@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @cdimauro Quote: What's not clear to you is that the install base number is irrelevant when talking about professional software, as Mac, Atari ST and Amiga have proved. That's the first point. The second point is that the same install base is irrelevant for professionals, because they can buy additional cards to accelerate / improve the original systems, to satisfy their needs. And that's the second point. I'll not repeat them again. (SNIP for out of topic) Irreverent. This topic is about a platform's survival. Against strong 2D gaming experience platforms like SNES, what's not clear to you is that the size of the install base with business/education customers is important for a platform vendor's survival. Apple's business/education customer base can spend 1 million PowerMacs within less than a year i.e. March 1994 to January 1995 time frame. You're out of this topic.

Not me: it's you that are constantly adding new stuff changing the topic. This part of discussion started with video games. Then you brought 3D on video games. Then you moved to professional 3D software. Then you moved to professional applications. Everything done to "justify" your "thesis".

Many ideas and confused!

You don't understand what the context of a discussion is and how to maintain the current topic, and continuously change it when you got proper replies which criticize or prove wrong your positions.

In short: you don't know how to correctly participate to a discussion and constantly derail.
Quote:

Quote: The second point is that the same install base is irrelevant for professionals, because they can buy additional cards to accelerate / improve the original systems, to satisfy their needs. And that's the second point. No shit. The second point is that add-on cards require a base platform that can accept them, and the big box Amigas are many magnitudes smaller than the Macintosh platform.

How cares? It was enough to bring MULTITUDE of software AND peripherals to our beloved platform!

Several people become professionals even working on pizza box Amigas without accelerators. Others had the money to buy something to strengthen their platform, and it was easier.

There was a very florid market for the Amiga: it was a forge that opened the doors of multimedia & co. to the masses and build many professionals.

Something that you completely missed.
Quote:

Great Valley Products liquidated itself in July 1995. In terms of revenue in 1991, Great Valley Products was one of largest of the 3rd third-party add-on providers for the Amiga. Phase 5 survived for a while before filing for insolvency and playing company shell games.

Guess why: thanks to the awesome Amiga market which allowed it!
Quote:

PPC AmigaNone camp's failure is treating the Amiga like a Mac, which is not a Mac. Hint: demographics matter.

Maybe because the platform was already dead?
Quote:

The same failure for Amithlon's "we don't care about games", reminder: Amiga is not a Mac.

You never understood what Amithlon was for, and you don't miss chances to bark this idiocy.
Quote:

Low volume sales workstation vendors like SGI usually offset their low volume sales with higher costs beyond the PC. SGI attempted to execute mass production via the N64 partnership, but SGI rebels founded ArtX instead and won GameCube's GPU contract. The PC market slowly chipped away at SGI's advantages. Similar story for Evan & Sutherland that offered low-volume production rendering workstations at high cost, attempted to compete in Windows NT's professional OpenGL market, and were pushed out by NVIDIA's mass-produced NV10-based GeForce / Quadro. Evan & Sutherland exited workstations and the OpenGL add-on market, with NVIDIA assimilating their patents. Old school big iron Unix workstation vendors were killed by PC's death by a thousand cuts.

Again your usual PADDING, completely going out of the context and the time frame of the discussion.

Hopeless...
Quote:

The platform's market economics matter for the commercial add-on vendor's production scale.

This hasn't stopped NEW platforms to born and proliferate in their niches.

You recall me Bruce-the-broken-record of: "since IBM has shipped the first PC, there was no doom for anyone else"...
Quote:

Amiga's 3D raytracing companies, like Newtek and Maxon have exited the Amiga platform. Lightwave users follow Newtek's exit from the Amiga market. Maxon users follow Maxon's exit from the Amiga market.

Of course, Mr. La Palice: do you expect that professionals remained when the ship sunk?

You're really incredible...
Quote:

XCad vendor, Cadvision international, has exited the Amiga platform. CADVision Systems is a major provider for Dassault Système SOLIDWORKS. https://www.nextcomputers.org/NeXTfiles/Articles/NeXTWORLD/NeXTWORLD_Extra/92.04.SummerNWE/92.04.SummerNWExtra12.html Ditek has sold 10,000 units of DynaCADD since 1985, with 30 percent in North America and most of the balance in Germany, where Amiga and Atari flourish. Also shipping this fall, according to Asher, will be 10 to 15 third-party products taking advantage of DynaCADD's open, extensible architecture.

I've told you billions of times to avoid editing and ADDING NEW STUFF to comments: if you've something to add, then create a new one! And edit comments to fix typos, layout, etc., but NOT the content.

Anyway, thanks for adding this stuff because and actually it proves what I was saying before.

It's like the excerpts from Bagnall's latest book (the first one I think that you haven't yet read): you report them because you think that they are supporting your unhinged "thesis", but don't understand that you're bringing fuel to someone else...
Quote:

You're out of this topic's platform survival debate.

Sure, sure. Your world of illusion...

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @matthey Quote: On paper, the 1985 Amiga is inferior to the 1988 Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and 1990 SNES in almost every way. Factor in the release timeline and market area. Sega Genesis/Mega Drive has discrete 64K VRAM in addition to 68000's 16-bit system bus is connected to user game ROM and system RAM. Against Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, AmigaOCS has its advantages e.g. Sega Mega Drive has inferior 512 color palette shades. Elf Mania and Shadow Fighter shows Amiga OCS strong technical 2D game delivery. Against Sega Mega Drive and head-to-head battle in Commodore's core European market, mostly Amiga 500 OCS still scored its highest 1991 unit sales. The major change in 1992's competitive environments near A600's price range is SNES's European 1992 release.

The Sega Genesis has much less colours compared to an Amiga OCS, but it's much better suited for games having more than one playfield and/or more moving objects at screen, thanks to the four 16 x colours palettes that can be selected by tiles and sprites.

Amiga sprites suffered by having one 16 x colours palette for all of them (when paired/"attached" to for 16 colours sprites. 4 colours sprites have even more problems with their fixed palette).

But what's worse is about the dual playfield mode: only 8 colours were available for each display, for the entire content. The Copper helped a lot, whenever it was possible, but the poor colouring of the screens and characters (using the BoBs) is clearly visible (take a look at Shadow Fighter).

In short: a 512 colours palette is poor, but having less colours usable from such palette is a much bigger limit.
Quote:

Hammer wrote: @cdimauro Quote: The main problem is that having only 512kB of Chip Mem heavily crippled what was doable with an Amiga OCS/ECS. Thanks to the "brilliant" Commodore engineers, which added such idiotic Slow Mem. ECS Agnus wasn't completed for A500's Rev 3 1987 release, hence the quick 512KB Slow RAM hack. ECS Agnus' 1 MB and 2 MB Chip RAM address range capability is the same for the canceled Amiga Ranger. At least ECS Agnus A + ECS Denise was demonstrated in Q4 1988. 1989 era A500 Rev 6A didn't have A3000's $C0 range shadow on the Chip RAM address range feature. A500 Rev 6A had to support A500 Rev 3/Rev5's $C0 512KB Slow RAM hack. You can have some kind of 1MB Chip RAM even with 0.5MB Chip RAM + 0.5MB Slow RAM configuration as long as the Agnus is an ECS model e.g. a copper pointer set to 0x090000 sees memory at 0xC10000. A500 Rev 6A is the definitive Amiga 500 due to record sales from 1989 to 1991. A500 Rev 3 and Rev 5 are the minority.

Irrelevant padding.

As you stated, the 1&2MB of Chip RAM was already available with the Ranger. It could have been enough to have this ported to the next Agnus revision (because you do NOT need to carry ALL ECS features).

The very limited Chip RAM was THE primary problem that should have been solved ASAP, and not only for games (e.g.: productivity software. Especially graphic/image processing and sound processing).

Anyway, adding one or two bits / internal pins to Agnus' upper word for pointers is a trivial change to the chipset that even a kid could have done with one hand (with the other hand holding a lollipop).
Only the "great" Amiga engineers weren't able to do it...