@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro What’s stopping you from creating some quality code yourself?

Why do you think that I've stopped?

BTW, you can ask my colleagues at BMW and former colleagues at Intel about the quality of the code which I've produced.

That's also the reason why I'm greatly appreciated for the code reviews which I make (IF you know what this means, of course) and many people still request me to do.

Again, you don't miss opportunities for being ridiculed. But if you have fun out of that, who am I to stop you? Go ahead!

@cdimauro

Certainly there are bad examples of using Amiga HW, but there are great
(like Black Lotus demos or Lionheart on humble A500)

I would prefer positive shines over bad apples. It was normal for the time,
and dont get me started on Steam games with Unity and half balked games
and apps of today :D

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@cdimauro

I feel nostalgic when reading that article, as you only talk about bad old code, not bad new code. Is it not wrong focus? considering you can’t do anything with old code, it is already written?

I think there are many ways to be a bad coder, for multiple of reasons.

One of problem today, is perhaps that we often forced into lowest denominator. For example, code optimized for no FPU, don’t use the GPU, and its not written for SMP, and does not use SIMD when we perhaps can.

The platform from its lowest to it highest specs are where different in capability, and if you had to optimize for it, you have written code 3 or 4 times. This be time-consuming.

but I don’t think that skills for writing for lowest spec computer is unusable when writing for high spec computer, I think choices are quite different.

Test driven development, is something sure most developers don’t do, and I’m sure it can be really good way, to make sure your code is bug free, its however time-consuming approach. However, the technique can be useful to discover, bugs that do not follow the documented behavior.

Not asking for advice? you think you know the best.

Refuse to leaning new and better ways.

Copy & paste coding, reusing code without knowing what it does, introducing bugs, like a bad infection.

bad documentation, lack of examples, information to proper take advantage of a library, a library or framework can be obvious to its creators, but can be hard to understand from some one who did not write it.

One thing I think a lot Amiga developers are guilty of, is not returning errors, programs quit without telling the users, so many times, people ask for help on the forums because of this, there is lot newbies who do not know about SnoopDOS / Snoopy. And often not even closing the program safely or cleaning up nicely before exit.

And another one, not initializing pointers, causing random behavior, that annoying for the user, hard to track down, and cause crashes at unexpected places.

and assuming success when allocating memory or opening files or libraries, works for the creator, but not for everyone else.

lack of font sensitivity. Or lack of border sensitivity, failing to calculate inner window size correct, some amiga software looks but ugly.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Sep-2024 at 10:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Sep-2024 at 07:50 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 30-Sep-2024 at 07:48 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@cdimauro

Dude, Why?

_________________

@cdimauro

I’m sorry, I meant Amiga code - thought that was obvious, given the context.

Why don’t you sit down and produce some quality Amiga software, you even have the advantage of emulation, modern tooling and decades of hindsight to help you. Make a demo, be a rolemodel and show everyone how it’s supposed to be done!

Last edited by kolla on 30-Sep-2024 at 10:59 PM.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@vox

Quote:

vox wrote: @cdimauro Certainly there are bad examples of using Amiga HW, but there are great (like Black Lotus demos or Lionheart on humble A500)

I prefer software written for a platform which runs on any configuration (unless there are precise requirements).
Quote:

I would prefer positive shines over bad apples. It was normal for the time,

What was normal?
Quote:

and dont get me started on Steam games with Unity and half balked games and apps of today :D

There are plenty of good games written with Unity.

BTW, you've to take a look at Unity 6: the last tech demo shines. It will be a HUUUUUUGE improvement for indies developers, giving them an incredible modern engine which allows them to do GREAT things.

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote: @cdimauro Dude, Why?

Why not? Are you a bad programmer?

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro I’m sorry, I meant Amiga code - thought that was obvious, given the context. Why don’t you sit down and produce some quality Amiga software, you even have the advantage of emulation, modern tooling and decades of hindsight to help you. Make a demo, be a rolemodel and show everyone how it’s supposed to be done!

I've already done: as you know, I worked to Fightin' Spirit and written part of its graphic engine.

I was also working at USA Racing, but it's unreleased and it'll never see the light, because it doesn't make sense to invest TONs of resources for it (it's a monster, from an artistic perspective: it requires A LOT of time for drawing the tiles and, especially, to design the map of each level). Plus, there's no market to cover the enormous costs.

Besides that, why should I? The content of my article is valid even if I would never developed a single line of code.

You know, it's the usual thing: elementary logic. Your "argument" (!) isn't valid to invalidate (!!) mines.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @cdimauro I feel nostalgic when reading that article, as you only talk about bad old code, not bad new code. Is it not wrong focus?

I would say no: it's the right focus, because the article has a general purpose.
Quote:

considering you can’t do anything with old code, it is already written?

Well, you can patch it, as it was shown in the article.
Quote:

I think there are many ways to be a bad coder, for multiple of reasons. One of problem today, is perhaps that we often forced into lowest denominator. For example, code optimized for no FPU, don’t use the GPU, and its not written for SMP, and does not use SIMD when we perhaps can. The platform from its lowest to it highest specs are where different in capability, and if you had to optimize for it, you have written code 3 or 4 times. This be time-consuming. but I don’t think that skills for writing for lowest spec computer is unusable when writing for high spec computer, I think choices are quite different.

All of that has nothing to do with "bad code".
Quote:

Test driven development, is something sure most developers don’t do, and I’m sure it can be really good way, to make sure your code is bug free, its however time-consuming approach. However, the technique can be useful to discover, bugs that do not follow the documented behavior. Not asking for advice? you think you know the best. Refuse to leaning new and better ways. Copy & paste coding, reusing code without knowing what it does, introducing bugs, like a bad infection. bad documentation, lack of examples, information to proper take advantage of a library, a library or framework can be obvious to its creators, but can be hard to understand from some one who did not write it. One thing I think a lot Amiga developers are guilty of, is not returning errors, programs quit without telling the users, so many times, people ask for help on the forums because of this, there is lot newbies who do not know about SnoopDOS / Snoopy. And often not even closing the program safely or cleaning up nicely before exit. And another one, not initializing pointers, causing random behavior, that annoying for the user, hard to track down, and cause crashes at unexpected places. and assuming success when allocating memory or opening files or libraries, works for the creator, but not for everyone else. lack of font sensitivity. Or lack of border sensitivity, failing to calculate inner window size correct, some amiga software looks but ugly.

You're mostly talking about BUGS, and I've already written about that on my article: they... happen! Even to super skilled developers which follow the rules and common sense.

So, what's your point here? I mean: related to the article.

@cdimauro

The way this was written, 🤢🤮

That not to say you can’t criticise, but I just think the way this was written, was just bad and not as helpful as you may think it is.

Maybe instead of writing an articles like this, you could approach these people and help them improve their coding skills or write tutorials or common programming mistakes made on the Amiga platform that you notice.

Rather than the kinda rude and insulting manner this was written.

That would be more helpful.

“amateur programmers infesting the computer scene�

Talking about devs as if there a virus, just because of some poor programming?

How would like it if someone came along and said

“Virus of these Amateur blogger, pretend journalist, writing self important articles, infesting our Amiga community with there vile and views�

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

Indeed @amigang!

I liked this definition, many people getting payed alot are not pro at all ..

"The proper term is professional; the word does not, in fact, imply being paid. That is only one of its several meanings. It has strong connotations that someone has certain skill, and adheres to certain standards in their work.

The "paid" meaning is not even related to the origin of the word. Originally, a "profession" consisted of the vows taken upon entering a religious order. I.e. the entrant declared those oaths, hence professing them, making a profession."

And show us your super compatible and super professional software then @cdimauro

The lifespan of a game for a publisher was very short in those days (is it still the case?). Programmers developed games in a matter of weeks most of the time, so in the end, they did a good job. Their ultimate goal was not to be compatible beyond what was available at the time of the game's release.

@cdimauro

Can't I ask why you need to troll again without you asking about my programming skills?
You are trolling and I ask you why.

_________________

@cdimauro

Quote:

as you know, I worked to Fightin' Spirit and written part of its graphic engine. I was also working at USA Racing

Yes, how can anyone not know, you’ve been harping on it for years and bring it up constantly! But what is there to learn from Fightin’ Spirit?

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@amigang

cdimauro Isn’t in this for helping anyone, it’s all about his own ego and nothing more.

He’s just another Gunnar.

The title should be …

The plague of meglomaniac Amiga personalities.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

Why did Fighting Spirit need a Whdload fix if you are such a wonderboy ?

Version 1.2 (11.12.2011) by Psygore:
- No more decrunching error with some files
- Manual added (thanks to Hexaae)

Version 1.1 (11.11.2011) by Psygore:
- OS stuff patched on AGA version (kickstart 3.1 no more required)
- Another CD32 version supported (a fixed version)
- Decrunch CrM! files via WHDLoad
- Snoop bug fixed (color bit, blitter wait, access outside chipmem)
- Illegal instruction in team mode removed (AGA floppy version)
- Files "FS/FSFIX/FSCD" can be packed as data with Propack
- Set CUSTOM2=1 to skip intro
- Quitkey works on 68000 cpu
- New install script

Version 1.0 (04.08.2003) by Psygore:
- Nice Color/NewIcon (created by me) and CoverIcon included
- Stack moved to fast memory
- Disk protection removed
- Decruncher relocated in fast memory
- Blitwait inserted
- Load/Save hiscores on HD (unless you use trainers)
- Saves option on HD
- Unlimited energy for player 1 (set in tooltypes, CUSTOM1=1)
- Quit with F10

@amigang

Quote:

amigang wrote: @cdimauro The way this was written, 🤢🤮

Have you got the Hyperbole:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/hyperbole

If someone uses hyperbole, they say or write things that make something sound much more impressive than it really is.
Synonyms: exaggeration, hype [informal], overstatement, enlargement

or not?
Quote:

That not to say you can’t criticise, but I just think the way this was written, was just bad and not as helpful as you may think it is.

Helpful for what? For writing good software (games, in particular)... NOW?
Quote:

Maybe instead of writing an articles like this, you could approach these people and help them improve their coding skills or write tutorials or common programming mistakes made on the Amiga platform that you notice.

LOL. Wake up! It's 2024! The Amiga time is OVER! That's pure hobby since DECADES and you pretend to help people writing NEW games... NOW?!?

Are you serious?!?
Quote:

Rather than the kinda rude and insulting manner this was written.

Insulting who? Have you got the Methaphors:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/metaphor(s)

A metaphor is an imaginative way of describing something by referring to something else which is the same in a particular way. For example, if you want to say that someone is very shy and frightened of things, you might say that they are a mouse.
Synonyms: figure of speech, image, symbol, analogy

or not?
Quote:

That would be more helpful.

See above for that: it's a LITTLE BIT late now...
Quote:

“amateur programmers infesting the computer scene� Talking about devs as if there a virus, just because of some poor programming?

Some? SOME?!? Again, are you serious? Have you seen how many slaves exists for games and demos?!?

As I've already stated, it was a bloodbath for Amiga users which had different configurations: you don't need to wait for the AGA machines to see those issues.
Quote:

How would like it if someone came along and said “Virus of these Amateur blogger, pretend journalist, writing self important articles, infesting our Amiga community with there vile and views�

How? Simple: I would say that it's a false statement written by people which haven't understood the article, or felt personally touched, so started inventing things against the author to discredit him and appeasing one's violated ego...

@kriz

Quote:

kriz wrote: Indeed @amigang! And show us your super compatible and super professional software then @cdimauro

I've already reported it the previous comment.

Next time I suggest you to read AND understand what people write BEFORE writing a completely useless comment...
Quote:

kriz wrote: Why did Fighting Spirit need a Whdload fix if you are such a wonderboy ? Version 1.2 (11.12.2011) by Psygore: - No more decrunching error with some files - Manual added (thanks to Hexaae) Version 1.1 (11.11.2011) by Psygore: - OS stuff patched on AGA version (kickstart 3.1 no more required) - Another CD32 version supported (a fixed version) - Decrunch CrM! files via WHDLoad - Snoop bug fixed (color bit, blitter wait, access outside chipmem) - Illegal instruction in team mode removed (AGA floppy version) - Files "FS/FSFIX/FSCD" can be packed as data with Propack - Set CUSTOM2=1 to skip intro - Quitkey works on 68000 cpu - New install script Version 1.0 (04.08.2003) by Psygore: - Nice Color/NewIcon (created by me) and CoverIcon included - Stack moved to fast memory - Disk protection removed - Decruncher relocated in fast memory - Blitwait inserted - Load/Save hiscores on HD (unless you use trainers) - Saves option on HD - Unlimited energy for player 1 (set in tooltypes, CUSTOM1=1) - Quit with F10

Oh, good that there's something for my game, which is a very good example to show the differences.

However, you've reported the full list of changes which means... nothing without understand of what they are talking about.

Let's reduce it to the relevant parts:

 - Snoop bug fixed (color bit, blitter wait, access outside chipmem)

 - Illegal instruction in team mode removed (AGA floppy version)

 - Blitwait inserted

@kamelito

Quote:

kamelito wrote: The lifespan of a game for a publisher was very short in those days (is it still the case?). Programmers developed games in a matter of weeks most of the time, so in the end, they did a good job.

Delivering is a good job, yes, but the quality of the products is a different thing.
Quote:

Their ultimate goal was not to be compatible beyond what was available at the time of the game's release.

First, you've to prove that this was really the goal.

Second, and most important, at the time we had configurations with:
- Fast RAM;
- different processors (even the 68010 which was just a drop-in replacement to the 68000);
- different OS versions;
- more disk drives;
- hard drive.

The examples which I've reported in the article cover all those and.. guess what: the developers have NOT took into account them, because they haven't followed the guidelines.

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote: @cdimauro Can't I ask why you need to troll again

First of all, you've to prove that I was trolling. I'm preparing other popcorns for this...

Second, "again" means that it already happened at least another time. Care to PROVE this/those as well?
Quote:

without you asking about my programming skills?

No, you can't. Do you like my answer?

Regarding your programming skills: https://www.yssing.org/modules/cms/text/17/Curriculum_Vitae

They do NOT look like a good match with the content of the article.

However, it's up to you to show that you understand it.
Quote:

You are trolling

Again, you have to PROVE it. Other popcorns!
Quote:

and I ask you why.

I can't give an answer. You know, there are times where questions have no answers.

This is exactly the case, since... I was NOT trolling. So, I can't tell you why, because... there's no why. By elementary logic.

Satisfied now?