@Karlos

Use c or c++. You will don't need 68k anymore.

@ppcamiga1

Some of the most fun I've had with my clothes on has been writing code in C and C++ for 68K. What's your point?

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@Lou

What's holding the Amiga-ish platform back is aros x86.
Everything below Amiga gui and graphics should be cut off and replaced by unix.
And then maybe people will start writing modern software for Amiga.
aros has not working amiga gui (mui).
nothing changes since 1995

Last edited by sibbi on 18-Jan-2023 at 09:08 PM.

@ppcamiga1

MUI isn’t a GUI, it’s a graphical toolkit FOR the GUI, which is Intuition.

You should know this crap, being old and all… but keep getting it wrong.

I’m curious though, the day Jens Maus decides to build MUI5 for AROS on x86/amd64 and/or ARM - what will be your point against AROS then?

What if MUI becomes open source and gets merged into AROS for continued maintenance? Your brain will explode or something? :)

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @Lou I would say what's holding the platform back is the belief it is still relevant outside of hobbyists. I know it sounds awful but that's why so much of it is cloistered away in closed platform choices that are frankly going nowhere. I don't think the platform today solves anything for which there aren't already free alternatives with years, or even decades of head start already. Sure many dormer Amiga users may dislike existing GNU. That's where something like AxRuntime might step in. Unlike AROS proper, there's no need to port large, complex applications. They will just run out of the box.

Yeah but getting into Linux sucks and that's the only free alternative worth talking about.

Why can't we get a good browser? Because making a legit Javascript and/or WebAssembly interpreter/JIT compiler requires a lot of horsepower.

@Lou

There's way more to getting a "good browser" than just having a fast enough processor. You need the appropriate foundational software layers that are taken for granted on most modern operating systems. I'm no longer in the loop over what APIs are sported by the various Amiga spinoffs, so maybe that's not the impediment it used to be.

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@Lou

Don't forget memory. 32 bit OS systems aren't really enough these days, regardless of the compute power and modern browsers have a much larger memory footprint than they used to.

Then, there is Haiku, (a BeOS clone/reimplementation) which seems to be able to implement ALL of this stuff and is constantly being developed.

It seems quite Amiga-like in feel to use as well. Much more so than Linux anyway.

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@kolla

Quote:

What if MUI becomes open source and gets merged into AROS for continued maintenance? Your brain will explode or something? :)

We can only hope, my friend :)

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@kolla

Quote:

What if MUI becomes open source and gets merged into AROS for continued maintenance? Your brain will explode or something? :)

There would probably be a lot of fixes needed in AROS due to the differences in Zune and MUI. :D

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@Lou @Karlos

I agree. It's time to break compatibility, and it's been time for a long while now. Just like Haiku 64bit is doing.

And while I agree that most of what Linux is doing for AxRuntime could and should be provided by AROS, AxR is a good bridging option for AROS x86-64 app development in the interim.

What is holding back AROS x86 is the scattered focus via disparate philosophies of the overall post-Amiga landscape.

AROS x86 32bit and 64bit should be every bit as successful as the Haiku project if it weren't for the errant commercial endeavours of MorphOS and the AmigaOS 4.x camp.
Why in 2023 people are still paying for some wet dream fantasies from 15+ years ago is boggling my mind.

There are at present some 10,000+ active and semi-active 'Amiga' users. Can a demographic that small earnestly support all the different post-Amiga initiatives?

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@agami

Quote:

What is holding back AROS x86 is the scattered focus via disparate philosophies of the overall post-Amiga landscape. AROS x86 32bit and 64bit should be every bit as successful as the Haiku project if it weren't for the errant commercial endeavours of MorphOS and the AmigaOS 4.x camp.

Sounds like part of the plot for the movie In Time: "For a few to be immortal, many must die."

Finding others to blame stops you from noticing your own mistakes, and improving yourself. As a casual observer of AROS, I see a lack of clear vision, and rather haphazard development going off in different directions. It's also hampered by developers not being able to earn enough money off it to work on it full-time. AFAIK, Stephen Jones is the only one who has attempted to build an open-source business model that helps fund ongoing development.

Hans


P.S., Lack of clear vision and haphazard development seems to be a common malady in Amigaland...

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@Lou

I’ve recently have had to “get into” Windows again, after about 20+ years absence - and that is a nightmare!

It’s actually amazing how little has changed, everything that sucked 20+ years ago is still the same, or worse. More nonsense has been added, very little removed. Stuff that used to be cumbersome has become ridiculous (for example already overcrowded property windows are now insanely overcrowded - and more often than not, fixed to same crazy tiny window size - certificate properties for example - wtf!). And documentation for it all is like a labyrinth on a swamp, that skowly takes you in circles a few times until it points either to 404 or to an URL on a site that no longer exists…

Microsoft makes all alternatives look good!

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@SHADES

Quote:

Don't forget memory. 32 bit OS systems aren't really enough these days, regardless of the compute power and modern browsers have a much larger memory footprint than they used to.

Although I have never run out of memory with Wayfarer on MorphOS in my use on my Mac mini G4 with 1GB memory. Wayfarer is using the latest WebKit engines, but I think it doesn't "leak" memory as much as Odyssey did, or at least something is done better regarding it, because I ran out of memory about daily with OWB.

So, for me the biggest problem is the speed on the heaviest pages. You'll have to wait for some pages to load, but usually they do work ok after the initial loading. Although there are some rarer pages which seem to re-process something heavy after some actions too.

I could move on my G5/2.7GHz/2GB machine to get a better experience, but so far I've still been using my Mac mini, because it's still fine for the most pages I use.

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@kolla

aros x86 or arm should be just amiga graphics and gui on top of unix.
everything below graphics and gui should be cut off and dropped.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 14-Jan-2023 at 10:40 AM.

@ppcamiga1

Well, that's AxRuntime, only it provides ABI compatibility.

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@Karlos

What do I want? pwzamiga1 repeating the same crap like a broken record as a constant in this troubling times

Scalos running as a full amiga desktop (hopefull this year) so I can start with a distribution based on it. Mixing Aros (AxRuntime) and Linux based on a amiga desktop (scalos) as full linux desktop running on AMD64 is the first concept that convinced me. I see anthing NG related without chances, expecially if it needs expensive custom hardware or very old already dying hardware. At least something new is possible with AxRuntime/Scalos. We will see when it works and is useable. For me it is at least a real concept and vision.

The current amiga market is retro and that means 68k. You can see that on the videos of amiga 37. All NG platforms are a tiny niche in a niche today (except aros today running as apolloos on V4). AxRuntime/Scalos perhaps helps to get a little out of the current bubble we are in. We will see.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jan-2023 at 11:32 AM.

@agami

As I understand the plans are both ABI0 (old 32bit software) and Aros 64bit software will run on it without recompilation. The advantages using linux as base (modern foundation, drivers, modern software...) are so big that I see more than a bridge in it. The old native aros versions will not disappear but i think most users will use distributions based on linux. That is my personal expectation.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jan-2023 at 11:54 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jan-2023 at 11:48 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jan-2023 at 11:48 AM.

@kolla

the biggest advantages of windows are not the concepts of course but huge software base and access to informations if needed

-Native Aros for Raspberry pi or AmigaOS 3.3 for RaspberryPi and Classic
- Browser capable of playing youtube and all the good stuff.

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@kolla

Quote:

MUI isn’t a GUI, it’s a graphical toolkit FOR the GUI, which is Intuition.

Could it be a magical user interface? I imagine it would use only base gadgets since it provides more freedom than a standard BOOPSI interface. Such as even being able to scroll an interface would go beyond what Intuition would do usually. Given what it can do I wouldn't be surprised if it even just read mouse events and provided all the rest. But it wouldn't be using Intuition or GadTools for menus surely since the menu bar won't show if the program is held up.