@ppcamiga1

Parroting something doesnt change reality.

People who like AmigaOS paradigms enjoy it for what it is.
You may prefer Windows, but many enjoy AmigaOS and derivatives and will use it, by their own choice, regardless of what other OSes are available for a hardware platform.
Do you hound MorphOS users because MacOS and assorted Linux distros are available for ppc Macs?
Your opinions and thoughts on other peoples choices couldn't matter less. Why, and how on Earth do you think they do?
Its for others to decide what is right for them. You're entitled to your preferences as is everyone else. The difference is that other people aren't so pitiful that what strangers do with their free time doesn't cripple them.
You understand the concept of personal taste and interests when it comes to yourself, but not others?
Stop pretending you dont understand this just so you can parrot the same moot stupidity over and over.

Or are you simply as narcissistic as this character you try so hard to portray?

Last edited by fishy_fis on 06-Nov-2024 at 05:51 AM.

@fishy_fis

I like PPC, I just don't see it as a viable continuation today. Back when the BlizzardPPC came out, the step up in processing power the 603 gave me over the 040, as a developer, let me experiment with stuff that was too slow to be practical on the 040. For me, RTG and 3D came very soon after and it was great fun to be doing that stuff then. In those days, moving to PPC from 68K was a logical decision. The hardware already existed, the gap bridged by Phase5 and Apple had done it successfully.

Today, it's all irrelevant. Apple stayed relevant by continuing the "platform game", jumping over to x86/64 as PPC stalled and later jumping to ARM.

I'm a proponent of 68K today because it has never been more accessible thanks both to emulation and ongoing efforts to make new accelerators and clones. It's also a bigger market for anyone interested in actually selling anything.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Apple stayed relevant by continuing the "platform game", jumping over to x86/64 as PPC stalled and later jumping to ARM.

Which is the entire point of having a portable architecture agnostic operating system - OS4 was promised to be portable, but apparently it isn't. Apple still delivers latest MacOS for Intel systems.

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@kolla

It is (theoretically) portable, with the exception of a few low-level kernel bits that necessarily have to deal with supervisor state stuff, at least to any other 32-bit big endian platform. All the hard work of moving from assembler to C has been done. It seems to me that the reasons for it languishing on PPC are mostly nontechnical.

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@fishy_fis

Its very fishy he never defends MOS and Linux PPC, just OS4

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@vox

Given that MorphOS has the better MUI implementation of all, makes me wonder...

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PowerPC is in a weird limbo place. It never enjoyed the breadth of use that 68K did and it wasn't an ISA that was especially fun to code for directly (though it has some nice features, e.g. choice of whether or not condition codes are affected etc). People that coded on and for PPC tended to just use compiled languages and moved on when apple did.

Probably because the largest desktop use was the Mac and OSX generation macolytes don't seem to be a particularly sentimental bunch, PPC was ultimately just an architecture that existed. It doesn't have any intrinsic coolness or rouse strong feelings of nostalgia except in a limited number of individuals. People still mess with 6502 today, but I doubt anyone will be messing with PPC the same way after so many years.

Personally, as a developer and tinkerer I had a blast going from a 68040 to a 603e at almost 10x the clock speed and PowerUP/WarpOS kernels were rather interesting challenges from an optimisation perspective. The Blizzard G4 was a board I really wanted to get, but alas it never materialised.

It was fun while it lasted but I feel sad that the efforts of everyone that made OS4.1 and MOS a reality are both seemingly dead-ended on the architecture. MOS x64 has been talked about for ages and the supply of PPC Mac hardware will surely dry up at some point. I don't see why either OS is "coupled" to PPC in an era where ARM is so prevalent.

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@ppcamiga1

And 2008 to 2018 Amiga PPC has failed miserably,
while m68k revived with 080 MMX and PiStorm

Aminet AROS, OS3.x, MOS vs OS4 sw tells it all
or Aminet vs OS4depot uploads.

And when you say PPC you miss non AmigaOne machines.

I can do way more on iMac G5 with Linux, MacOS X and MorphOS
then I ever could on x1000 and I have working Bluetooth, WiFi and faster CPU.

Also I had PS3 and will get WII U and these consoles are PPC but
have good OS, utilize hardware and have great game library.

FatPS3 even allowed running Linux as dual boot and any PS3 can be hacked to it.
Also there is a way to hack WII U too https://linux-wiiu.org

All those PowerPC machines are way cheaper then any AmigaOne
and way more usable

Last edited by vox on 17-Nov-2024 at 12:58 AM.

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SinclairQL and WII U lover :D
YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@Tpod

x1000 drivers and CFE have never been sorted out,
better go with x5000/040 if you wish so, plus you get MorphOS which is great

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OS 3.x AROS and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionalism. Learn it harder way!
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YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@Karlos

Biggest plus is portability of OS4 code that screams to be backported,
as it seems to be ongoing with OS 3.1.4, OS 3.2.2 ...

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@ppcamiga1

I must say I like all my Amiga (and related computers), but I'm CPU agnostic. Two of my three main machines use "x86" CPUs (AMD 8845HS in a laptop - quite powerful for OS4 emulation; Atom N455 in a netbook - ideal for OCS/AGA games on short travels). Only the desktop (Pegasos 2 G4) has PowerPC CPU (clocked at nice 1266 MHz).

I really don't care what CPU is inside as far as my needs are met (compatibility, portability etc.).

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: I must say I like all my Amiga (and related computers), but I'm CPU agnostic. I really don't care what CPU is inside as far as my needs are met (compatibility, portability etc.).

Absolutely. As an end consumer, and even as a developer for good while now, the CPU should not be a factor. Price, performance, compatibility with existing peripherals and software are what factor into the purchase decision.

The CPU architecture (ISA) is more of a strategic decision in managing a line of products. Console makers have been excellent examples of moving from ISA to ISA to meet their product/market goals. They used PPC when it made sense to them, and stopped using it when it no longer fit into their product strategy.

AmigaOS 4's predicament is tied to the fact that their unrelenting owner(s) don't have the resources to port it to another ISA, even when that is the only remaining and reasonable move to make. There's barely the resources to maintain and update the PPC version, and I don't think the funds from the OS 3.1.x and 3.2.x cash-grab were primarily used to fund more development, and the move landed them into more costly litigation.

The MorphOS team are also taking their sweet ass time with their port, which is only made worse by their silence on the subject.

I too engaged in the CPU camp mudslinging in the early '90s, but just like the industry, I grew up. The Amiga was my "format war" moment. It lost. As did Betamax, HD-DVD, and Memory Stick. Hardware is extremely standardised now. The battlefield has moved over to services and user experiences.

Which leads me to think that @ppcamiga1 has so much PTSD that he is incapable of leaving the 32-bit big-endian vs. little-endian, RISC vs. CISC battlefields. In that way I feel sorry for him, I genuinely do. He's our little Don Quixote, tilting at PCs, which he sees everywhere.

Last edited by agami on 26-Nov-2024 at 01:44 AM.
Last edited by agami on 26-Nov-2024 at 01:42 AM.
Last edited by agami on 26-Nov-2024 at 01:40 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@vox

You know it is not... sayinng things thats not true, does not make it true.

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@ppcamiga1

I like PowerPC so much I spend time setting up compiler attributes so I don't have to program any PPC assembly in bare metal code.

Okay this wasn't about the technical down low.

Quote:

OCS was great.

It was great until VGA arrived on the scene and even a 1987 ECS A500 would have been sweating.

Quote:

But after Amiga 500 production was stopped in june 1992 it should be replaced with something decent.

Technically, it was, an A1200.

Quote:

AGA was too slow and too outdated.

AGA offered a lot. In some ways maybe too much that complicated it. Compared to jump from OCS to ECS, AGA was a major leap. But, it also brought to light major flaws in the chipset. Amiga was a 16 bit design and AGA needed to upgrade that to both 32-bit and 64-bit logic. So they needed to hack it onto a 16-bit design.

However, for the time, it was too late for both Amiga and the outside world. It was really needed in 1990 when VGA was standard. But by then the A500 was still king in Amiga land.

Quote:

AGA should have chunky pixel.

Putting it in the original design or ECS would have been better to build on. But yes some of way of enabling a chunky mode. Either directly, being able to modify CLUT data or through a copper list.

Quote:

AGA should have real 16 bit color modes not HAM

That may have been too much. HAM8 used 8 bits. However, the Falcon, Ataris answer to an A1200 beater, has a 16-bit chunky mode. They were planing to use some compressed modes in AAA.

Quote:

AGA should have at least some basic 3D like texture mapping.

ECS almost did. The line fill mode can use textures. However 16 pixel textures aren't very useful and being static makes a cartoon effect. So the blitter needed some bitmap scale and warping function. OS3 introduced bitmap scaling but the hardware didn't support it directly. Needing to split a warp or scale into smaller blit blocks is not optimised in the best way. Of course, had it had warping ability, it would still be one planar. So having a multi planar blitting ability also would have been great to compensate.

Quote:

68k failed to deliver that.

The lack of graphical ability wasn't the 68Ks fault.

Last edited by Hypex on 26-Nov-2024 at 06:50 AM.

@ppcamiga1

I LIKE MY PPC AMIGAONE X5000 TOO MUCH TO MUCH!
It is what it is with AMIGA today, but at least it give me OS4.x Native on PPC Hardwares.

AMIGA PPC with OS4 is it was it is!
I like Commodore64 too, it is what it is!

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@Karlos

I wonder who designed PowerPC 970's power consuming bloat CPC 925 chipset.

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@Hypex

Quote:

That may have been too much. HAM8 used 8 bits. However, the Falcon, Ataris answer to an A1200 beater, has a 16-bit chunky mode. They were planing to use some compressed modes in AAA.

Atari Falcon doesn't have memory bandwidth saving 8-bit chunky mode.

Quote:

AGA offered a lot. In some ways maybe too much that complicated it. Compared to jump from OCS to ECS, AGA was a major leap. But, it also brought to light major flaws in the chipset. Amiga was a 16 bit design and AGA needed to upgrade that to both 32-bit and 64-bit logic. So they needed to hack it onto a 16-bit design. However, for the time, it was too late for both Amiga and the outside world. It was really needed in 1990 when VGA was standard. But by then the A500 was still king in Amiga land.

Before AGA, Rubin's Amiga group target the "moon project" known as AAA and it crash-n-burn like Soviet N1 moon program.

AAA can scale from FP DRAM to VRAM.

Commodore HR was distracted with PC clone and Unix personnel (from Coherent ) hiring.

Henri Rubin was distracted by many A2000 add-ons, monochrome ECS Denise, four color ECS Denise, 8 color ECS Denise debates, Amiga Unix and 'etc'. Rubin's A2000 addon focus effectively made Commodore-Amiga Inc as oversized GVP.

Meanwhile, CSG team worked on 256 color (8 bitplanes, blitter) on CSG's 2 micron fabs for C65 project. Amiga was stuck in old 5 micron fabs until AGA's 1.5 micron fabs.

CSG wasted funds on large scale 2 micron fabs for the canceled C65.

AAA targeted 1 micron fabs.

There is no focus on Amiga's core graphics chipset.

Unlike Sony's Ken Kutaragi, Henri Rubin is not a real engineer for silicon chips.

My old laser color printer has PowerPC and its Doom frame rate is less than 1 fps.

Last edited by Hammer on 29-Nov-2024 at 02:29 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 29-Nov-2024 at 02:22 AM.

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
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