@Karlos

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Karlos wrote: @bennymee Quote: Besided that, switching to another cpu needs a lot more development / time I am going to have to call that out. Moving from 68K to PPC took significant time and effort because much of the source material was written in assembler. However, it was ported to C. That's the heavy work done and dusted from an architectural perspective. Not a lot is particularly dependent on PPC. I'm not downplaying the effort required to migrate the OS and toolchain and I'd agree that some targets are significantly more difficult from a backwards compatibility perspective than others.

Yep, a few low level systems and drivers for the target hardware, and the rest would port across relatively easily. If they could just stop being so litigious and get out of their own way.

With their current pool of developers (paid and otherwise), I estimate an initial port to PiStorm32 (CM4, Lite, Standalone) at the signaled pace of 3.1.4 - 3.2.x releases, could be accomplished in 12-18 months.

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All the way, with 68k

@Karlos

there is no resurgence of 68k.
emulator is emulator and nothing more than emulator.
if you want to use emulator on rpi just use uae onr rpi and Amiga os 4.1 on it.
patch uae to use amiga mouse and keyboard like emu86 or whatever this crap on pistorm is called

@agami

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MorphOS are quietly working on a port away from PPC. My money is still on x86, but there are some whispers that it might be ARM.

There is that video on AMD64 IIRC that runs well. Though maybe x64 is too late now. They are running on Mac hardware and Mac is now moving away from x86 back to RISC again on ARM. So perhaps they should move to ARM instead. Then they'll be ready for Armapple hardware.

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And back to A-Eon, Trev has also expressed interest in moving to some custom ARM based solution because he would hate for Amiga(One) to just be a “PC”.

Have you seen this video? He doesn't want see OS4 users wearing pants. Now that's just silly.

OS4 pants

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I guess he hasn’t cracked open the case and looked inside of his X5000.

Why would he when he has a POWER9 18 core 96MB monster!

https://www.talospace.com/2018/12/who-got-talos-ii-order-1.html

@ppcamiga1

No 68K resurgence... Hmm.

That must be why there wasn't an A500 mini. It must also be why theres no Pi based emulation. It must also be why there's no sort of FPGA solutions. It must be why there's nothing like an AA3000+ motherboard, or any new accelerator cards of any kind. It must be why nobody outside of a few coffin dodging Amiga classic users care about 68K and certainly nothing going on in the Atari side.

Meanwhile the NG scene couldn't be hotter! You night get an A1222 soon. After the best part of a decade of it being first proposed.

As always, this is the view of the world when your own colon lining is millimetres from your eyes.

Last edited by Karlos on 05-Mar-2023 at 01:06 PM.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@Hypex

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Hypex wrote: There is that video on AMD64 IIRC that runs well. Though maybe x64 is too late now. They are running on Mac hardware and Mac is now moving away from x86 back to RISC again on ARM. So perhaps they should move to ARM instead. Then they'll be ready for Armapple hardware.

Oh boy.....

MorphOS runs on Mac because they were the only non retarded PPC available (and still are) while Intel Mac were often the most retarded x86 PC available.

The AMD64 demo was done on a normal ATX board and statements from the team are very clear that Intel Mac won't be an option.

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@BigD

Or could it be the king of the mountain slithering down some midnight oil?

In any case this scene from Pleasantville demonstrates the grievance of one who wonders where is Tabor is? Did he even preorder? We may never know. But, the pot thickens. Where is his Tabor?

@Hypex

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Why would he when he has a POWER9 18 core 96GB monster!

(correction mine)

Phwoarr! Just imagine running WBPattern Prefs on that bad boy!

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @agami Quote: I guess he hasn’t cracked open the case and looked inside of his X5000. Why would he when he has a POWER9 18 core 96MB monster! https://www.talospace.com/2018/12/who-got-talos-ii-order-1.html

His answer to "What is the most expensive machine (byte-4-buck) on which I can run Linux?".

And it's been smooth sailing for him. NOT!

Last edited by agami on 06-Mar-2023 at 01:01 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@Karlos

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Karlos wrote: @ppcamiga1 That must be why there wasn't...

You forgot to mention how there weren't any updated retail releases to AmigaOS 3 for 68k.

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As always, this is the view of the world when your own colon lining is millimetres from your eyes.

He should check for polyps while he's up there

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

Quite. I left it out because of the current situation, but it's obvious that even the vendor of PPC OS4 understands the situation better than this arseclown.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Karlos there is no resurgence of 68k. emulator is emulator and nothing more than emulator. if you want to use emulator on rpi just use uae onr rpi and Amiga os 4.1 on it. patch uae to use amiga mouse and keyboard like emu86 or whatever this crap on pistorm is called

68060 converts variable length 68K CISC into fixed length RISC-like instructions via the hardware decoders.

All modern X86 CPU designs have departed from X86 CISC microarchitecture design.

PiStorm Emu68 is a bare metal that is closer to Transmeta's approach and Amiga's data stored in RPI's memory is bare metal Amiga 68K.

UAE under memory-protected with multitasking OS is not bare metal.

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Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Yeh UAE is a lot of code, emulating a bunch of addresses spaces, a bunch of registers, a bunch of sound stuff, and on x86 / amd it do byte swap thing.

the PiStorm/Emu68K/ARM gets way not needing byte swap thing, does need address emulation, chipset emulation or sound emulation, all that other crap.

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RPI's memory is bare metal Amiga 68K.

And jit compiler you don’t see, and jit cache.

Implementation written by different people also preform differently.
but there is overhead when you compile, there is overhead, when you execute. Too many flushes too often can kill performance on any JIT compiler and break the illusion at worst moments.

you can see differences between different real 680x0 cpu’s too, but I guess the difference it’s more of surprise with JIT.

Personally I think worst is chipset emulation, the CPU emulation is what is, and there is no replacement for it, no new multicore 68K chips.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

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Yeh UAE is a lot of code, emulating a bunch of addresses spaces, a bunch of registers, a bunch of sound stuff, and on x86 / amd it do byte swap thing.

On modern very wide superscalar X86 CPUs, byte swap is not a major issue when Intel RaptorLake and AMD Zen 4 CPUs handle PS3 emulation just fine.

Wii, Xbox 360, and PS3 are the three last major big endian gaming platforms.

PPC emulation performance improves with lower latencies (e.g. Zen v1 vs Zen v2 vs Zen v3 vs Zen v4) which also benefits the very high frame rate in competitive gaming PCs.


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And jit compiler you don’t see, and jit cache.

Modern X86 CPUs have a trace cache/uOP cache (Intel) or OP cache (AMD Zen) that stores decoded instructions in a cache that is faster than the L1 cache.


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Implementation written by different people also preform differently. but there is overhead when you compile, there is overhead, when you execute. Too many flushes too often can kill performance on any JIT compiler and break the illusion at worst moments. you can see differences between different real 680x0 cpu’s too, but I guess the difference it’s more of surprise with JIT. Personally I think worst is chipset emulation, the CPU emulation is what is, and there is no replacement for it, no new multicore 68K chips.

Emu68's translation process will consume the main CPU resources which are hardware accelerated on modern X86 CPU designs.

Playing Quake 68K, RPI 3A+/PiStorm/Emu68K delivers about Pentium II 266/Celeron 300A. It's slightly faster on RPI 4B/PiStorm/Emu68K.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, TF1260, 68060 @ 63 Mhz, 128 MB)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi3a/Emu68)