@Thread

Maybe we could get The Register or a large tech media site to cover this and further drag Hyperion's name through the mud. It might deter further investment and crater this company once and for all?!
OS3.2 happened and I'm grateful but it isn't worth this turmoil. Boycott Hyperion until they back the heck off!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 09:23 AM.

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@Hans

Quote:

Nope. There is zero evidence that he has control of Hyperion, and therefore dictates what happens.

One does not need control over a company to spread disinformation and rumours.

Quote:

You really have no clue what's going on inside the company. Nor do I, although I probably know a bit more than you.

QED.

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@BigD

Quote:

Boycott Hyperion until they back the heck off!

While I totally agree on the boycott part, I also find it unlikely that this controversy is caused by Hyperion - they're just in for the grabs. For decades we've had emulation systems and FPGA systems being sold with OS licenses from Cloanto, without _anyone_, not even Hyperion, raising an eyebrow. So what's changed? Here's a wild speculation... someone with interest in a competing product has been coercing the partners of RGL with some "inside information" (tapping index finger at side of nose) regarding the "legality" on the matter of the software in use, while pointing at Hyperion.

But who on earth would have any interest in doing so?!

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@matthey

Quote:

Trevor is the mastermind

Oh don't let your wild imagination stop there - say "puppeteer", pretty please!

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@kolla

Obviously, Amigakit have a vested interest in delaying their competition but that would be low even for them. Trademarks are their thing so they'd go after the use of "A1200"TM instead wouldn't they if they wanted trouble?

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@Thread

As previously stated, it would be great to have some outside investigative journalism to rip this wide open and name and shame the people that want to litigate ongoing about IP and trademarks that they have dubious claims to! Dealing with clueless judges, barristers and so called "legal experts" draining this niche hobby of the last bit of value will be noticed and should lead to boycotts by the remaining customer base. The irony is that Amigakit think it is RGL/Plaion that are the ones draining this hobby of money and investment!!!

P.S. I'm not blaming AmigaKit for this and hope that they are prepared to duke it out with RGL in the commercial space and are not attempting to influence Hyperion behind the scenes (who they don't show support for in the commercial sense of actually selling their products).

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 10:08 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 10:07 AM.

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@matthey

Quote:

If the nullification of Ben's Hyperion stock is true, Trevor would own a much higher percentage of Hyperion now.

Obviously.

Hyperion's website stated:
Quote:

The general assembly followed the bankruptcy of Hyperion Entertainment’s largest shareholder, Ben Hermans BV, which, under Belgian law, resulted in the annulment of its shares.

I don't understand your "IF" here.

The question remains whether the court's decision is being challenged, not what they have already ruled, right?

#6

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@Thread

I feel the only way forward with this subject on here is a poll of what RGL/Plaion should do next. The madness of Hyperion challenging Amiga Corp's right to license their own code and IP seems to mean nothing in the courts (or if it does it will take years to sort out) so this is simply a question of whether they settle or fight?

I think considering the precedent of Commodore's XOR Court Case, the Amiga Curse, the A1200NG eating their breakfast in the meantime, all things considered; THEY SHOULD PAY THE PIPER AND MOVE ON WITH THE PROCESS OF MAKING MONEY AS ALL THESE IP SQUATTERS SHOULD BE DOING!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 01:28 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @kolla Obviously, Amigakit have a vested interest in delaying their competition but that would be low even for them.

And if not AmigaKit?

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kolla Quote:

License for what exactly? Kickstart 34.5 and 40.068 for use with WHDLoad (which essentially is all that the RGL products are about)? Hyperion don't hold any rights on those, and are in no position to grant any licenses for them. For OS 3.2? Hyperion does not have rights to distribute OS 3.2 for emulators, such as the RGL systems, as such rights were granted Cloanto like 3 decades ago. Even ThoR doesn't grasp how Hyperion is supposed to fit into this.

The 2009 settlement only mentions the Software specifically defined as AmigaOS 3.1 so Hyperion can not provide a complete license for WHDLoad Kickstarts. Ben@Hyperion has very liberally interpreted the 2009 settlement agreement to license other versions of the classic AmigaOS and Kickstarts in a challenge and encroachment of Amiga IP ownership while Cloanto has been conservative about their interpretation. Cloanto contributed to development and has copyrights on changes to the AmigaOS which Amiga Inc did not object to. They were also exposing the AmigaOS UI and and using the "AmigaOS" trademark without objection. Preexisting licenses are grandfathered into the 2009 settlement agreement so Cloanto can continue to do everything that Amiga Inc allowed them to do before. Hyperion has, likely deliberately, changed their interpretation over time which is history revisionism.

kolla Quote:

While I totally agree on the boycott part, I also find it unlikely that this controversy is caused by Hyperion - they're just in for the grabs. For decades we've had emulation systems and FPGA systems being sold with OS licenses from Cloanto, without _anyone_, not even Hyperion, raising an eyebrow. So what's changed? Here's a wild speculation... someone with interest in a competing product has been coercing the partners of RGL with some "inside information" (tapping index finger at side of nose) regarding the "legality" on the matter of the software in use, while pointing at Hyperion. But who on earth would have any interest in doing so?!

Multiple people have come to the same conclusion that RGL partners were likely coerced. I suspect the legal threats came from Hyperion or AmigaKit. If AmigaKit, proxies of Trevor are working together to expand their challenge of Amiga IP ownership. The source in common is Trevor/A-Eon from which the financing flows out and Amiga IP in. I do not believe this is the first coercion under duress. I believe the 2009 settlement agreement was illegally coerced under financial duress. I believe the sublicense from Hyperion was illegally coerced using Ben's embezzlement as leverage. Other Amiga IP obtained from Hyperion may have been coerced under financial duress as well. For a definition of illegal coercion under duress and how this can void contracts, see my post #73 earlier in this thread.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=45449&forum=8&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0#878339

It looks to me like we have a problem of coercion under duress that originates from the same source when following the money trail. Other people see nothing at all though.

#6 Quote:

I don't understand your "IF" here. The question remains whether the court's decision is being challenged, not what they have already ruled, right?

I have heard hearsay from two sources that Ben's Hyperion shares were nullified and I believe this is true. I have seen government documents that the shares were not initially nullified so I do not know for sure. Any nullification may be undone which may mean it was never officially done too. I'm just being careful what I say.

@kolla

Quote:

And if not AmigaKit?

I honestly don't think Apollo Team or Claude/Michal care what RGL or AmigaKit do. If you mean A-EON then I'd say the A1222+/X5000 are not in the same market. Trevor owns THEA500 Mini and likes collecting ALL the machines. He wouldn't try and delay this IMHO and would benefit if Hyperion went bust!

Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 10:45 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 10:45 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 11-Apr-2025 at 10:43 PM.

_________________
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@BigD

Quote:

Trevor owns THEA500 Mini and likes collecting ALL the machines.

And?

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He wouldn't try and delay this

Why do we (and even themselves at times) refer to them as "aeonkit"? Isn’t he a share holder of AmigaKit?

Quote:

and would benefit if Hyperion went bust!

Would he? How? Isn’t he a share holder also of Hyperion? Is he not the one who has kept Hyperion afloat (and just that) all these years? Isn’t he the one who could have a tiny bit of credibility when contacting RGL’s partners?

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Thread Maybe we could get The Register or a large tech media site to cover this and further drag Hyperion's name through the mud. It might deter further investment and crater this company once and for all?! OS3.2 happened and I'm grateful but it isn't worth this turmoil. Boycott Hyperion until they back the heck off!

That's contradictory: it's OS 3.2 (and 3.1.4 before) which is giving the fuel to Hyperion for continuing the lawsuit!


@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @BigD Quote: Boycott Hyperion until they back the heck off! While I totally agree on the boycott part

...but you've bought Hyperion's ROMs!

@cdimauro

Yeah, and this IS the fruit of it! I bought into all that apathetic rubbish such as, "We just love working on the code for the love of the Amiga!" from the foolish OS3.2 devs. However, Hyperion not only don't pay them but they use the money they should reinvest into coding, into a legal war chest! There is now now excuse to support their business and I regret buying OS3.2. They are a malevolent force in the Amiga cottage industry and are holding us back in many ways!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@cdimauro

3.1.4 yes, I did, for the Minimig, so I apparently was in violation of the license. But since I was told by the OS developers that the license text was just legal blarb with nonsense conditions that one can chose to ignore… that’s what I’ve been doing since.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @cdimauro Yeah, and this IS the fruit of it! I bought into all that apathetic rubbish such as, "We just love working on the code for the love of the Amiga!" from the foolish OS3.2 devs. However, Hyperion not only don't pay them but they use the money they should reinvest into coding, into a legal war chest! There is now now excuse to support their business and I regret buying OS3.2. They are a malevolent force in the Amiga cottage industry and are holding us back in many ways!

Where you aware of the legal situation? If yes, that you should have refrained from buying it.

The situation was well known even before that OS 3.1.4 was released. You talked about OS 3.2, which was even more late...


@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro 3.1.4 yes, I did, for the Minimig, so I apparently was in violation of the license. But since I was told by the OS developers that the license text was just legal blarb with nonsense conditions that one can chose to ignore… that’s what I’ve been doing since.

The OS developers? The ones that put the "exclusive rights" inside those ROMs?

Not so much trustable, right?

They are developers and not lawyers, right, but even those legal concepts should be elementary stuff that they should be aware of.

Developers are not exempted by knowing some basic concepts, IF they deliver commercial products. In fact, on serious companies you've periodical trainings specifically about that, so that you understand the basics. And they are periodic to refresh them.

Anyway, see above my reply to BigD: you should have already known the legal mess, before buying the 3.1.4. Why have you decided to support The Empire of Evil?

@cdimauro

Yes, it is regrettable. I spoke to Trevor about my buyer's remorse due to my belief it perpetuates the legal battles. He made light of it. I guess we reap what we sow?!

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@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: Why have you decided to support The Empire of Evil?

Because it is no empire, and it was beer money. I found great joy in reporting Hyperion to the European Commission for breaking various consumer rights, from "shrink wrap licensing" to ridiculous license conditions and as a result, Hyperion had to present the license on their web page. They never got around to change the license before everything OS3 was pulled from their web shop all-together.

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@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro Quote: cdimauro wrote: Why have you decided to support The Empire of Evil? Because it is no empire, and it was beer money. I found great joy in reporting Hyperion to the European Commission for breaking various consumer rights, from "shrink wrap licensing" to ridiculous license conditions and as a result, Hyperion had to present the license on their web page. They never got around to change the license before everything OS3 was pulled from their web shop all-together.

LOL. Well done, then!