@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @cdimauro He means Zune.

In the past, sometimes. But majorly is repeated MUI, like a parrot.

To be more precise, he likes to have a Unix system (so, no AROS -> no Zune) and MUI.

Then, it's up to IT to provide MUI's sources...

@cdimauro

Quote:

And it remains completely irrelevant for the same reason which I've already tried to explain you, in vain, since you don't get it (which is the usual problem with you: you talk of things that you've no clue, at all).

You have no clue about Win3.11 Enhanced Mode requiring 386 PMMU. Demo PCX 2.1 (with disabled PMMU) version wrecked your argument. Don't assume.

Quote:

Talking about code density?

Again, deliver superior Quake scores over a 100 MHz Pentium.

Intel won the 1996 x86 clone war with Quake i.e. it culled Cyrix 6x86 from the PC market.

During 1996, I purchased a Pentium 150 over a CyberStorm 68060-50 based on my Quake estimates.

Both the PC and the proposed upgraded Amiga 3000 setup (Cyberstorm 060 + CyberGraphics 64) have the S3 Trio 64U-based graphics chipset.

I haven't left the wedge Amiga's target audience majority i.e. games.

The separate SPEC INT and FP benchmarks are different from the mixed integer/FP Quake codebase.

Quote:

Let me check my crystal ball... ah, yeah: it says that more instructions will be added to AVX-512 in future (and to other architectures as well), which require more 68k instructions to be emulated.

Wrong. AVX-512 Ice Lake extension level is real for desktop PCs. It's Intel's problem for flip-flopping on AVX-512, and Pat Gelsinger is fired i.e. outcomes are real.

Quote:

I reveal you a secret: the 68k CPU & FPU are already able to... directly address a memory operand... and use post-increment when accessing arrays.

Your NEx64T is fiction. "Two more weeks"(TM)

PS; I'm aware 68k CPU & FPU are already able to directly address a memory operand as scalar operations. Don't assume.

Quote:

In fact, how many 3D games were published for the Amiga?

I reveal you a secret: Commodore International Corporation went bankrupt.

Before Commodore International Corporation went bankrupt, Amiga Hombre targeted a texture-mapped 3D use case with about $50 BOM cost for CPU/GPU/Audio from two ASIC chips. The proposed Amiga CD32 replacement is "Amiga CD3D", note the "3D" in CD3D.
You can't do that with Motorola's 68LC060 / 68060 due to Motorola's higher asking price.
You can't do that with Motorola's 68LC040 / 68040 due to Motorola's higher asking price.

The current 68040 licensee is not selling it cheap.

Again, present a business plan with proper BOM costing with 68EC060/68LC060/68060 during the 1994-1995 time scale.

You haven't read Commodore - The Final Years' Amiga Hombre BOM price target to replace A1200 and CD32 SKUs. Motorola's 88000 was rejected due to cost!

You made many ignorant assumptions about Commodore's internal workings without reading the Commodore - The Final Years book. Are you too poor to buy Commodore - The Final Years ebook?

_________________

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @cdimauro Quote: And it remains completely irrelevant for the same reason which I've already tried to explain you, in vain, since you don't get it (which is the usual problem with you: you talk of things that you've no clue, at all). You have no clue about Win3.11 Enhanced Mode requiring 386 PMMU. Demo PCX 2.1 (with disabled PMMU) version wrecked your argument. Don't assume.

As usual, bots don't know the context / have no memory / don't understand, and mix up completely different things, as I've furtherly proved on the previous comment that I've just written here:
https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=41775&forum=2&start=1720&viewmode=flat&order=0#880628

Bots are a plague on the forums...
Quote:

Quote: Talking about code density? Again, deliver superior Quake scores over a 100 MHz Pentium. Intel won the 1996 x86 clone war with Quake i.e. it culled Cyrix 6x86 from the PC market. During 1996, I purchased a Pentium 150 over a CyberStorm 68060-50 based on my Quake estimates. Both the PC and the proposed upgraded Amiga 3000 setup (Cyberstorm 060 + CyberGraphics 64) have the S3 Trio 64U-based graphics chipset. I haven't left the wedge Amiga's target audience majority i.e. games. The separate SPEC INT and FP benchmarks are different from the mixed integer/FP Quake codebase.

Same as above: bots don't understand the context and write of completely different things. Hopeless...
Quote:

Quote: Let me check my crystal ball... ah, yeah: it says that more instructions will be added to AVX-512 in future (and to other architectures as well), which require more 68k instructions to be emulated. Wrong. AVX-512 Ice Lake extension level is real for desktop PCs.

Bot's do NOT understand sarcasm, and this is clearly a further proof that they aren't (and can't be) like human beings...
Quote:

It's Intel's problem for flip-flopping on AVX-512, and Pat Gelsinger is fired i.e. outcomes are real.

Completely unrelated things: typical of bots which don't understand concepts / facts, and mix them up.
Quote:

Quote: I reveal you a secret: the 68k CPU & FPU are already able to... directly address a memory operand... and use post-increment when accessing arrays. Your NEx64T is fiction. "Two more weeks"(TM)

Another proof that bots have no memory, since an answer was already given.
Quote:

PS; I'm aware 68k CPU & FPU are already able to directly address a memory operand as scalar operations. Don't assume.

I assumed, and continue to assume, because the bot has reported specific sentences regarding a precise context. Hence my previous reply. Which proves, again, that bots don't know the context and, in general, have no clue of what they report.
Quote:

Quote: In fact, how many 3D games were published for the Amiga? I reveal you a secret: Commodore International Corporation went bankrupt.

I reveal you another secrets: 3D games were published for the Amiga way before that Commodore went bankrupt.
Quote:

Before Commodore International Corporation went bankrupt, Amiga Hombre targeted a texture-mapped 3D use case with about $50 BOM cost for CPU/GPU/Audio from two ASIC chips. The proposed Amiga CD32 replacement is "Amiga CD3D", note the "3D" in CD3D. You can't do that with Motorola's 68LC060 / 68060 due to Motorola's higher asking price. You can't do that with Motorola's 68LC040 / 68040 due to Motorola's higher asking price. The current 68040 licensee is not selling it cheap. Again, present a business plan with proper BOM costing with 68EC060/68LC060/68060 during the 1994-1995 time scale. You haven't read Commodore - The Final Years' Amiga Hombre BOM price target to replace A1200 and CD32 SKUs. Motorola's 88000 was rejected due to cost!

Again, nothing about the code density, plus you continue to do not understand that a project like that would have been a complete failure.

You can reduce the costs as much as you want, but a PA-RISC without a HUGE amount of caches is doomed to have very poor performance.

I've already reported the Atari's Jaguar example, but bots have no memory and they don't understand...
Quote:

You made many ignorant assumptions about Commodore's internal workings without reading the Commodore - The Final Years book.

I've read enough to understand the situation. Yes, the thing here is that you do NOT understand what you report, so you're not able to figure out the overall situation and draw proper conclusions. Anyway, that's too hard for bots...
Quote:

Are you too poor to buy Commodore - The Final Years ebook?

I don't even comment here, since bots are very known do derail and hallucinating...

@cdimauro

Quote:

As usual, bots don't know the context / have no memory / don't understand, and mix up completely different things, as I've furtherly proved on the previous comment that I've just written here: https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=41775&forum=2&start=1720&viewmode=flat&order=0#880628

Countered by
https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43330&forum=16&start=560&viewmode=flat&order=0#880079

You're still wrong about Windows 3.1's enhanced mode. Ignorant fool.

PCX V2.1 demo has disabled 386 MMU. Ignorant fool. This is not a theory.

There's a thing called EMM386. Ignorant fool.

It's a good thing Compaq 386AT/Intel 386/Xenix 386/Microsoft Windows 386/EMM386 camp guaranteed i386 PMMU standard and didn't follow idiots like you.

Wintel camp created their 32-bit memory-protected/32-bit preemptive multitasking USA C2-rated OS future.

Cheapo MIPS R3041 and R3050 have embedded MMU, ignorant fool. There's a thing called "being competitive" for the money.

https://www.electronicproducts.com/mips-processors-to-push-performance-and-price/
From 1992, IDT MIPS R3040 @ 20 Mhz has $15 price, that 68LC040 near-1 IPC class with a budget price.

PlayStation 1's LSI Logic R3050 selection is a no-brainer.

R3041 is a $15 R3000 variant with an embedded MMU. Motorola continues to price the MMU-equipped 68030 not competitively i.e. follow the Intel 386DX price guide, until AMD surprises them with aggressive Am386-40 prices.

68K exited from the best-selling 32-bit/64-bit game consoles.

Motorola deserved to exit (being thrown out) from the gaming desktop computer market.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Aug-2025 at 04:40 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Aug-2025 at 04:37 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Aug-2025 at 04:32 AM.

_________________

@cdimauro

it is obvious
cd mauro want to switch from ppc cd mauro should provide mui sources

cd mauro stop trolling start working on zune

@ppcamiga1

X86? Really?
Why you not happy with what we have
Buy a Mac instead😀

_________________
AmigaOne X5000, AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 special super 2 cores prepared super edition v75 christmas speciale uniqe quadro prepared AmigaOS... TWO MORE YEARS IS NOTHING IF YOU BEEN WAITING SINCE 1994..

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @cdimauro Quote: As usual, bots don't know the context / have no memory / don't understand, and mix up completely different things, as I've furtherly proved on the previous comment that I've just written here: https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=41775&forum=2&start=1720&viewmode=flat&order=0#880628 Countered by https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43330&forum=16&start=560&viewmode=flat&order=0#880079 You're still wrong about Windows 3.1's enhanced mode. Ignorant fool. PCX V2.1 demo has disabled 386 MMU. Ignorant fool. This is not a theory. There's a thing called EMM386. Ignorant fool. It's a good thing Compaq 386AT/Intel 386/Xenix 386/Microsoft Windows 386/EMM386 camp guaranteed i386 PMMU standard and didn't follow idiots like you. Wintel camp created their 32-bit memory-protected/32-bit preemptive multitasking USA C2-rated OS future. Cheapo MIPS R3041 and R3050 have embedded MMU, ignorant fool. There's a thing called "being competitive" for the money. https://www.electronicproducts.com/mips-processors-to-push-performance-and-price/ From 1992, IDT MIPS R3040 @ 20 Mhz has $15 price, that 68LC040 near-1 IPC class with a budget price. PlayStation 1's LSI Logic R3050 selection is a no-brainer. R3041 is a $15 R3000 variant with an embedded MMU. Motorola continues to price the MMU-equipped 68030 not competitively i.e. follow the Intel 386DX price guide, until AMD surprises them with aggressive Am386-40 prices. 68K exited from the best-selling 32-bit/64-bit game consoles. Motorola deserved to exit (being thrown out) from the gaming desktop computer market.

Anyway, you got the proper reply on the proper thread: https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43330&forum=16&start=580&viewmode=flat&order=0#880647

Enjoy it, bot!

BTW, you can show me how the Playstation (one) used the PMMU on its R3000A CPU. Preparing another big wagon of pop corns...

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @cdimauro it is obvious cd mauro want to switch from ppc cd mauro should provide mui sources cd mauro stop trolling start working on zune

No, I'll not stop bashing your beloved UnderPoweredPC AKA CraPPC which has NOTHING do with the Amiga.

Oops... I forgot that it's dead since around 3 lustrum. But that's ok: I bash it anyway because you love it.

i would wish that the amiga community unite again, just there are so many systems and OS distros out. There are the Orginal Hardware hardliner that maybe do a RAM and Turbocard nothing more ! Then the PPC Upgrader that invest so much and hold on there systems like bread. We got the NG people that use Mister, Vampire, Pistorm, A500 Mini, rPi5, a600gs.

Then the OS like MorphOS, OS4, OS3.2, Aros, Amikit, CaffeineOS etc etc

We set ourself into so many niches and everybody believe in there System as the Future.

For me Personal, i like to try Systems as long they can run my 68k apps. The Spirit of Amiga is for me not bind to a specific CPU, OS more in the people that USE Amiga, make new apps, games or hardware.

My ideas for a Amiga that could reunited all Amiga Users :

1. It must be a cheap to medium priced product, Commodore did Computer for the Masses and break price points. Today Amiga is a niche and to get success you need to have a price for a "normal" person.

2. ARM can give a cheap build, it is less expensive as to start a complete new chip. Like many OS go on ARM at moment, WindowsARM, MACOS Mx, Linux ARM they all see the potential. Like the rPI it is realtive cheap, small, have all ports and need no cooling to work (quiet). Even the M Macs need no big Fan or anything.

3. Modern OS - Here is so not that big Problem. Every Amiga OS can run Email, Browser, Music and Videos. Office Software and Emulation. Okay Social Media like Youtube on the geko is missing. But i see a way like the A600GS and Amikit somehow they can tunel the Encoder/CPU Power from the Host to the Amiga and load Youtube. Updated 3D Drivers are build to take the power of the Host of 3D Render. So there is a way !

4. Entry Level low - Another Problem i had at OS4.1, the installer CD is so old that not even the AmiUpdater work without adding new servers. Many Times at installing new software i get "library to old", library version wrong" so i had to find the right version, that need again something other... a endless circle.
When a newbie got into this, he is finished after 1hour fighting with up-to-date tools and installing. Beginners special (young amiga members) must get a easy way and a helping hand that explain what is going on.

5. Respect the classic ! Amiga is for many for us a heart thing, so we want that amiga colors, that amiga logo, classic must always be respected but with modern drivers, tools, usb, printer, gamepads etc. So i think AmigaOS 3.2 was a great thing that happend. they respect the classic but bring AmigaOS on a modern version. I mean nobody hate really OS3.2 that much or ? so it is the right way.

6. Amiga Demo Scene - We should respect the old crews that keep years of years still coding on the Amiga, making impossible demos for us. This Dudes should be respected and get a Portotype for free. When you can catch this People and bring them to code Demos and accept the device. it is a half win already.

7. Artist - We need more support for artists, Amiga was always a creative platform. Here i see no big Problems too. Oktamed get an update, PPaint get a update. We have to get more of the "big ones" to strike once again ! Retro is IN, so maybe some artists will jump on the Amiga for creating retro art.

Okay i know, i can talk much and do nothing, i also have no money to invest. It is easy to say this and that, i dont even know if things are possible that i describe. I just wish by my heart that we get a new Amiga that will bind us all together again. Something that nobody hate so much to flame it online.

Maybe this dude who buy commodore, he spread already that amiga could be a next project. He did not say it directly becouse he cuts always at the word, but we all know :)

@cdimauro

cd mauro stop trolling start working on zune

@manga303

should be worth of use
open source
unix based
just amiga gui and graphcis on top of unix

@ppcamiga1

Any progress with your evidence on your claims regards Emu68??

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

just amiga gui and graphcis on top of unix

What applications do you need Amiga GUI and graphics for?
What is "Amiga graphics" anyways?

(macOS, certified unix with open source foundation, already has all the applications and everything else you crave for)

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote: @ppcamiga1 Quote: just amiga gui and graphcis on top of unix What is "Amiga graphics" anyways?

Perfectly good question. One to which you are unlikely to get an answer.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@Amiboy

Quote:

Amiboy wrote: @ppcamiga1 Any progress with your evidence on your claims regards Emu68??

He has no evidence. He's not going to ever provide any evidence.
He hates the inflated prices "classic" Amiga HW fetches on Ebay. He sold his one and only Amiga (A1200) to get a PC, and he is happy to blame everyone else for his regrets.
And without an OG Amiga, he can't run PiStorm + emu68.

He bases all of his Amiga "emulation" on ARM comments, on his experience with running UAE on an Raspberry Pi 3.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@cdimauro

Quote:

BTW, you can show me how the Playstation (one) used the PMMU on its R3000A CPU. Preparing another big wagon of pop corns...

Being competitive is a problem for you.

_________________

@manga303

You make a bunch of salient points, and your view is not that far from what needs to be done.

The problem with unification, in the Amiga world or anywhere else, is that people forget it's a zero-sum game: One has to loose something in order to gain another thing. Because let's face it, there is no way to do all hardware and software things in a single platform. The resulting "Frankenstein's Monster" of a platform would be a mess to use, and quite expensive.

As one of your points highlights: It is important to bring creatives back into the fold. Creative developers who are drawn to some new platform for its development flexibility, and creatives who create things with the software the creative developers make. That was Amiga in a nutshell (plus the games).

Unification means leaving things behind. I venture that if I were to issue a prioritisation poll in this August of 2025:
- ARM would garner more votes than x86, which would relegate all the PowerPC work to the proverbial trash heap of history. That will be resisted as much as possible while there is unsold A1222+ stock.
- Porting Amiga OS 3 and/or AROS to ARM would be preferred. Which would mark the end of the road for MorphOS and AmigaOS 4. And as nice as MorphOS has been in these trying years, I will say good riddance. Get busy crapping or get off the shitter (pardon my Australian).

The only other way is that each distinct platform implement an interoperability layer on their respective platforms, so that software can be written once, and then can execute on all platforms without issues, but with nuances in performance and presentation.
Which if we are being realistic, Will. Never. Happen.

The fact is, there is no room for all, if Amiga has a "NG" future.
If Trevor can find a way to make a "Big Box" ARM Amiga, without Hyperion in the mix, then things will escalate rapidly.

Last edited by agami on 26-Aug-2025 at 02:35 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@Amiboy

ppcamiga1 is just a troll and LIAR. Do not expect any proofs ;)

Quote:

What is "Amiga graphics" anyways?

This

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@Amiboy

emu68 is emulator like uae
you waste money on hardware that change amiga into keyboard interface for rpi
it was dumb
buy keyboard for rpi for less than 10 E