It's sad that the PPC Soc project derailed. Many Hundred thousand of $ lost.

Someone else care to continue the work on this? All documentations, nmigen (phyton based HDL) and so on ... still available.


https://libre-soc.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libre-SOC

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 07-May-2025 at 12:12 PM.

_________________
retired

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: For WinUAE's QEMU PPC beating AmigaOne G4 @ 1Ghz, it needs to be Intel AlderLake/RaptorLake or AMD Zen 4/Zen 5 level. I don't have access to Intel ArrowLake.

I have some older laptops with Intel processors, but all but one of them is older (by at least 6-7 years). The one that isn't was my last work laptop from the company I worked at. They went insolvent on Feb 7, and all 2500 employees were out of work.

As far as I can tell, they shut down so quickly that they never asked for ANY of the IT hardware back. And since I was in IT as a Systems Engineer, I would have likely been told about it before the regular employees as my team was the one that managed the IT hardware.

That laptop is a newer one, not more than 2 years old, so I could try WinUAE on it. Just a bit time consuming to move the install and related files to another machine even with a 1 Gbit/s local LAN. There are three "drives" in the setup, with one of them being rather large at about 500 GByte or so (maybe 1 TB?).

Anyway, so far the emulated experience for PPC AmigaOS 4 is pretty underwhelming on everything I've tried it on (even on the Ryzen 9 5900X), and a bit flaky to keep it working. Even with the guides available in the forums I had to fiddle with a lot of the emulated hardware settings just to get it booting! Eventually I got it working smoothly, but there are some odd limitations in how much ram different bits can use and how OS 4 treats them, along with there really only seems to be one really good setup that works. Hence why I would not mind a new PPC system that isn't so crazy expensive like the recent ones have been.

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@DWolfman

For example, https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-ultra-7-265k/9.html
There's a significant performance difference between Zen 4 / Zen 5 vs Zen 3 with RPCS3 emulation.

AMD:
Ryzen 9 5900X = 35.9 fps
Ryzen 9 5950X = 36.4 fps
Ryzen 9 7950X = 51.3 fps

Intel:
"RaptorLake" Core i9-14900K = 50.5 fps
"RaptorLake" Core i7-14700K = 49.1 fps
"Arrow Lake" Core Ultra 9 285K = 50.2 fps

RPCS3 has a larger big-endian (BE) to little-endian (LE) conversion workload.

My main gaming machine has a Ryzen 9 9950X3D upgrade.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d/8.html
AMD:
Ryzen 9 9950X = 56.5 fps
Ryzen 9 9950X3D PBO = 56.3 fps
Ryzen 9 9950X3D = 55.8 fps

Intel:
"RaptorLake" Core i9-14900K = 50.4 fps

I decommissioned and sold most of my Zen 3 machines, including Ryzen 7 5800X3D and Ryzen 7 5700X.

For budget PC builds that targets BE-to-LE emulation, it's recommended to shift towards newer X86-64 microarchitectures.

Last edited by Hammer on 08-May-2025 at 01:50 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@thread

Proto #1 running Linux

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote: It's sad that the PPC Soc project derailed. Many Hundred thousand of $ lost. Someone else care to continue the work on this? All documentations, nmigen (phyton based HDL) and so on ... still available. https://libre-soc.org/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libre-SOC

https://git.libre-soc.org/?p=soc.git;a=tree

COPYING.LGPLv3

The license isn't so much commercial-friendly...

@number6

It's ALIVE

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____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@klx300r

Pretty much daily updates in discord, including today btw.

Amigans discord:
channels #hardware and #qemu

Official Commodore Amiga discord:
channel #next-gen

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@AmigaBlitter

Yeah pretty sad story... Amiga failed to die and prosper all at the same time...

Last edited by Matt3k on 11-May-2025 at 12:47 AM.

@Thread

It is nice to see the board running Linux

But:

1. We don't know the price
2. AOS4 fans don't know if their OS will ever be ported.
3. MOS fans may be waiting for an AMD64 version of their OS instead

---

I will take a look to AROS instead, EOT for this thread.

@cdimauro

Quote:

The license isn't so much commercial-friendly...

Why? Because it doesn’t allow “the business� to harass their customers with unreasonable and and insane “terms and conditions�?

As a customer, ie. "the market", I much prefer products that are GPL licensed.

Last edited by kolla on 11-May-2025 at 07:30 AM.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro Quote: The license isn't so much commercial-friendly... Why?

Simple: because it's a viral license.
Quote:

Because it doesn’t allow “the business� to harass their customers with unreasonable and and insane “terms and conditions�?

No, this isn't a consequence of have no viral license. I mean, it's not a protection against such bad behaviours that some companies MIGHT have.

And to be more clear, you don't need a viral license for avoiding them.
Quote:

As a customer, ie. "the market", I much prefer products that are GPL licensed.

Irrelevant: that's only YOUR preference, and it has nothing to do with the viralness of such licenses.

In fact, there are other licenses that are NOT viral like GPL ones, which are commercial-friendly, AND are still protecting the (original) sources (and their authors).
Hint: MPL (AROS' APL, which is derived by it).

Choosing a viral license is only a purely ideological stance, and nothing more.

DOUBLE.

Last edited by cdimauro on 11-May-2025 at 08:21 PM.

@number6

Running Linux PPC in LE mode would enable Box64 (x64) emulation, Radeon Vulkan, and Steam PC games to run on it. That's lessening the risk for the end user.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @number6 Running Linux PPC in LE mode would enable Box64 (x64) emulation, Radeon Vulkan, and Steam PC games to run on it. That's lessening the risk for the end user.

Or, and hear me out here, people can just buy a sub-$1,000 USD Ryzen/Radeon x64 personal computer and run their choice from a myriad of Linux distributions including SteamOS, with 6+ cores/12+ threads, all well above 2GHz, with super fast DDR5 RAM, PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs, high speed wired and wireless networking and Bluetooth, and plentiful high-speed USB connectivity.

They can play all the games from the past, emulating many systems including Amiga, and most of the latest titles. Orr they can spend hours and hours with KDE Plasma 6 to play the desktop look & feel game for which everyone seems to have great fondness.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

Not everyone who is into the Amiga wants to do that. Having choices is a great thing.

_________________

@agami

Quote:

Or, and hear me out here, people can just buy a sub-$1,000 USD Ryzen/Radeon x64 personal computer and run their choice from a myriad of Linux distributions including SteamOS, with 6+ cores/12+ threads, all well above 2GHz, with super fast DDR5 RAM, PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs, high speed wired and wireless networking and Bluetooth, and plentiful high-speed USB connectivity.

Note that AMD doesn't have "bang for the buck" superiority.

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#sort=price&F=99,103,98,104,101,102
For good BE to LE emulation, Intel AlderLake is the cheaper option e.g. Intel Core i3-12100F (without IGP, 4C/8T) for US$82.47 or Intel Core i5-12400F (without IGP, 6C/12T) for $108.99 or Intel Core i3-12100 (with IGP, 4C/8T) for US$113.60.

The cheapest Zen 4 solution is AMD's Ryzen 5 8500G (6C/12T) at $143.00. 8500G is not full L3 cache Zen 4 i.e. 8500G's Zen 4 has half L3 cache. The cheapest full L3 cache Zen 4 solution is Ryzen 7 7600 at $198.85.

After Windows 11 24H2 AMD optimizations and AM5 X3D releases, AMD's AM5 CPU prices weren't the budget option anymore.

AM5 still has superior platform support longevity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTIEDyPkm_s
SteamOS 3.8 running with Intel's older Core i7 9700 "Coffee Lake-R" with Radeon RX 5500 8GB VRAM example.


For good BE to LE emulation and PC gaming, AMD is the premium option while Intel is the budget option! I wouldn't recommend Zen 3/AM4 for PPC emulation when there is superior value from Intel. Intel being the superior budget option is LOL.


PowerPC has a specific use case in the embedded and server markets. The ability to fall back into mostly LE workloads as a mainstream entertainment device is a risk reduction for potential end users.

POWER-based servers are still selling with profitability for IBM.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-May-2025 at 06:56 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-May-2025 at 02:31 AM.

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7950X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

@thread

Quote:

skateman — 6:26 AM MOS porting starts this week already

Source: Official Commodore Amiga discord
Channel: Next-Gen

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

My initial thought when Mirari first popped up was "Troika Amy05 all over again."
I am pleased that my initial thought has been proved wrong.

_________________
I sold my SAM460ex lite... waiting for money to buy a Raspberry Pi... or a Classic A1000 with Buffee... or an A1222... and OS4.3 FE update 11

@thread

Reminder for anyone wishing to reply to this topic or ask questions in Discord:

Server: Amigans
Channel: Hardware

Server:Official Commodore Amiga
Channel: Next-Gen

Server:MorphOS
Channel : General
Channel: Hardware

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*