@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @agami The "A900"

I think we have a winner. Nice work.

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@kolla

Since the Amiga keyboard doesn't have Home/End keys, it's very important to be able to hold Shift with the thumb when operating the arrow keys. That's not possible with this design.

Without proper home/end (shift+right/left) functionality on the keyboard it gets stupid slow to write code when one very frequently needs to navigate to the beginning or end of a line.

Some people seem to resort to the mouse which is just so painful to watch, or just tap like crazy on the arrow keys (since no-one seem to know how to set faster key-repeat speed).

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@Deniil715

I don't use end nor home, usually use shift, never use the thumb and my keyboard shift is more or less on the same spot. I use both hands while I am writing. Am I expected to use o LG one hand? I am quite puzzled with the issue you're bringing

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agami Quote:

I think we have a winner. Nice work.

I think better is possible.

1. Widen the keyboard part of the case to the width of the wider top/back part.
logic: box shipping width is based on wide part not narrow part

2. Reduce the space to the left of the keyboard and right of the keypad by at least half each while enlarging the space between the keyboard and keypad.
logic: other reduced size keyboards do it

3. There should be roughly enough room to realign the top of the keyboard and keypad by moving the keypad down and to the right. Now there is room for the delete key above the backspace key and the help key above the keypad. It is also possible to add 12 function keys and potentially a num lock and other toggle keys above the keypad.
logic: better use of space, better ergonomics with DEL above backspace and more keys possible

4. Emboss "Amiga" and model number in the middle of the back/top part of case mold. Move the power and drive LEDs to the back/top part of the case above with a flat space in the right end of the molding. Now remove the area where the current Amiga model and LEDs are reducing the case depth.
logic: box/shipping size now reduced

Think outside the "Amiga" box. A new Amiga SBC can be tiny. The question is whether to leave the case somewhat larger for a CD-ROM, floppy drive, cooling and/or better Amiga recognition.

Deniil715 Quote:

Since the Amiga keyboard doesn't have Home/End keys, it's very important to be able to hold Shift with the thumb when operating the arrow keys. That's not possible with this design. Without proper home/end (shift+right/left) functionality on the keyboard it gets stupid slow to write code when one very frequently needs to navigate to the beginning or end of a line. Some people seem to resort to the mouse which is just so painful to watch, or just tap like crazy on the arrow keys (since no-one seem to know how to set faster key-repeat speed).

The Amiga numeric keypad has home, end, page up and page down keys for navigation. A separate num lock key with LED indicator above the keypad may make it easier to switch between numbers and navigation/edit mode.

Last edited by matthey on 08-Jan-2025 at 12:45 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Jan-2025 at 12:44 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 08-Jan-2025 at 12:42 AM.

@Deniil715

Quote:

Deniil715 wrote: Since the Amiga keyboard doesn't have Home/End keys, it's very important to be able to hold Shift with the thumb when operating the arrow keys. That's not possible with this design.

Very important?

People generally have another thumb, or does the key combo not work with L Shift.

If it only works with R Shift, then I could say that it's equally "very important" to learn new key press gestures. One could hold down R Shift with their index finger, using their thumb on Left Arrow, alternating the middle finger on Up and Down Arrows, and their ring finger on the Right Arrow.

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@kolla

Quote:

new key caps from A1200.net, and people have found a couple of ways to attach them to commonly available key switches

Thanks. I did not know that. I will investigate further. Although on first glance, they do say they only support Misumi, which wouldn't really work for me (the entire point is that I have a couple of keyboards where the broken thing is the flex circuit itself).

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@agami

My laptop has left under - and up/down/right under shift, which honestly works ok, I can hold shift with the middle or ring finger while navigating with thumb, index and pinky.

But kolla's suggestion seems to just about not work with that either, so I think I agree Deniil715 here.

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This weeks pet peeve:
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@Deniil715

Quote:

That's not possible with this design

Then it is also not possible with the current A600 and A1000 keyboards.

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@matthey

Quote:

1. Widen the keyboard part of the case to the width of the wider top/back part. logic: box shipping width is based on wide part not narrow part

Note, I’m not suggesting a new Amiga system, just the keyboards - my "need" is a keyboard for the A1000 that fits in the "garage" and is key-complete compared to the original.

Quote:

Think outside the "Amiga" box. A new Amiga SBC can be tiny. The question is whether to leave the case somewhat larger for a CD-ROM, floppy drive, cooling and/or better Amiga recognition.

We cannot afford to think outside the box and also be realistic. That’s why I specifically don’t change the size of the keys, the most realistic option is to only use keys which come with the A1200.net key cap kit (I have several already).

Quote:

The Amiga numeric keypad has home, end, page up and page down keys for navigation. A separate num lock key with LED indicator above the keypad may make it easier to switch between numbers and navigation/edit mode.

That’s not how it works - AmigaOS has no concept of numlock and no machanism to turn it on or off with a led, only certain programs do. We _actual_ Amiga users use the shortcuts of the OS and those are the qualifiers + arrow keys.

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@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @kolla (the entire point is that I have a couple of keyboards where the broken thing is the flex circuit itself).

You must have been away for a while - there are replacement membranes available :)

Last edited by kolla on 08-Jan-2025 at 06:20 PM.

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@olegil

Interesting did you come online after server reinstall / reboot, are you sure your real?

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Jan-2025 at 07:48 PM.

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@Deniil715

Quote:

Without proper home/end (shift+right/left) functionality on the keyboard it gets stupid slow to write code when one very frequently needs to navigate to the beginning or end of a line.

Beware, the OS developers have decided to change this - shift is becoming the "mark text" qualifier, ctrl is qualifier for "home" and "end", and alt is qualifier for "page" and "word". And one can combine them.

Anyways, I see what you mean, with an ordinary full keyboard, the arrow keys are so far to the right that you typically will move right hand to them and thumb the shift, yes. However, if you are on an A600 (or A1000) keyboard, the arrow keys are available immediately right under/right of the shift, and you end up using the shift on the left. I actually had to sit down and pay attention to what I was doing, as apparently I adopt to this difference automatically without much thought, so for me it's not a problem.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @olegil Interesting did you come online after server reinstall / reboot, are you sure your real?

Well, I THINK I am real. Cogito ergo sum?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.