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      /  CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 16-Nov-2022 23:13:40
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

QBit wrote:
@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

People argue about everything even if it`s a dumb stick of wood



Do you perhaps mean.... a deadwood?


/MEGA!

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agami 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 0:39:51
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1156
From: Melbourne, Australia

@FairBoy

Quote:
the OS should be Windows 11

Blasphemy!


Quote:
AROS, as experienced by me, is still unstable shit, no matter if running on well chosen hardware or hosted

https://youtu.be/sDq6jnkqSks

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Karlos 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 16:05:46
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3122
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@FairBoy

And you extrapolate from your experience that everyone else finds it the same?

As much as I'm a proponent of a virtualized 68k experience, if what you want most of all is the ability to run Amiga source compatible applications on an Amiga like environment with all the expectation of modern x64 multicore support, memory protection etc. then Ax Runtime is far and away the best bet going forwards.

Once the window chrome issue is solved and it's no longer "in your face" that you are running on a Linux desktop environment, then Ax will be at the intersection of things that people have been saying for years should be the "NG AmigaOS" that existing NG have failed to deliver time and again: Full SMP, 64-bit memory support, modern GL/Vulkan, etc. Embed UAE for compatibility with original applications under emulation, especially if made as transparent as possible, and you are set.

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FairBoy 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 17:43:12
#24 ]
Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2020
Posts: 65
From: Unknown

@Karlos
Quote:
And you extrapolate from your experience that everyone else finds it the same?

Not that I know of. Just wondering how you came to that wild asumption. But then again, you are Karlos after all

@OlafS25
Quote:
"shit" is not a real nice wording.

You are right, it is not nice. But it is the appropriate and absolutely fair wording for my (and as you indicated apparently not only my) not even remotely nice AROS experience.

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pixie 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 17:49:23
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2760
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@FairBoy

Quote:

FairBoy wrote:
@Karlos
Quote:
And you extrapolate from your experience that everyone else finds it the same?

Not that I know of. Just wondering how you came to that wild asumption. But then again, you are Karlos after all

@OlafS25
Quote:
"shit" is not a real nice wording.

You are right, it is not nice. But it is the appropriate and absolutely fair wording for my (and as you indicated apparently not only my) not even remotely nice AROS experience.

You had a shitty hardware, perhaps...

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Nonefornow 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 19:42:20
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 335
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@pixie
Quote:
You had a shitty hardware, perhaps...


MEGA_RJ_MICAL said
Quote:
It made
the hardware
irrelevant.


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Karlos 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 21:15:24
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3122
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@FairBoy

Quote:

FairBoy wrote:
@Karlos
Quote:
And you extrapolate from your experience that everyone else finds it the same?

Not that I know of. Just wondering how you came to that wild asumption. But then again, you are Karlos after all


It was a question, not an asumption (sic). You can tell that it's a question, because it ends in a specific bit of punctuation colloquially known as a "question mark". I asked this question in hope of some clarification because your statement reads "It should not run AROS, because in fairness, in my experience, AROS is shit.". If it were in fairness, it would be based on the the merit of AROS and majority user experience of AROS, not a hand-picked sample of 1, namely your own.

But then again, you are... whoever you are. Perhaps English isn't your first language.

See? I can play the arsehole game too.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 17-Nov-2022 23:13:42
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

Nonefornow wrote:
@pixie
Quote:
You had a shitty hardware, perhaps...


MEGA_RJ_MICAL said
Quote:
It made
the hardware
irrelevant.




Friend Nonefornow,
what could possibly lead you to believe
that miguelito's words might carry any relevance?

You keep confusing speed with experience.

You could not get Commodore 64's scrolling, or sound, or the screen modes,
on a ZX Spectrum,
no matter how fast the ZX Spectrum was.

ALL DEVICES ARE NOW CAPABLE OF TRUE COLOR, OF FULL HI-FI DIGITAL SOUND OUTPUT,
OF SEAMLESS NETWORK CONNECTIVITY, OF PRETTY MUCH LIMITLESS STORAGE. THE HARDWARE IS IRRELEVANT.

EXPERIENCE, DIFFERENTIATION, ARE NOW IN THE OS ONLY.

And now,
cue a rigamarole on megahertzs and god only knows what,
god and zeus and ra and A WHOLE PANTHEON OF DEITIES PLEASE HELP ME KEEP ME CALM.

/M


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Nonefornow 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 1:12:20
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 335
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:
You could not get Commodore 64's scrolling, or sound, or the screen modes,
on a ZX Spectrum,
no matter how fast the ZX Spectrum was.


Unfortunately, this analogy is not understandable to me since in the ZX spectrum was hardly sold in the US.

The C64 had already won the home computers wars. As a result of three main essential operators - Ram, Sid, and Vic.

Quote:
And now,
cue a rigamarole on megahertzs and god only knows what,


CPU MOS Technology 6510/8500 @ 1.023 MHz (NTSC version) @ 0.985 MHz (PAL version)
Memory 64 KB (65,536 bytes) (IEC: KiB) RAM + 20 KB ROM
Graphics VIC-II (320×200, 16 colors, sprites, raster interrupt)
Sound SID 6581/8580 (3× osc, 4× wave, filter, ADSR, ring)
Connectivity 2× CIA 6526 (joystick, GPIO/RS-232/keyboard) Power (+5V DC & 9V AC) ROM cartridge Video/audio (RF/A/V) Serial IEEE 488 bus (floppy disk/printer) Digital tape

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 1:49:39
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:
Nonefornow wrote:

Quote:
You could not get Commodore 64's scrolling, or sound, or the screen modes,
on a ZX Spectrum,
no matter how fast the ZX Spectrum was.


Unfortunately, this analogy is not understandable to me since in the ZX spectrum was hardly sold in the US.


And you have a cognitive dissonance that renders you unable to understand something unless you have the physical object in your hands or you have experienced it directly in some form.

Ok.


Quote:
The C64 had already won the home computers wars. As a result of three main essential operators - Ram, Sid, and Vic.


It did, because BACK THEN, B - A - C - K T - H - E - N pay attention, look at my lips,
don't get distracted BACK - THEN the hardware mattered. The hardware made a difference.
BACK THEN.
IN THE 1980s. In the 1970s.

Back then.


And now,
IT DOES
NOT.


God the thickness of these skulls could lend to a material to build nuclear shelters.


/M!!!!!

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Karlos 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 8:09:10
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3122
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

The only part of a modern system that matters in any meaningful way is the processor and that's only because it dictates what form application binaries need to take. Even then, not always, given applications can be written in languages that compile to portable bytecode.

Pretty much every other hardware aspect is hidden behind layers of standardisation and abstraction.

It's great for consumers but also a bit sad for those of us who grew up in the golden age of home computing where every system was truly different and had its own unique character, strengths and weaknesses.

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Massi 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 14:11:15
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 614
From: Rome, Italy

@Karlos

Agreed and GPUs as well.

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Nonefornow 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 15:39:20
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 335
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:
pay attention, look at my lips,


Hold it there for a second MEGA_MAN_ZERO.

Are you talking to yourself? Do you hear voices in your head?

Because you are writing - writing - on a forum.

Please yell louder and let us know what your neighbors say.

Last edited by Nonefornow on 18-Nov-2022 at 03:39 PM.

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Karlos 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 21:05:05
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 3122
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Massi

Quote:

Massi wrote:
@Karlos

Agreed and GPUs as well.


I'm going to have to disagree a bit there. GPU matter in the consumer features & bang for buck sense, but for everyday application and development use you don't really look past GL/Vulkan/DX layers.

The exception would be if you are using GPU for compute of course. OpenCL has somewhat petered out, CUDA is still in heavy use and Nvidia only, then there's whatever Apple have. Metal?

I was quite heavily into CUDA a few years back and even there, the PTX assembler output of the compiler goes through a runtime JIT translation for the specific GPU architecture in use. It's pretty abstracted.

Last edited by Karlos on 18-Nov-2022 at 09:05 PM.

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bhabbott 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 21:35:31
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 228
From: Aotearoa

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

MEGA_RJ_MICAL wrote:
Christ almighty,
throughout my tenure here as Amigaworld protector and provider,
one thing has never failed to consume my very soul:
everyone's endless banter on CPUs, registers, benchmarks, PPC vs ARM vs X86, and so forth.

It's just banter. Why does it upset you?

Quote:
And the whole "Amiga on a PC? NEVER!" argument.

You will never get me to wear a suit and tie - NEVER. I nearly lost my job because it (if it wasn't for the union...). But that's just my personal preference. I don't mind what other people wear, so long as they don't force me to wear it too.

Quote:
For people who seem to care a lot about "computing",

Ah, I see your problem now. If we only cared about "computing" we wouldn't be here.

Quote:
you nimrods really don't seem to see one of the most important things about the evolution of computing -
NO WAIT, THE MOST important thing about the evolution of computing:

It made
the hardware
irrelevant
.

The age of hardware as a differentiator died in the late 1990s.

The same could be said for most mature technologies. Take the modern motor car for example. They all drive on the same roads, have the same controls, take the same fuels etc. Some may be faster, or have more room inside or are more stylish etc., but as far as the driver is concerned what's 'under the hood' is irrelevant. Yet motor car enthusiasts still engage in endless banter on 'hardware' differences between drive chains. And why not? Life is a lot duller for those who just do 'driving' or 'computing' without appreciating the technologies that make these activities possible.


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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 22:28:46
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@Nonefornow

Silence, scum.

/m

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Nonefornow 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 18-Nov-2022 23:32:29
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 335
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

Quote:
DISCUSS

/MEGA!


Quote:
Silence, scum.

/m




















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BigD 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 19-Nov-2022 0:02:38
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6620
From: UK

@Thread

Silicon is great! Some silicon is forged into a central processing unit! These are like "little cities" (credit: Björk). Some have more cache and some run at a higher frequencies! Some run code out of order and other silicon is in-order! Most silicon is made in wafers by the MMX dancing men in white suits! The Apollo Team danced with them and created some groovy new AMMX dance moves that is powerful enough to allow the Blast Processing 1991 super computer app Sonic the Hedgehog to run on a 68k Vamped Amiga!



I hope that this is insightful and calms the trolls until their next feeding time.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 19-Nov-2022 0:25:39
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 1200
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Thread

Silicon is great! Some silicon is forged into a central processing unit! These are like "little cities" (credit: Björk). Some have more cache and some run at a higher frequencies! Some...



Yes BigD,

we know you like silicon.

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OneTimer1 
Re: CPUs and chipsets and registers and benchmarks and ... IRRELEVANT
Posted on 19-Nov-2022 0:40:52
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 768
From: Unknown

@Nonefornow

Quote:


Yes but, to run 68K AROS on a Classic Amiga you need the relevant hardware.



True, to run any OS on an Amiga I need an Amiga

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