@Karlos

fast native up to date with future at rational price
with decent web browser

provide something that amiga like on x86 or arm
or sod off

@Karlos

and don't forget we already have winuae and qemu on pc
so don't need this shit pistorm

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 23-Dec-2024 at 12:30 PM.

@ppcamiga1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFKy-8PfWmk&t=85s

it will come

@ppcamiga1

why are you always badmouthing work of others? do it better if you can

it is not for you we know

it is for a different audience

@OlafS25

Quote:

why are you always badmouthing work of others? do it better if you can

He cannot. He is a troll with no real knowledge and his only skill is copy-and-paste badmouthing. Maybe he has some mental issues, maybe it’s just a jerk having fun with our reactions. Who knows :)

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: planned

Thats the keyword here

Sure if there really is "a plan" it would be ahead of everything else in that regard.

As to downgrading, Ambient is way ahead of either Wanderer or Scalos, Wayfarer is the browser in Amigaland capable of being usable on the modern Web meaning I don't have to switch back on forth to a non Amiga system.

MUI5 is also way ahead of Zune, MUI3.8 and for sure the FrankenMUIs.

You are free to put in your own goalpost or even move them around a bit but even a minor downgrade is a downgrade.
Not that my issues with various variants of AROS over the past 20+ years would qualify as minor...

_________________
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- blame Canada

@Karlos

Quote:

In which ways would you seek to move the base OS forwards? It's a hugely weighted question, but if the direction is towards 64-bit and SMP there are existing experimental AROS iterations with that and of course AxRT which just dumps the base OS entirely and replaces it with something that's already walking the walk and provides a bunch of (as far as is practical) Amiga compatible API on top.

I don't have a clear plan because it's not worth thinking about when there's zero chance of making it happen. Given my involvement with AmigaOS 4, I'm more inclined to think about using that as a starting point rather than throwing it all away in favour of something else.

Quote:

What you seem to describe as an obdurate clinging to the past of many users holding the system back is just a manifestation of the fact that (these) users want an "Amiga".

No, it's confusing minute implementation details with what an Amiga is. AFAIK, none of the original Amiga computer engineers/programmers see the Amiga as anything that's tied to 68K, the classic hardware, or how AmigaOS 3's Workbench looks and feels. Dave Haynie made it very clear that they would have switched to PCI over Zorro if they had continued, and strongly suggested switching to x86 at one point.

I remember Carl Sassenrath running a poll here on AW.net years ago, where he defined Amiga as something related to tech. that enabled creativity. His definition encompassed his REBOL project.

If the original team had been able to continue, I expect that the modern Amiga would have been a bit like what MacOS X is to the classic MacOS. MacOS X is vastly different to the old MacOS, yet still feels like a Mac.

Quote:

It seems to me that the users/devs who want a clean break with the legacy in order to move forwards already have that option. So what's stopping them?

Nobody wants a "clean break." At least nobody I know who's still an Amiga computer fan. It's about letting go of those parts that don't make sense any more (like the old custom chipsets).

Hans

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@Kronos

I have quiet some experience with configuratiion of scalos snd magellan. I doubt that there is anything possible in ambient that you cannot do in these two desktops. MUI yes certainly has more features. But there are not many new apps for it, you already mentioned the two most important. There is nothing wrong with preferring something.

I like Aros because of the freedom it offers

@Hans

there is the retro branch that is connected with 68k and will live in coming years

there were OS versions running on faster hardware but inheriting most of the limitations like no memory protection and 32bit

so NG today is somehow retro too, just not feels like

but to get something modern you must make a break. But even that not automatically gives you more developers, drivers and software, you just look better on paper

NG OS as a platform on its own has no chance in my view

@michalsc

szulc stop trolling and start working on mui on aros

@OlafS25

herr szonwejs stop trolling start working on mui on aros

@Hans

ye if original team will still work on it
it will be something like mac os x
amiga gui and graphics on top of unix
nobody need os on win98 level on x86 or arm

@ppcamiga1

Darling, You forgot your pills.

@Hypex

Quote:

Doesn't the Vampire feature a 64 bit CPU? Well the 68080, if it could be considered a real 68K, since it's not an official Motorola MC 68K designed by the 68K team and fabbed into an ASIC. Also, the Apollo 68080 also has AMMX. Vectors for 68K. Intel inspired they may be. That makes 68080 way superior to the A1222 and X5000, because it has vectors, and they don't. (Ignoring the weird hybrid FPU/SIMD in the A1222 CPU.)

Haha, interesting, so basically the Vampire standalone is more powerful than the gigantic X5000, yet not even half the price to obtain one versus the x5000.

Here is a curiosity question then, would that mean they could technically make Amiga OS4 run on it after porting it to it, enabling smoother run Amiga OS4.x?

A------------------------------------------------------
Another Side Note :

So, Aros uses their Apollo OS to ship with it, but I wonder how many users opted to swap that CF card to install an Actual Amiga OS onto the stand alone via a different CF card installed?

B-----------------------------------------------------
Sigh, while I'm here :
I presume if a user installed a classic Amiga OS onto said system, (Vampire Standalone) They would then also consider the option of a Greaseweazel to run Amiga disks on the system?

Or can one actually attach a genuine Amiga floppy onto this Vampire V4?

C----------------------------------------------------
So then :

If we already have a continuation of new hardware for people wishing to go retro, that technically isnt all Emulated due to allowing an actual Install of Amiga OS and boot sequence into said OS, why haven't more people bought a Vampire Stand alone V4 system?

D----------------------------------------------------
For now :
Would this not entail we should already as a community be backing and advocating then not only current new hardware that already exists in the Vampire Stand alone, but also then make mention of Amiga OS PPC and Morph OS PPC options (Morph OS still being somewhat cheaper despite old Macs getting higher in price)

E----------------------------------------------------
Lastly :

As a community then, how can we Advocate then particular useful hardware for new comers just wanting to experience days of old and have it be more effective for further sales of said hardware, example wise, Vampire Stand Alone, if it truly can run Amiga OS 3.2.2 as well as their own Apollo OS iteration (So AROS that actually works well for users, I've seen it down at Amiga club, if only they made the install that simple for x86 hardware users)

F-------------------------------------------------------
Separate gear 600GS

So does the 600GS, also support native Amiga OS install or is it fully dependent on an AROS iteration only?

(Just saw via youtube their using a new version called AmiBench, interesting)



Quote:

The company that ported the OS to PPC didn't even make it work with their own PPC games or even port their games over!

I remember that, when I first entered into the Modern generation Amiga OS, I was full of Hype and hope, only to then realise many things being purchased to use with it, some things, not mentioning names of software here, did not at all run smoothly to get working.

Last edited by Gebrochen on 23-Dec-2024 at 02:49 PM.

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A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
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@Gebrochen

there is apolloboot on v4 that certainly is used by many and makes it easy to install different operating systems on one card. That is certainly mostly including apolloos, perhaps others.

For example my aros vision is planned to be available on apolloboot too. How often people use one option or another is pure speculation

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-Dec-2024 at 03:04 PM.

@Gebrochen

Quote:

Gebrochen wrote: Haha, interesting, so basically the Vampire standalone is more powerful than the gigantic X5000, yet not even half the price to obtain one versus the x5000.

Nope, not even close (and surely isn't 64bit in any common meaning of that phrase).
In reality it's performance sits somewhere between a CSPPC and EFIKA, with some superselective benchmarks it might even come close to a SAM440.

Quote:

Here is a curiosity question then, would that mean they could technically make Amiga OS4 run on it after porting it to it, enabling smoother run Amiga OS4.x?

Every PPC OS could be ported back to 68k since it's 99% C code anyways. Won't happen for various reasons, if it would it would runs about as smooth as the PPC-OS runs on the HW listed above.

Quote:

So does the 600GS, also support native Amiga OS install or is it fully dependent on an AROS iteration only?

It's on off the shelf ARM board, so yeah you can run anything on it that exist as an image for. Since there is no (ARM)native AmigaOS that not an option. ARM native AROS or 68k AmigaOS inside any ARM based emulator should be trivial.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@OlafS25

Fair enough. Im still clearly more so using Retro Amiga os or PPC Amiga OS, with dabbling in MorphOS via Powerbook g4.

I used to have the joy and luxury of dabbling in Aros, have no clue why none of that worksdanymore on same said hardware that it worked on for years.

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@Kronos

Quote:

Nope, not even close (and surely isn't 64bit in any common meaning of that phrase). In reality it's performance sits somewhere between a CSPPC and EFIKA, with some superselective benchmarks it might even come close to a SAM440.

I mean I was replying to what Hypex had said, but thank you for clarifying a clearer picture

Quote:

Every PPC OS could be ported back to 68k since it's 99% C code anyways. Won't happen for various reasons, if it would it would runs about as smooth as the PPC-OS runs on the HW listed above.

And they did make it run on hardware similar to above already indeed, sam flex working beautifully these days since I worked out what was causing interrupts at the time (A program was at fauly, even when I set the priority right down, it still gave interruptions, so i ended up opting to get rid of it from wb startup se and ever since the flex is a dream to use....

Quote:

It's on off the shelf ARM board, so yeah you can run anything on it that exist as an image for. Since there is no (ARM)native AmigaOS that not an option. ARM native AROS or 68k AmigaOS inside any ARM based emulator should be trivial.

An image for? Why do I keep hearing this more and more nowadays?

I can find one reason why a pure install is better than an image :

Retro machine install Amiga os 3.2.2, that CF is readable by Amiga OS4.x and I can transfer files straight from aminet downloads onto said CF....
Whereas an image I can not.... that may be frustrating if one does not have other means to get information onto a particular system...

Thankfully, the system in question does have hot swap SD capacity, so but still, my point made on why generally I'd prefer an installed version rather than an image.

ALBEIT you were perhaps talking about a different type of image here than for my purposes, so, I can appreciate that.

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@ppcamiga1

PiStorm is not Shit, it is very good. There is just no way to buy "new" Hardware that is 30years old. Like nobody need 16bit Pcmcia Cards not even then. Today you get only crap on ebay, i buy like 3 cards for prices abnormal. All not working, becouse it is just OLD Shit Hardware. I buy so many things that only troubles, defectiv or something. Then try to get a real 68060 this is like a Joke, they want even for a Cheap China Copy prices like 300-400euros. For Fake 68060 rev6 Cpus thats real.

It is like first they make money out of retro lover and now the next step they sell defective Hardware to retro lovers for the same price. Well it make them money before, so why should they stop ?

The PiStorm is a NEW Hardware that take away many things that would cost arround 3000euros together. RTS, CPU, Wlan, Soundcard, USB, Fast Harddrive Connection, HDMI Out, Digital Audio Out.... Yes find all this together and a PiStorm with a Pi4 or Pi5 is burning like 2000Mips.

I can play Mp3, Browse, Watch Movies (VCD), all that things that would be impossible on Stock or 68030. RTS Games just flow, like VanillaTD, VanillaRA.. and the last PiStorm and CaffeineOS is very stable.

My 1200 PiStorm is sometimes 5-6 Hours online without break, without reset. No Guru or something.

Maybe i get a lucky Patch of PiStorm but i never had a better experiance of Amiga without troubles. When you want more performace just swap the Pi against a newer Version, like Pi5 have 50% faster GFX, 30% Faster CPU. Just not yet supportet by Caffeine, only AmiKit.

When you dont OWN PPC, RTS all this things, it is a very good Way to access all this NG Amiga stuff without troubles.

@Gebrochen

Quote:

Gebrochen wrote: An image for? Why do I keep hearing this more and more nowadays?

An "image" in the sense of a file you put onto a (Mirco)SD to get whatever OS you want booting.

Remember these SBCs usually don't have any onboard FirmWare/Bootloader but will just hit that SD card on power on.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada