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michalsc 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 6:48:32
#141 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 381
From: Germany

@agami

Quote:
@ppcamiga1 is kind of nuts, intolerant , and more than a little bigoted. He hardly ever has anything valuable to contribute to a conversation and generally just dumps on things he doesn’t like.


He is just trolling (and yes, he hates everything else than his amiga ppc)

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michalsc 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 6:49:28
#142 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 381
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Not a single person cares what you need or want.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 7:15:13
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5559
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Amiga NG was attempt to modernize Amiga.

AmigaOne / AmigaOS 4.x PowerPC / UBoot Firmware are attempts to follow Apple 68K to PPC-defined NG migration model.

As Motorola's largest desktop computer customer, Motorola followed Apple's PowerPC direction at the expense of 68K and its own next-generation 88000 RISC CPUs.

Following Apple, Phase 5 promoted the PowerPC direction for the Amiga.

Due to weakness with primary Amiga IP holders, Phase 5 PowerUP and Haage & Partner WarpOS PowerPC conflicts occurred and sets the stage for Genesi's MorphOS and Amiga Inc-Hypersion's AmigaOS 4 split.

MacOS "new world" PPC is another migration with Open Firmware (OF) which dumped Macintosh Toolbox ROM on the logic board.

Many other 68K platform vendors jumped ship to other RISC CPU families such as SuperH, PA-RISC, Alpha, MIPS, ARM, SPARC, and PowerPC.

Digital Equipment Corporation's StrongARM was the 1st strong ARM CPU clone along with high clock speed 64bit Alpha.

Acorn's ARM was born out of Commodore's bad CSG/MOS 65xx CPU R&D roadmap i.e. blame Jack Tramiel. Many CSG/MOS 65xx micro-computer platform vendors moved to Motorola's 68K CPU family.

Quote:

Amiga NG is Amiga that Commodore made if survive to for ex. 1996.

Nope. C= Commodore's Amiga Hombre is HP PA-RISC based and it ended with Intel Itanium.

Like the AIM alliance, Precision RISC Organisation was formed and died along with the MIPS and Alpha CPU-dominated Advanced Computing Environment.

Without Commodore's second sourcing PA-RISC CPU on the desktop computer and game console market, Precision RISC Organisation can't survive with just HP, Convex, Hitachi (backstabbed with Hitachi's SuperH), Hughes Aircraft, Mitsubishi, NEC, and OKI. "Japan Inc" supported SuperH before they were wreaked by ARM.

Commodore's Amiga Hombre targeted Windows NT RISC compliance, SGI's OpenGL, and PCI standards. Recompiled AmigaOS 3.x PA-RISC and Windows NT PA-RISC (replacing AT&T's Unix System V based AMIX) direction.

----

Apollo-Core's direction is "What if" Motorola followed Intel's rapid X86 evolution model and legacy support is placed in a single chip southbridge.

PiStorm-Emu68 (CPU-Northbridge function) is the small-budget post-RISC X86 style evolution model that is similar to Transmeta's Code Morph Software. Legacy Amiga chipset is treated like a Southbridge function.




Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 07:23 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 07:19 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 9:34:37
#144 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@Hammer and @ppcamiga1 are both great examples of the disconnect and how poorly they think about other people and their hobbies.

Cpu this or that or whatever hombre demanded. Some of us just don't care.
Some of us just want to run our A500 like in the old days and tinker with it and buy (largely more and more expensive) museum pieces to put in our A550.
Because it is our hobby, and we like tinkering with KS1.3 on a A500.

But any time we talk about our old m68k boxens, out comes you folks and talk about how much more advanced ppc is. Maybe it is, WE JUST DONT FUCKING CARE.
Leave us to tinker with our hobby. Leave us alone. Knock yourself out with your PPC boards. Have whatever fun you want.

Just leave us alone and stop spamming us with your ideas on how much more "advanced" PPC AOS4 is. If I wanted "advanced" I would just run linux. But this is a hobby and I will run whatever damn ancient retro computer I want.

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 9:49:40
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7349
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
real 68k solutions never reach level of cheap pc from Win95 era.


That's exactly what a PiStormed Amiga feels like! I don't agree with much of what you said as MacOS9 itself wasn't a success, was a dead end and had to be replaced by Mac OSX!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 10:54:45
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1712
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
BigD wrote:
@ppcamiga1

Quote:
real 68k solutions never reach level of cheap pc from Win95 era.


That's exactly what a PiStormed Amiga feels like! I don't agree with much of what you said as MacOS9 itself wasn't a success, was a dead end and had to be replaced by Mac OSX!

Adding to what @BigD wrote:

Yes, original aim of Amiga Inc. was to have a 3rd party work on the bridging OS (AmigaOS 4) a la MacOS 9.x so they can focus on AmigaOS 5 which would be akin to the leap that Mac OS X was.

But to call what Hyperion have done a success, that is laughable.

At best, even with the pretty much mandatory A-Eon Enhancer Software, I'd put AmigaOS 4 at MacOS 8.5 and in some areas maybe 8.6 level.

MacOS 9 was a tight OS with lots of 1st party and 3rd apps available for the platform. Good internal hardware support, and laptop support. Excellent external peripheral support. Wired and wireless networking technology support. IEEE 1394.

I bought a used PowerBook G3 333MHz in late 1999 running MacOS 9 and it instantly became my work and personal daily driver. I finally ditched MacOS 9 with the release of OS X Tiger 10.3 four years later, on my then PowerBook G4 500.

I am very much familiar with MacOS 9.x, and objectively there is nothing that AmigaOS 4.x does that comes close to the level of completeness nor overall user experience.

MorphOS on the other hand, very much MacSO 9.x

_________________
All the way, with 68k

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 11:05:25
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1712
From: Melbourne, Australia

@V8

Hey, in your PS collection, do you have an OG PS3 with the full Emotion Engine?

About a year ago, my "piano finish" big PS3 sans EE ended up getting the red light of death . It's place has been taken by a PS3 slim in extremely good condition.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 14:48:20
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5559
From: Australia

@V8

Quote:

V8 wrote:
@Hammer and @ppcamiga1 are both great examples of the disconnect and how poorly they think about other people and their hobbies.

Cpu this or that or whatever hombre demanded. Some of us just don't care.
Some of us just want to run our A500 like in the old days and tinker with it and buy (largely more and more expensive) museum pieces to put in our A550.
Because it is our hobby, and we like tinkering with KS1.3 on a A500.

But any time we talk about our old m68k boxens, out comes you folks and talk about how much more advanced ppc is. Maybe it is, WE JUST DONT FUCKING CARE.
Leave us to tinker with our hobby. Leave us alone. Knock yourself out with your PPC boards. Have whatever fun you want.

Just leave us alone and stop spamming us with your ideas on how much more "advanced" PPC AOS4 is. If I wanted "advanced" I would just run linux. But this is a hobby and I will run whatever damn ancient retro computer I want.

That's bullshit. I did NOT advocate for PPC Amiga!!!!


My last post is a short history summary from the 1990s.

If you read my posts, I already commented C= A1200 with PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68-stock RPI 4B already reaching SAM460's and A1222+ performance in DevilutionX at 1280x720p i.e. 68K version vs PPC version.

Emu68 and ARM Cortex A72 brute-forced DevilutionX 68K version within the C= A1200 envelope.


Reference
https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=133891#forumpost133891

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsOKIB95UHM
SAM460's DevilutionX PPC at 1280x720p.

https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=133894#forumpost133894
When I switch to 640x480 resolution, fps is around 65-70 fps.
I guess the game is designed to work on 640x480p resolution?


vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvsswLemWdY
C= A1200 with PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68-RPI 4B (stock 1.5Ghz)'s DevilutionX 68K at 1280x720p and 640x480p resolution.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 03:03 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 03:00 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 02:49 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 15:46:56
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5559
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
Amiga NG was attempt to modernize Amiga.
To made something like Mac Os 9.
It was succes. It is something like Mac Os 9.
Amiga NG is Amiga that Commodore made if survive to for ex. 1996.
As fast as cheap pc from Win95 era with 2D and 3D as fast as on cheap pc from Win95
with working MMU and FPU.
At price lower than 68k.
real 68k solutions never reach level of cheap pc from Win95 era.
always something missing.

From my experience, A1200 with TF1260 68060 @ +60 Mhz is close to Windows 95 with Pentium 60-based PC. 68060 behaves like clone 586 with a strong integer with a weaker FPU.

C= A1200 (with PiStorm32-Emu68-RPi 4B) can do more than my old Pentium 166 Windows 95, Celeron 300A Windows 98SE, Celeron 533 Mhz Windows 98SE and it gives a good stab against IBM T20 laptop with Pentium III 700Mhz Windows 2000.

CoffeineOS(AmigaOS 3.9 based)'s ready-made network stack is relatively easy for my C= A1200's PCMCIA Prism2 WiFi and C= A500's Pillbox Ethernet.

RPi 4B can run modern Linux ARM desktop and Windows 10 ARM (Windows NT 10.0).

C= A1200 (with PiStorm32-Emu-RPi 4B) can run Windows NT ARM edition just as C= Amiga Hombre's Windows NT PA-RISC edition compliance.

I just wonder who is actually following C='s NG.

"PiStorm32-Emu68-RPi 4B" is a good "What IF" when 68K CPU is handled by X86 cloner that released "Transmeta" 68K with +1Ghz 1800 MIPS.

Apollo's AC68080 V2 and V4 AMMX are good "What IF" extending beyond 68060 Rev6 @ 100Mhz i.e. the Pentium MMX era.

Meanwhile, AmigaOne/AmigaOS 4.1 PPC/System54 PPC has Apple's 68K-to-PPC path.

Each path gives a different "What IF" on different timelines.


Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 04:01 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 03:50 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 16:50:06
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5559
From: Australia

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote:

Yes, original aim of Amiga Inc. was to have a 3rd party work on the bridging OS (AmigaOS 4) a la MacOS 9.x so they can focus on AmigaOS 5 which would be akin to the leap that Mac OS X was.

But to call what Hyperion have done a success, that is laughable.

At best, even with the pretty much mandatory A-Eon Enhancer Software, I'd put AmigaOS 4 at MacOS 8.5 and in some areas maybe 8.6 level.

MacOS 9 was a tight OS with lots of 1st party and 3rd apps available for the platform. Good internal hardware support, and laptop support. Excellent external peripheral support. Wired and wireless networking technology support. IEEE 1394.

I bought a used PowerBook G3 333MHz in late 1999 running MacOS 9 and it instantly became my work and personal daily driver. I finally ditched MacOS 9 with the release of OS X Tiger 10.3 four years later, on my then PowerBook G4 500.

I am very much familiar with MacOS 9.x, and objectively there is nothing that AmigaOS 4.x does that comes close to the level of completeness nor overall user experience.

MorphOS on the other hand, very much MacSO 9.x


AmigaOS 4.1 with System54 updates has superior Radeon HD/RX OpenGL 3D support when compared to MacOS 9. AmigaOne has the advantage of utilizing PC's Radeon HD/RX GpGPUs which is superior to MacOS 9 and "new world" OpenFrimware PowerPC Macs with Apple ROM graphics cards SKUs.

IEEE-1394 is mostly used for video transfers and my K7 nForce 2 motherboard has IEEE-1394 Firewire and this functionality is useless for games. I did use IEEE-1394 Firewire for transferring the camera's videos and video composition work for a non-profit organization.
I have AMD K7/ NVIDIA nForce 2 Deluxe (with Soundstorm's real-time Dolby Digital 5.1 AC3 encoder)/NVIDIA GeForce 4 Ti 4200 VIVO (Video-In, Video-Out) during "new world" PPC Macs i.e. 100% green team.

IEEE-1394 standard died in modern times and it's not needed for Youtube video composition.

PCMR (PC Master Race) laughs at the pathetic gaming and raytracing capability of Apple PPC/X86/M1 Macs. My GPU bias is framed via the PC Master Race's perspective.

Applications are different topics from the OS services.

If I have AmigaOne PCIe, I have unused MSI Gaming Trio X Radeon HD 290X overclocked or Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 overclocked editions, Gold Rated 750 watts PSU, and SODIMM DDR3 or DIMM DDR3 modules on standby. I don't need to buy Mac edition tax with AmigaOne PCIe. My hardware purchases are biased toward gaming PCs.

From http://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/radeonhd-driver-hardware-From compatibility/
I do have a Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 (Tahiti, 900 Mhz OC edition).



Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 05:08 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 05:01 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Jul-2023 at 04:50 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

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OlafS25 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 20:12:08
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6376
From: Unknown

@agami

I do not know MorphOS so cannot compare with it. But generally the OS only is the foundation, so to say the base like of a house. It defines how stable the house is but basically it only defines a minimal set. The rest is defined by the desktop you use and how it is configured and what software is included

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V8 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 13-Jul-2023 22:07:37
#152 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Mar-2022
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@agami

Quote:
Hey, in your PS collection, do you have an OG PS3 with the full Emotion Engine?


A CECHA?, absolutely. You gotta catch them all.
You are not a collector if you dont try to get every model.

Though I am not using it. It was working last time I powered it on but they are basically just time-bombs at this stage. I mostly use a CFW capable slim as my daily and development machine.

EDIT: I just checked on ebay and a CECHA now seems to average ~300AUD. I clearly remember that these were ~600-1000AUD just a few years ago. I have no idea what is going on with these prices.

Last edited by V8 on 13-Jul-2023 at 11:19 PM.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 3:03:45
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2509
From: Chicago, IL

@Thread

If the A1222+ ships soon even if you don't like the CPU choice it would have done a better job than the much touted but still not available Amico console. That game system makes the drama in the Amiga market small potatoes compared to the huge drama Amico has caused for preorder customers, fans of Intellivision, investors and YouTube game reviewers. It's not been a picnic and makes the Amiga NG market look nice in comparison. Personally, I'm not a customer of the A1222+ since I already have the now hard to get Amiga X5000. I'm glad I picked it up before it became so rare. If you're interested, link to almost 4 hour documentary about Amico below.

https://youtu.be/8BgAarlzVD4

https://youtu.be/XqPQ3tWuum8

https://www.reddit.com/r/Intellivision_Amico/comments/10wyg4l/no_refund_update/

The final question for A1222 plus fans is once it's released where does the OS 4.1 market go from there. What are the long term hardware prospects for the next machines in the lineup if any?

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 04:55 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 04:02 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 03:08 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 03:07 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 14-Jul-2023 at 03:06 AM.

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Sent from my Quantum Computer.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 6:30:23
#154 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@michalsc

szulc I wrote you what you should do
instead of trolling you should hard work on mui clone

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ppcamiga1 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 6:44:55
#155 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@hammer @agami

I want Amiga as fast and as comfortable as my first pc running Windows 95.
My first pc was cheap 90 MHz AMD pentium clone. It was year 1996.
I want Amiga with
- compatible os
- real cpu
- cpu as fast as pentium 90
- 2D as fast as on pc in 1996
- 3D as fast as on pc in 1996
- working compatible MMU
- working compatible FPU
In one Amiga.
Amiga 68k still is not as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996.
Always something is missig.
Amiga NG is at least as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996.
So Amiga NG was success.

@hammer @agami
you and other 68k trolls should accept reality.
68k after so many years is still not good enough.






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pixie 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 9:01:21
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3211
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@ppcamiga1

Don't tell me that MUI 5 which is open sourced ceased to work

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

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OlafS25 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 9:22:02
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6376
From: Unknown

@ppcamiga1

yes please... instead of trolling do something constructive

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 11:32:40
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7349
From: UK

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
Amiga 68k still is not as fast and as comfortable as my first cheap pc from 1996.
Always something is missig.


In my opinion an 68k Amiga with a PiStorm/Vampire easily achieves this! If you haven't got access to functionality/certain apps from that era then Shapeshifter works great! AmigaNG is a strange middle ground that has never quite justified itself despite making daily driver stuff easier! I guess the Amiga is our fun hobby so daily driver stuff becomes boring IMHO! More fun to mess with the old apps than pretend the NG machine is a 'modern' PC/Mac competitor!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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michalsc 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 14:44:49
#159 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 381
From: Germany

@ppcamiga1

Yes my Master, I listen and obey my Master. What else can I do with my spare time to please you, my Master?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 14-Jul-2023 21:52:36
#160 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
@Thread

If the A1222+ ships soon even if you don't like the CPU choice it would have done a better job than the much touted but still not available Amico console. That game system makes the drama in the Amiga market small potatoes compared to the huge drama Amico has caused for preorder customers, fans of Intellivision, investors and YouTube game reviewers. It's not been a picnic and makes the Amiga NG market look nice in comparison.


The drama in the Amiga market overall has a VERY long and messy history. It's also multi-layered and at times wacky such as when Amiga, Inc pretended they intended to buy the naming rights to an arena in Kent, WA.

Two factions in the Amico nonsense is nothing compared to the number of splinter factions the Amiga community has had. Amico might be a fresher in mind conflict and drama, but taken on the whole I don't think it reaches what the Amiga community has been through overall.



_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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