productivity apps on 68k to take advantage of faster 080 and AMMX.

Turn that up to 11 with the JIT 68k CLR and Wayfarer 68k becomes a reality.


Quote:
And the "outsiders" are not interested in 68k anyway.

Nor should they be. Very few developers out there, on any platform, care about the underlying CPU architecture. They care about the development environment and user-base. Can a 68k CLR ecosystem grow to the point where new development tools and SDKs are available, and there is a substantial growth in its user-base? Definitely not if it never gets started.


Quote:
More important will be the merge between Aros and Linux. That will offer new opportunities.

Yes, you are well documented as a fan of this stream. I too like what is happening in this area with AxRuntime and the possibilities beyond. But to say that it is "more important" sounds more like subjective opinion than objective analysis.

It might see some new outsider interest in the short term, but it mostly adds to the fragmentation of the post-Amiga landscape. Whereas going back to create a high performance 68k option, one capable of running all the old favourites, capable of receiving ports of current PPC wares, and encouraging future development, the JIT 68k works to bridge some of the fractures, and in the long run actually grow the user-base.

Last edited by agami on 25-Oct-2022 at 07:35 AM.

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agami 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 1:30:16
#102 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1211
From: Melbourne, Australia

@V8

Quote:
V8 wrote:

Who is asking for OS4 SW to be backported to 68k? And why?
Almost all OS4 SW is just quick and dirty ports of open source Linux games and small apps anyway. Though they live in private repos and almost never contribute the changes back upstream or take reviews of their patchsets.
If you want to run Linux SW, why not just run Linux?

If a modern m68, asic or in software, materializes. What OS4 software would anyone in that market be interested in instead of just porting the original linux sw from scratch?

Is there really any ppc os4 software out there that the community cares about or wants to keep?
I think not. Any and all amiga software that people care about are m68k.

You raise an excellent and important point. Though I think that the backporting is mostly applicable to OS advancements, as Hyperion has already done some of these with Amiga OS 3.2 et al.

Nevertheless, I certainly don't care about anything that is exclusively running on AmigaOS 4. And apart from maybe the porting work being a bit easier for the original porter/developer, porting directly from a popular open source project to the 68k CLR would work just as well.

And just because some open source software, made popular on Linux, is a good alternative for the lacking native Amiga software, does not mean we are happy to put up with Linux to use it.

I run Krita, Inkscape, Libre Office, Obsidian, Firefox, VLC, Handbrake, UAE, on my Windows, macOS, and Linux systems, and in the absence of some cool new Amiga apps I would certainly like to run those on the improved Amiga OS 3.x or AROS 68k on a fast 68k CLR running on cost-effective x86-64 hardware.


As to whether there is some AmigaOS 4 software out there that some people really care about, and would not leave that platform until that software was made available on the new platform, well that sounds like a Poll question to me.

Though pointing out to AmigaOS 4 users that ultimately they have no unique AmigaOS 4 software, is not likely to go over well.

Last edited by agami on 25-Oct-2022 at 01:37 AM.

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kolla 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 4:50:25
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2379
From: Trondheim, Norway

@OlafS25

Amithlon also runs native x86 binaries buildt for Amithlon.

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cdimauro 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 5:09:20
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:

68K would be base accepted CPU code that needs to run on every thing. But would OS4 code backported to 68K work well?

Sure. The original platform has nothing missing from the new ports/rewritings.

RTG, AHI, virtual memory, very limited memory protection were already born with the Amiga o.s..
Quote:
The 68K code would be made more complicated as it would then have all these interfaces opening along with libraries.

Please, NO! The Amiga o.s. was born without interfaces and with the ubiquitous concept of "one library (interface) to dominate them all".

It's good to have the additional features that were introduced on the new platforms, but interfaces are certainly NOT needed neither welcome (since they introduced a strong fork of the platform for developers).
Quote:
I thought PPC code would be better to base some CLR on as it's simple compared to 68K. 68K being CISC has codes of variable sizes. PPC being RISC means each code is one length and most codes, like Amiga copper codes, are 16 bit instruction and 16 bit data so easier to work with.

True, but the reality is that the vast majority of code is for 68k. And most of it is without sources.

PowerPC applications are mostly ports and I'm not aware of existing killer apps.

So, it makes much more sense to use 68k as the Lingua Franca for the Amiga & post-Amiga worlds.
Quote:
The idea has been put to use since Amithlon, which was in existence while OS4 was still WIP. I recall when Amithlon came out Amiga people I knew wanted them to dump the OS4 port and make Amithlon as the official OS4 solution. I disagreed, because Amithlon was an AmigaOS emulator, that didn't update or improve the OS itself. It was a nice idea, but running only OS friendly apps on an old OS that got older, wasn't a via solution to me. The point of OS4 was a native OS and moving it forward. But people can run OS3.2 now in Amithlon and finally have an updated AmigaOS. Still, given a core feature of Amithlon was native x86 apps which so far no UAE has implemented yet, I wonder how x86 native code could actually run under an opposite endian OS. If Amithlon could allow native LE code to run with an emulated BE OS, then perhaps running LE code with a BE OS is actually easy enough to do after all.

Of course.
Quote:
But is the opposite still impossible to achieve? A LE OS running BE code? What is AROS doing wrong by failing to do the opposite, run BE code on the LE OS transparently?

As I've said, it's not possible.
Quote:
I thought by now that AROS would have support for native Amithlon binaries on x86. Then eventually support for 68K binaries. But so far I've not not seen any of those happen. Perhaps that's the show stopper.

AROS used Janus-UAE for those cases.

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cdimauro 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 5:12:05
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3097
From: Germany

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:

Here you are possibly referring to those game and demo developers who get their kicks from working with retro hardware limitations. These are a minority.

If the Apollo Team and RetroGames Ltd have shown us anything, it's that the people who are "mostly interested in traditional Amigas (68k)" are a large and diverse group. Including subgroups who are very much interested in improved productivity apps on 68k to take advantage of faster 080 and AMMX.

Turn that up to 11 with the JIT 68k CLR and Wayfarer 68k becomes a reality.

Nor should they be. Very few developers out there, on any platform, care about the underlying CPU architecture. They care about the development environment and user-base. Can a 68k CLR ecosystem grow to the point where new development tools and SDKs are available, and there is a substantial growth in its user-base? Definitely not if it never gets started.


"All the way, with 68k" (cit.)

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Karlos 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 9:04:22
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3375
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

So there are two separate issues being discussed here

1. Use of a 68K CLR. This is an entirely achievable goal. I can write a system friendly 68k application today and generally it will "just work" on a compatible 68K, FPGA, Emu68K, UAE, OS4 and MorphOS. The last 4 of those all support JIT.

What is needed for this to move forwards are a set of interoperability standards. You can have the base specification that anything written for will be CLR compatible, and extensions that are platform specific that can be tested for by a binary and used if present but are not mandatory. Otherwise you'll always get the "but it doesn't use awesome feature X for Y on my machine!"

2. Backporting a PPC NG OS to the CLR standard. This is where people get precious. However the basic suggestion is sound enough if a CLR spec already exists. The theory goes that you have a bare metal native kernel and HAL with the CLR compliant JIT embedded into it in a system that just presents itself as a monster 68K. You then recompile all OS components. One of the CLR extensions to this implementation is native code support to allow performance critical bits to be as efficient as possible.

This may not appeal to PPC users because it will seem less efficient than the whole thing being native, even if it is just as responsive.

However, the brutal truth is that they are a dying breed. Figuratively (and literally, I mean we're not getting any younger) as there's little new PPC HW coming out. On the flipside, x64 and AArch64 are legion.

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Hypex 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 13:32:58
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10883
From: Greensborough, Australia

@cdimauro

Quote:

Because they can do it from the performance/drawn power PoV.


Although they've customised it and called it "Apple Silicon" they don't have the control over it like with PowerPC. Apple managed to control desktop PowerPC and hijack it from other vendors until the end. The XE G4 was delayed because Apple took priority shipment of G4 CPUs. When they give up PPC they suspiciously kill off the P.A.Semi line and almose killed off the X1000 in the process. With ARM they can customise but they can't hijack it away from other markets.

Quote:
I don't see why the endianess is a problem with any o.s., OS4 included.


It's built directly off the 68K structures so has some dependence on it. They may have depreciated 68K specific functions but 68K is still tightly wound into it, not only in internal objects and other data types, but things like a an emulated 68K interrupt are actually ran in the PowerPC native supervisor mode. I think that's a level too far. Some Exec data is hidden but it needs more closing up where data objects are still exposed. Also, the old objects are word aligned, so not good for PowerPC that like long alignments which is also a good reason to replace them.

Quote:
Unless Petunia is mandatory to have it ported as well.


No, it would need to be replaced. It's PPC only. Both BlackBox and Petunia.

BlackBox is the apparent name of the static 68K emulator built into Exec. Perhaps it was a Ride on Time?

Easiest would be writing a new one or porting over an existing one to replace both. Since both 68K and PPC support would be expected. A PPC emulator could cover both and emulate PPC while an emulated Petunia could do 68K, but 68K emulators are faster at present.

Quote:
Same as above: I don't see why this could block a port to any other architecture. It should be possible to rewrite it.


They've managed to create a structure with an interrupt context that is fully PPC dependant. It has no space for a CPU type which would have allowed expansion. So it's harder to write portable code that needs to switch to another object manually. Or more awkward. There's also some PPC specific functions in there. So there's more dependencies to crack. Realistically the current API would need to be depreciated as a whole and replaced for true portability. It just doesn't need rewriting, it needs replacing in my mind, to be portable.

Quote:
Here is it: Efficiently Migrate Byte-Order-Sensitive Applications


That's interesting. I like the way they consider big endian to be a legacy endian. Little endian is still a legacy endian, but it's in common use, so they don't call it that. Of course, apart from code, there is big endian data like network objects and others. I read talk online of how everything should be converted to little endian. I disagree if it's just to force it into a popular data endian and not for any practical use. Network packets make sense since it has a dotted quad, so made sense to have four bytes in order. In any case modern CPUs can deal with it easily, if people want to read four bytes as a long word, and in that case they can be on their own.

It is working the opposite way to my idea. Working with big endian data in a little endian code model. Since my idea is to keep big endian data and restrict code to big endian read/writes. If the compiler still exists the OS4 team can give it a go. The endian extensions should be in every compiler now and GCC.

Quote:
BTW, this compiler was developed by the general site manager were I was employed.


Nice one. Now they only need the big endian version to port browsers and other little endian order code. To OS4.

Quote:
Supported components would be needed, like with AROS.


Yes, that would be the prime reference. I imagine a PC with UBoot. Or it won't boot OS4.

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pixie 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 18:20:40
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2802
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Karlos

Sorry for my ignorance but I keep hearing CPL again and again but for the life of me I cannot get what it means.

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Karlos 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 18:47:32
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3375
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@pixie

Sever different variations all really referring to the same thing

Common Low-level Runtime
Common Language Runtime

Essentially, for other "virtual machines" like .net or java, the combination of the bytecode executor and expected runtime libraries and support.

In our context, a subset of the 680x0 instruction set that is efficient to execute on real CPUs or under emulation, combined with some reference set of libraries and so on.

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pixie 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 19:41:39
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2802
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Karlos

In hindsight it actually makes sense! Thanks for the clarification

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matthey 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 21:59:45
#111 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1684
From: Kansas

Karlos Quote:

This may not appeal to PPC users because it will seem less efficient than the whole thing being native, even if it is just as responsive.

However, the brutal truth is that they are a dying breed. Figuratively (and literally, I mean we're not getting any younger) as there's little new PPC HW coming out. On the flipside, x64 and AArch64 are legion.


Didn't Trevor mention that he didn't want the Amiga to use "PC" hardware and emulation? His actions have it headed exactly in that direction and he refuses to change course.

PPC/AmigaNOne failures

o Trevor announced A1222 production of 200 boards only. The NXP P1022 CPU is old and a bastard without a standard PPC FPU or SIMD unit. The e500v2 core was not popular due to the bastardization and was replaced by the e500mc that went back to the standard PPC FPU while compiler support was quickly dropped for it. What other CPU has 64 bit GP integer registers without supporting 64 bit addressing? Only in Amiga land is it possible for us to have two of these oddities as this is true of the Apollo core as well. The e500v2 has a frontside L2 with a 23 cycle latency while later designs with a backside L2 had a 12 cycle latency. The ancient 68060 has no return/link stack but the e500v2 also has no link stack. This CPU is significantly different than older AIM designs at the supervisor level. All this makes the bastard CPU a nightmare for developers to support which is obvious from the long support process. Trevor was talking like the CPUs cost is up 400% but instead of unloading this mistake he goes into production. The whole point of a low end PPC CPU is to lower the hardware price and test the waters for higher production runs but this hardware is like the Amiga 600 mistake that ended up too expensive and less compatible than an Amiga 500 (a major contributor to killing CBM). The P1022 CPU is now much more expensive and in limited supplies. How can the original strategy work with this hardware?

o Previous PPC/AmigaNOne hardware was likely produced in batches of 50-500 and Trevor talked at the show about how they were often not profitable and had to be subsidized. PPC AmigaNOne hardware has been market failures for about 2 decades which is nearly twice as long as CBM produced the Amiga. At least the 68k Amiga had successful Amiga products. Has any PPC/AmigaNOne hardware ever been profitable?

o Hyperion had to be financially backed and bailed out by Trevor to keep producing PPC AmigaOS 4 which was unprofitable. Hyperion chose to stop producing AmigaOS 4 despite the subsidizing as Ben lost faith and/or realized he couldn't count on Trevor's financial help anymore after stealing from him. How could Ben recoup the cost of AmigaOS 4 development without Trevor support?

68k Amiga signs of mass production potential

o Retro Games Ltd. released THEA500 Mini which was far up on Amazon's UK top computer products sales list despite having no Amiga branding, no functional case, no AmigaOS and not being as cheap as originally planned using a custom Amiga ASIC. Michele Battilana, who may have inside knowledge of sales, talks about a more niche market Amiga Maxi product selling hundreds of thousands of units. Also, Michele claims to have signed over 20 Amiga license agreements.

o Gunnar von Boehn has claimed 10k Vampire/Apollo core units sold which is a reasonable claim.

o The Natami "MX Bringup Thread" had 761,487 views last time I looked.

o There are at least 4 big box Amiga 68060 accelerator cards that support clock speeds of 100+MHz. I saw 3/4 of them on display at the Amiga37 in Germany in a walk through video that only covered about half the tables. Retro 68k Amiga hardware was very strong at the show which some say had over 2000 attendees.

o Hyperion stopped the unprofitable PPC AmigaOS 4 development and moved to a larger and more profitable Amiga market with 68k AmigaOS development. While sales numbers are unknown, financial statements are evidence that suggests 68k AmigaOS sales have turned around Hyperion's decline and allowed Hyperion to survive being "nuked from orbit". This is far from the "half a million euro" debt that Hyperion once had. Ben would rather risk being "nuked from orbit" by aggressively challenging Amiga IP owned by others than try to make it with PPC AmigaOS 4.

Several references used can be found at the following site.

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/

It looks to me like Trevor and Ben conspired to steal and defraud others of Amiga IP/assets primarily for Trevor's selfish rare bastard Amiga collection and Ben's greedy pocket. They continue to block legit Amiga development and projects for the retro 68k Amiga that could avoid using PCs and emulation.

Last edited by matthey on 25-Oct-2022 at 10:07 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 22:06:51
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3375
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@matthey

Quote:
Didn't Trevor mention that he didn't want the Amiga to use "PC" hardware and emulation?


Well if that quote is true, it must be depressing for him to consider that other than the PowerPC, every other component in the system is "PC" hardware and the only way original Amiga software runs is via emulation.

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matthey 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 22:45:58
#113 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1684
From: Kansas

Karlos Quote:

Well if that quote is true, it must be depressing for him to consider that other than the PowerPC, every other component in the system is "PC" hardware and the only way original Amiga software runs is via emulation.


It's not a quote. I was paraphrasing. In the Amiga37 video, Trevor acted like he wanted a real hardware option and that the growing retro enthusiasm would somehow translate to PPC hardware sales. PPC Amigas are missing the heart (68k) and soul (chipset) of the Amiga though. All that remains is a facade of the Amiga which is not good enough for retro Amiga users. Many of us want more modern Amiga hardware but we don't want incompatible bastardization with an Amiga label slapped on to increase sales. More compatible Amiga hardware that pays homage to the original could be produced cheaply and there is a chance that there is enough demand to be mass produced. How can he be so oblivious that he recognizes the growing retro Amiga enthusiasm but still blocks it while trying to push the same bastard PPC hardware he has been pushing for 2 decades? How can he ignore hundreds of thousands of potential customers to appeal to hundreds?

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number6 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 25-Oct-2022 23:12:17
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11467
From: In the village

@matthey

If you see things being done that don't make sense...

Perhaps there is something in signed agreements and/or contracts that would illustrate a limitation as to what the entities can do?

#6

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 0:22:04
#115 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:
matthey candidly wondered:

How can he be so oblivious that he recognizes the growing retro Amiga enthusiasm but still blocks it while trying to push the same bastard PPC hardware he has been pushing for 2 decades? How can he ignore hundreds of thousands of potential customers to appeal to hundreds?


That, friend Matthey,
is the very symptom & definition of evil.

When someone who's not certifiably stupid,
does something obtuse,
that deals damage to others - physical, financial, moral.

That's evil.

NEVER FORGET


(Image below - copyright Petah)







/MEGA!

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agami 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 0:23:03
#116 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1211
From: Melbourne, Australia

@number6

Quote:
number6 wrote:
@matthey

If you see things being done that don't make sense...

Perhaps there is something in signed agreements and/or contracts that would illustrate a limitation as to what the entities can do?

#6

Except in this case it makes perfect sense when viewed through the lenses of self-interest, ego, and superego.

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Hammer 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 1:10:06
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4611
From: Australia

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@Hans

Quote:
I personally prefer the idea of ARM over x86 for a different reason. Going x86 when everyone else (Incl. Apple & Microsoft) are transitioning to ARM sounds like a great way to choose yet another soon to be on the decline CPU architecture.


I think this brings up an interesting point we need to consider. When PowerPC was chosen it was the new kid on the block and going places. Apple helped to cement it as a desktop CPU and embedded designs suitable for use in various devices like washing machines and TV were created. It even ended up in space! And had a stint in game consoles for one generation. With the 88000 in decline the PPC was a suitable 68K replacement. What could go wrong? Apple abandoned it just after the XE came out and then it disappeared from the desktops.

Could the same happen to ARM? Right now ARM is established and years have passed since it was the NKOTB. Well, reinvention really, since it started small as desktop RISC at the time of the Amiga and in particular the A3000.

What if OS4 is ported to ARM, then, just like PPC , ARM falls out of favour some time later? And x86/xxx takes it's place once again? It was a nice ride but, as Moore's unofficial law states, you simply cannot beat x86. Which has has embedded variants for years.

This doesn't seem likely since ARM is where PPC should be. And it looks like they gave up. Perhaps they could have tried harder with getting PPC RISC into markets that wasn't Apple, but they didn't and even the in the non-Apple embedded markets it died. It did drive a few cars around.

So, my point is, OS4 could be ported to ARM, then ten years later it too falls out of favour. Then we have the same people that said PPC was a mistake saying, oh porting to ARM was a mistake. Now Apple have gone back to Intel again. Why didn't they go x86 with OS4 like we said they should? They repeated the same mistake they did on PPC. They ported to a CPU that wasn't Intel which is just stupid. If they wanted to a CPU with three letters they should have gone AMD!

With Emu68's bare metal Transmeta-like concept, the CPU hardware change without affecting the ground-zeroing the Amiga 68K ecosystem in both apps and OS.

Translation has overheads, but Apple's M1 has 8 (RISC) instruction issues per cycle capability and deep 600 instructions reorder buffer. ARM ISA follows atomic arithmetic, load, and store instructions. Apple Rosetta 2 doesn't support 256-bit AVX.

Intel Golden Cove has 6 (CISC) instruction issues per cycle capability with 512 instructions reorder buffer and 8 instructions retire per cycle. X86 has complex fused instruction that acts like instruction compression.



Last edited by Hammer on 26-Oct-2022 at 01:12 AM.

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Hans 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 1:27:30
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4993
From: New Zealand

@matthey

Quote:
o Trevor announced A1222 production of 200 boards only.

He also said they bought 2000 P1022 CPUs. 200 boards is about the size of a production run. I'm sure they'll make more provided there's a demand.

Quote:
It looks to me like Trevor and Ben conspired to steal and defraud others of Amiga IP/assets primarily for Trevor's selfish rare bastard Amiga collection and Ben's greedy pocket. They continue to block legit Amiga development and projects for the retro 68k Amiga that could avoid using PCs and emulation.

Just stop it! Nobody greedy would touch the Amiga market. Ben Hermans has his faults, but he's not stupid enough to think he could get rich by squeezing out the Amiga community. Likewise, not even Trevor would invest over 1 million pounds (or whatever it was) just to add a few more machines to his Amiga computer museum. Suggestions like this are so ridiculous it's comical.

As for the rest of your speculation, NDAs prohibit me from saying anything more than you're way off in fantasy land. Your habit of assuming ill intent is getting the better of you.

Hans

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 1:46:15
#119 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@Hans

Quote:
NDAs prohibit me from saying anything more


NDAs!

It's at time heart-sinking to see you all playing this big game of pretend, little kids rummaging through a toybox,

"let's pretend I was a company director!"
"let's pretend this was a very relevant tech business that is on the news all the time!”
"let's pretend I had NDAs and I protect important industrial secrets!"

Oh my friends,
the imagination,
the wilting, unaccomplished lives!



/MEGA!!!

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kolla 
Re: Trevor Dickinson nominated for comment of the year!
Posted on 26-Oct-2022 1:49:09
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 2379
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:
Retro Games Ltd. released THEA500 Mini which was far up on Amazon's UK top computer products sales list despite having no Amiga branding, no functional case, no AmigaOS and not being as cheap as originally planned using a custom Amiga ASIC


What?! Are you making up stuff again?! What “custom Amiga ASIC”? And why would there have been plans for that?! The A500 mini started on the C64 mini, it’s not that different and why would it be?

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