@BigD

Quote:

UrbX Warriors is a new IP!!! I'm not following you at all TBH! If they were in talks to get the game bundled with THEA1200NG then fair enough but you have no new information regarding said machine or RGL!

Eh? What?

I never mentioned anything about "UrbX", whatever that is. Nor did I mention 1200NG.

I said the Spectrum Next announced Amiga (and C64).
"another way to run an Amiga" just means "this is another company that intends to make use of the Amiga IP.

Lastly I said "they stressed licensing and legality", which they had to do. RGL had to do the same.

I am not sure what you don't understand here, sorry.

Maybe this will help?

Quote:

So we reached out to the friends at Cloanto, makers of the awesome Amiga Forever and C64 Forever, on a chance meeting over the weekend at RetCon conference in the UK (Thank you Martyn! Thank you Steve!), and managed to get their blessing to officially license the C64 ROMs – super thanks to Michael Battilana for his support on the spot, just minutes before we went up on stage (talk about winging it), what an amazing guy. This means the Next will be able to legally run a C64 core hassle-free – aka The Next64. We’re still ironing out the details, but hopefully the Issue 3 will ship with this new core and it will be available to every existing Next user out there for free as we intend to back-license (is this a word?) the C64 ROMs for the existing backers of KS1 and KS2 so they are licensed to run it in their machines too free of charge (we’ll pick up the bill!)

#6

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@matthey

I note you didn't comment on this:

Trademark filing for A1200

Do you see any reason for this filing other than the obvious reason?

#6

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#6 Quote:

I note you didn't comment on this: Trademark filing for A1200 Do you see any reason for this filing other than the obvious reason?

A US trademark for "A1200" strengthens the Amiga Corporation and RGL legal position against AmigaKit if they can get it. I thought the USPTO did not allow simple and common numbers and strings but maybe the addition of the font Commodore often used will make it allowable. I would not be surprised if RGL sells more THEA1200s in the UK where AmigaKit has a stronger claim but any litigation awards may exclude US sales if they get the US trademark. The US has more than 5 times the population of the UK yet I would not be surprised if THEA1200 sales in the UK are better. There was that much difference in marketing. Some of it may have been due to the poor reputation of Jack Tramiel in North America too. Credit to David Pleasance and the guys at Commodore UK.

@matthey

Experimental AI give a starting point that can easily be further researched:
Quote:

can you trademark a model #

Although you might not get the same response I did.

In addition, if you read the paperwork for the filing you might find it interesting.
Declaration and Signature indicates it could be "for use in commerce" or it could be because "already used in commerce" or both.

I'll be curious if this follows a path I have seen before, that "might" require some back and forth with uspto to clarify.

#6

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@number6

So you meant that they also announced Amiga emulation on the Spectrum Next. You should have said so. I guess it is the same as running Win-UAE on the PC, you just buy Amiga Forever for the Roms. Job done.

Both THEA500 Mini and THEA1200 come with the Roms baked in! Far simpler than the Spectrum Next or even the A600GS or A1200NG.

UrbX Warriors is the most exciting game announcement for the Spectrum Next led by ex-Amiga developers Tony Warriner and Stoo Campbell. An AGA Amiga version will come later.

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@#6
The short answer is yes, a model number can be trademarked in some cases in the US. It is weaker to use a common and/or simple trademark though. A good example was Intel changing from 586, 80586 or i586 to Pentium. Protecting "586" and even "80586" is short and may not be allowed while it may be possible to trademark "i586" but it is shorter than "A1200". "Pentium" turned out to be a solid name to trademark. Cyrix produced 5x86 and 6x86 CPUs which would have been more difficult to distinguish without the name change.

It is too bad that it has become necessary to trademark Amiga model numbers to protect from Amiga IP squatters and litigators. I expect lawyers recommended it. It is more money wasted on Amiga legal battles rather than competitive Amiga hardware.

@matthey

Yep, I decided against an A1200 trademark emblazoned dust cover for that reason.

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@BigD

Quote:

Both THEA500 Mini and THEA1200 come with the Roms baked in!

Wtf do you mean by “baked in�?

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@matthey

What would be the point of trademarking “A1200� when there’s already a whole range of products that carry that name, from a various manufacturers?

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@kolla

Examples?

btw-there is no existing trademark for A1200 at uspto unless their website search is incorrrect.
The only listed filing, which would no doubt be seeking "registration" as an end goal, is from Amiga Corporation.

#6

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@number6

There’s been Apple A1200, Canon A1200, Motorola A1200 and quite a few more.

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@BigD

TheA500 mini uses rom image files on a storage medium and runs linux and a software emulator.
Its no more baked in than is is using an fpga system (or softkicking a real amiga),
The spectrum next is an fpga system and doesnt use software emulation.
Youve got it backwards. Its far simpler for spectrum next. Its using the core thats been in development for well over a decade and doesnt require a host operating system or a software Amiga emulator.

@kolla

Perhaps "bundle in".

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@Thread

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: The spectrum next is an fpga system and doesnt use software emulation.

If you have it in a software emulator under a decent OS, you can add features the original system didn't have.

Example:
USB Flash drive reader
SD-Card reader
TCP/IP for file access

Raspi like systems got so cheap and powerful, beating them with an FPGA will be hard, even if the idea of 'real hardware' seems better than just an emulator.

@OneTimer1

Quote:

you can add features the original system didn't have

What you mention here is not exclusive for software emulation, all this can be added when using FPGA as well, some FPGA systems (like MiSTer) has an ARM CPU with Linux as well, providing both functionality and features for the FPGA Amiga.

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kolla Quote:

What would be the point of trademarking “A1200� when there’s already a whole range of products that carry that name, from a various manufacturers?

It is likely a defensive move against the Amiga IP squatting of the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate.

https://www.amigakit.com/legal.html Quote:

Trademarks AMIGA KIT® is a registered trade mark in the United Kingdom, Australia, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Canada and New Zealand. amigakit.com™, AmigaKit™, Amiga Kit Technical™, AMIGA STORE®, Amiga Shop™, amigashop.com™, Arcade Evolution Amiga Joystick™, EasyNet Amiga™, EasyADF™, Amiga.org™, AmigaSYS™, A500™, A600®, A600GS™, A1200®, The A1200 NG™, A4000®, AK-Datatypes™, AmiBench™, Amibench-It's Here!™, Release V46® are either registered or common law trade marks of AmigaKit Ltd used in the United Kingdom and worldwide in other countries. This is not a comprehensive list of all AmigaKit Ltd trade marks. Our brand licencing policy is available to view by clicking here

Most uses of "Amiga" in the name are likely trademark violations including "AmigaKit", "Amiga Kit", "AmigaStore", "Amiga Store", "AmigaShop", "Amiga Shop", "Arcade Evolution Amiga Joystick" and "EasyNet Amiga". Amiga model numbers would be more difficult to enforce but the AmigaKit website makes it clear who started trademarking Amiga model numbers in order to try to legitimize their use. They use the original Commodore model number font for Amiga computers and peripherals so if it is possible to violate model number trademarks, they may have done it. The purpose is likely to stop counterfeit products and AmigaKit Amiga IP use is close to original and licensed Amiga products in some cases. Even worse, AmigaKit not only claims ownership of some Amiga IP but may license with royalties their registered and in some cases likely stolen Amiga IP.

https://www.amigakit.com/licencing.php Quote:

Licencing our brands For over two decades AmigaKit Ltd has been a proud member of a vibrant and innovative community. This has yielded a breadth of new hardware and software products from many talented and knowledgable individuals. AmigaKit has also contributed with it's own product range employing developers within our community. AmigaKit has a range of trademarks that offer protection for the product range that we have been supplying to the community for over twenty years. These marks offer important safeguards from external commercial entities that may exploit our hard work or attempt to limit/block our product range. AmigaKit is highly supportive of community products and the micro businesses that operate within our niche. We want to offer our support, and encourage innovative developments. We know this is the key to growing the user base of our community. If you are a micro business or individual making a good quality product for the benefit of our community, you deserve the profits and success. We can agree royalty free trademark licencing to a community project that presents us with their proposal for a good quality product that will enhance the brand. If you have a proposal, we would be pleased to hear from you. Please get in contact with us through email.

Hyperion has also violated Amiga IP with impunity resulting in the current Amiga lawsuits. Is this not a conspiracy to steal Amiga IP by the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate all connected to Trevor Dickinson?

A good example of the extensive use of Amiga IP by AmigaKit can be seen at their booth at Retcon 2025.

Retcon 2025 - The Retro Gaming Festival
https://youtu.be/8VHbofzpur4?t=81

On display is "AmigaKit", "A1200 NG" including on an A1200 case, "A600GS", several Amiga check marks, etc. Maybe some of it is licensed from the owner of the Amiga IP and some of it AmigaKit claims to be the owner and may demand a license and royalties from others. It is like Hyperion where they say negotiate with us for the 68k AmigaOS and Amiga Kickstart ROMs but they never had a license for anything before AmigaOS 3.1 and never had an exclusive license for AmigaOS 3.1.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Jun-2025 at 07:55 PM.

@matthey

So then this very site is also a violation.

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@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: So then this very site is also a violation.

Forums, fan sites, clubs, fall under "fair use".

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agami Quote:

Forums, fan sites, clubs, fall under "fair use".

Right, "Amigaworld" is fair use, different category and not claiming ownership with a trademark like AmigaWorldâ„¢. AmigaKitâ„¢ is using the trademark "Amiga" extensively, claims ownership of Amiga IP by trademarking Amiga IP using "Amiga", use Amiga IP trademarks on Amiga related computers and peripherals in the same category thus competing with the owner, use Amiga IP fonts and perhaps copy/counterfeit existing Amiga licensed products (Amiga/A1200 cases?) and even a new "Amiga Technologies" business was created by the same squatters/usurpers.

As I recall, a former Amiga.org owner asked for and received permission to use the name "Amiga.org" and specific Amiga related IP for their logo. However, that does not mean they can use other "Amiga" containing trademarked names other than "Amiga.org" or create products that compete with the Amiga trademark owner. It does not mean they can use other Amiga IP logos other than the "Amiga.org" logo like using the boingball or checkmark logo by themselves (A-Eon may have a valid limited sublicense from Hyperion to use the boingball logo if they filled out and submitted "Exhibit 3" of the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement in time). It does not mean that a change of amiga.org ownership allows the new owners wider use of Amiga IP. They may only have a license for Amiga IP and likely do not own it.

http://www.amiga.org/legal.html Quote:

Amiga.org is a registered trade mark of A-EON Technology Ltd and Leaman Computing Ltd in the United Kingdom and/or other countries. Amiga.org, Amiga.org logo are copyright © 1994-2019 A-EON Technology Ltd. Amiga Developer Network is copyright © 1997-2019 A-EON Technology Ltd. AmigaDeveloper.com is copyright © 2014-2019 A-EON Technolgy Ltd. Acknowledgments Amiga Kit is the authorised Amiga.org manufacturer, distributor and reseller of Amiga.org branded merchandise. Amiga Kit is a registered trade mark of Leaman Computing Ltd in Canada, New Zealand and/or other countries. Amiga Store is a registered trade mark of Leaman Computing Ltd in the United Kingdom.

"Amiga.org", "Amiga Kit" and "Amiga Store" are claimed trademarks using the "Amiga" trademark. Is a trademark a claim of ownership?

Google AI Overview Quote:

Yes, a trademark is a form of intellectual property that serves as a claim of ownership and the exclusive right to use a specific symbol, word, or phrase in connection with certain goods or services. Registration of a trademark provides public notice of that claim and offers legal presumption of ownership, according to the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO).

The point of a trademark is to protect the products and services of the owner. Someone else using and claiming your trademarks is claiming ownership of your IP. Hyperion has also registered Amiga IP trademarks in their name which is "challenging"..."ownership of the Licensed Marks by any Amiga Party or any successor" in violation of the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement.

https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2020-09-00005-EN.html Quote:

Hyperion withdraws opposition against registration of US trademark 'Amiga' In January 2017, Cloanto filed for registration of the 'Amiga' trademark with the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) - right after the previous owner Amiga, Inc. let its own registration expire. Hyperion opposed that registration and filed for several other Amiga-related trademarks ("AmigaOS", "AmigaOne", Boingball) itself, encountering a few administrative issues initially. The trademark disputes grinded to a halt shortly after that, mostly caused by the lawsuits that had been filed by Hyperion on one side and Cloanto as well as the 'Amiga parties' on the other side. But in the last few days, new filings have been submitted: Hyperion's lawyer is informing the USPTO that his client is withdrawing its opposition against Cloanto's registration of the 'Amiga' mark. Hyperion's attempt to register the BoingBall logo has been abandoned this week as well. Note from staff: Since the USPTO is already pointing out a "likelihood of confusion" of the other marks Hyperion applied for (AmigaOne, AmigaOS) with Cloanto's 'Amiga' mark, we assume that these attempted registrations will be denied once Cloanto's mark is registered. We currently have no information about the reasons behind Hyperion's change of strategy.

This is just one way of many ways the 2009 settlement agreement could and should be nullified. As I recall, Cloanto was registering the US "Amiga" trademark for Amiga Inc and not themselves (Cloanto had a license to use the "Amiga" trademark so it remained in active use). Hyperion was registering Amiga IP in their name thus claiming ownership in violation of their license. The USPTO rejected new trademarks using the "Amiga" trademark including "AmigaOne" and "AmigaOS" do to "likelihood of confusion". I expect "AmigaKit", "AmigaStore", "AmigaShop" "Amiga.org", "AmigaWorld" ,"AmigaForever", etc. Amiga computer related trademark registration, with or without spaces, would be rejected by the USPTO also do to fitting under the umbrella of the "Amiga" trademark. Trademark registration in some other parts of the world is lax which the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate is exploiting to claim ownership of Amiga IP for themselves.

Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2025 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2025 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2025 at 01:05 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 07-Jun-2025 at 04:26 AM.

@fishy_fis

Quote:

You've got it backwards. Its far simpler for spectrum next. Its using the core thats been in development for well over a decade and doesnt require a host operating system or a software Amiga emulator.

So it's like the MiSTer core?

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