@thread

I think the C= logo is something for:

1. 8 Bit retro projects
2. Something cheap, maybe game related

So if the brand is bought for more than 100k than they must try to make money with it, I don't think something cool would come out of it.

There are fans who might think it would be cool if the Ultimate64 or Mega65 could be sold as 'Commodores' but that might not be the result of such a buyout.

I'm not sure how they are discussing it in the C= forums:
https://hackaday.com/2025/06/07/lets-buy-commodore-well-somebody-is/
---

I don't know if makes a lot of sense for the Amiga, I always remembered the time when Fleecy Moss and Bill McEwen tried to sell that name for something alien to Amiga, that's something I never want to see again.

OneTimer1 Quote:

I think the C= logo is something for: 1. 8 Bit retro projects 2. Something cheap, maybe game related So if the brand is bought for more than 100k than they must try to make money with it, I don't think something cool would come out of it.

I can think of 3 ways that there could be excess cash/capital for Peri's resurrection of Commodore plans.

1. raise more than the amount of cash/investments required to buy the remaining Commodore IP
2. My Retro Computer Ltd benefits so much from their reduced Commodore IP royalties and increased margins that they generate enough free cash flow for Peri's grand plans
3. My Retro Computer Ltd benefits from royalties payed to them from Peri's promoted and hyped ideas of mass Commodore branding to support Peri's grand plans

The quickest way to get to Peri's dream to resurrect Commodore would likely be #1 above but he should be transparent about it and have more detailed plans if that is his intention. Unless Retro Computer Ltd's Commodore 64x sales are amazing, I doubt #2 and #3 above are going to quickly generate the free cash flow necessary for Peri's plans and if it would, traditional borrowing would likely be possible. Retro Computer Ltd is asking others to help resurrect Commodore while they are the major financial beneficiary.

OneTimer1 Quote:

There are fans who might think it would be cool if the Ultimate64 or Mega65 could be sold as 'Commodores' but that might not be the result of such a buyout.

All competing devices should not be branded the same with Commodore as it is confusing and does not differentiate products by source, quality and compatibility, which is the purpose of trademarks. If unrestricted naming was allowed, a Commodore 65 (MEGA65 renamed), Commodore 64 (Ultimate 64 renamed) and Commodore 64x are very different and incompatible devices, the Commodore 64x may now be at a marketing disadvantage to the Commodore 64, there could be multiple incompatible devices named Commodore 64 and similar but cheaper bait and switch scams could be a problem. It was the standardization of the C64 which made it the best selling PC model of all time. The Amiga also benefited from standardization and backward compatibility before the post Commodore Amiga division. Maybe this can be fixed with a quality approval as Peri suggests but more qualification is likely needed at it should not be arbitrary decision making but rules based and the system known before funding for transparency. Instead of transparency, Peri may as well be saying trust us and give us money.

OneTimer1 Quote:

I'm not sure how they are discussing it in the C= forums: https://hackaday.com/2025/06/07/lets-buy-commodore-well-somebody-is/ --- I don't know if makes a lot of sense for the Amiga, I always remembered the time when Fleecy Moss and Bill McEwen tried to sell that name for something alien to Amiga, that's something I never want to see again.

This is the reason why uniting the Amiga is so difficult. Different people have different thresh holds for the branding.

1. super purist - only original products should be branded Commodore/Amiga
2. purist - only original products and exact recreations should be branded Commodore/Amiga
3. traditionalist - recreations and bug fixes based on the original can be branded Commodore/Amiga
4. majority - faithful recreations with high compatibility can be branded Commodore/Amiga
5. pragmatist - only keep what is useful but something original remains from Commodore/Amiga
6. minority - not bothered by brand owner renaming anything and everything Commodore/Amiga

Amiga Inc's AmigaNOwhere aimed for #6 above and lost #1-#5 which is the vast majority of the existing Amiga market. PPC Amigas and AROS x86-64 would be #5 above and they lost most fans from #1-#4 which is likely 90-99% of the Amiga market due to loss of compatibility. It is very advantageous to move up another notch and pick up the majority of Amiga fans at #4 like THEA500 Mini, WinUAE, MiSTer, Vamp/AC hardware. The latter FPGA devices likely pick up some of the #3 traditionalist fans also. The #1-#3 may be lost with modernization but many would buy and try faithful hardware if affordable enough even though they would keep their original hardware and may use it more.

There is a similar market tolerance for Commodore 8-bit devices too. Retro Computer Ltd's Commodore 64x would be #5 above with them likely losing most of the Commodore 64 market. Perhaps tolerance is higher because the C64 can not be modernized as well as the Amiga but I expect the MEGA65 at #4 and picking up some of #3 is much more appealing. The more faithful hardware does not depend on Commodore/Amiga branding but benefits from it to improve economies of scale. Economies of scale are required for the most faithful modernized Amiga hardware which could likely compete with modern small footprint low end hardware. Retro Computer Ltd's idea of a modern Amiga may be a "Commodore Amiga 1200x" with the same x86-64 Linux reskinning treatment as their "Commodore 64x". They would have a cost advantage without Commodore royalties over more faithful Commodore/Amiga hardware and there is a potential major conflict of interest. They do not have the Amiga brand but they could obtain it with a cross licensing deal with Amiga Corporation. The new Atari VCS is a good example of the Atari IP holder producing cheap unfaithful hardware based mostly on branding and a cheap facade. I would not like to see similar happen to the Commodore/Amiga brand even though it partially did with the AmigaNOne. If there is any retro crowd funding, it should be used to develop and produce faithful modernized hardware.

Have known perifractic (on YouTube) for years, cool videos, nice music.

I like retro, I believe nostalgia does have a big place in many people's hearts=wallets and I wouldn't give a damn if Micro$oft, Apple, Intel, Google, Meta, Twitter, OpenAI, Nintendo, Activision, etc all died tomorrow. At the same time, I love the Amiga 1000x times more than Commodore and C64 and I would like something more than just emulation, mugs, and shirts. I'd like a new computer/platform that is capable of both "serious" and "fun" computing and a platform/brand/community where creative minds and old-schoolers (re)unite. I am sick of everyone just doing boring 3D staff targetting Gen-Zers. If this move helps Amiga, indie game development, and demo scene a bit I would be happy.

Last edited by toRus on 10-Jun-2025 at 09:29 PM.
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@toRus

The platform Amiga was revived in different branches with different names, some like AmigaOne or AmigaDE where very close to the name of the original.

But it didn't work, we hoped developers would come back and port their games and applications to AOS4, MOS or AROS but that didn't happen. Those who successfully left the Amiga market saw no reason to come back and Users went to other gaming or computer systems.

A revive without software or users can't lead to an Amiga we had in the 80ies and just for playing old games you don't need new hardware, UAE will be enough.

---

And Commodore?

There where plenty of products named Commodore, the C64 had more users than the Amiga, and no one believes in a restart as a serious computer platform, because of all the restrictions of the 8-Bit machine.

@OneTimer1

I am not talking about developers and software companies that produce ultra-big yet ultra-boring titles that look like bad-CGI movies. A robust brand that can give home to all those independent hw/sw developers with their cool ideas/projects and a flexible developers community that can produce itch.io-like game titles is still good enough to engage many and maybe a good start. Regarding productivity software, a capable web browser might be enough, we don't necessarily ask for Adobe Photoshop and DaVinci Resolve. Base it on open source (RISC-V ?), port Java/JDK/EclipseJDT rather than QT for easy reusing existing stuff difficult to reinvent natively, do something/anything.

C64 was huge in USA in the 80s - in Europe 8-bit home computing was NOT just C64 and Amiga users were NOT just old C64 users upgrading. In any case, for nostalgia or not, there are still enough potential customers that spending considerable money and time on retro, buying handheld SBCs, hacking with RPIs, creating demo and media content, wishing for something different/better/older, waiting for some unified effort from someone.

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@matthey

Added a bit of humor to my AtariAge thread. If you missed this history when it occurred:

How C= travelled from Ben Van Wijhe to Eugene Van OS

#6

Added:
note full name at bottom which has been entered into the Commodore International wiki

Last edited by number6 on 10-Jun-2025 at 10:40 PM.

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@thread

another 3 pages of comments this time from Lemon64

#6

Added:
another couple of pages from EAB

Last edited by number6 on 11-Jun-2025 at 12:49 AM.

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@number6

Thanks

@thread

Carl Svensson article courtesy Senex of Amiganews.de

#6

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#6 Quote:

Carl Svensson article courtesy Senex of Amiganews.de

Carl's thinking is similar to my thinking.

https://www.datagubbe.se/cbrand/ Quote:

Crowdfunding is referenced in the video: it would be ironic indeed for retro enthusiasts to first finance the brand purchase and then, through licensing fees, keep paying for it indefinitely.

Indeed.

@matthey & @#6



Both of them are saying that even if the buyer is a honorably guy he can't give away the license to C= like products for free, because even defending the license would need money.

That's why Aros can't defend the names like Aros or Zune, hiring attorney to do this right would cost money. So if you don't have to sell a commercial product, buying a license is useless.

@thread

A video review of the topic. Pretty much a nostalgia vs business approach:

You Want to Buy Commodore???? | Computer Commentary

#6

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OneTimer1 Quote:

Both of them are saying that even if the buyer is a honorably guy he can't give away the license to C= like products for free, because even defending the license would need money. That's why Aros can't defend the names like Aros or Zune, hiring attorney to do this right would cost money. So if you don't have to sell a commercial product, buying a license is useless.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the buyer would be My Retro Computer Ltd with Peri as the new CEO for raising the crowd funding and perhaps investing himself (maybe there would be two businesses but they would have close ties). My Retro Computer Ltd produces the Commodore C64x with other products planned. The crowd funding would help them buy Commodore Corporation B.V. or their Commodore IP. My Retro Computer Ltd should be able to make enough from their products to defend their IP. They should not need to charge a 6.4% royalty to the crowd that just funded the Commodore IP purchase. The 6.4% royalty is likely to be passed on to the crowd like a tax when the crowd just funded the purchase, except for My Retro Computer Ltd's products which now likely have a 6.4% cost advantage over other Commodore branded products. Peri makes it sound like the 6.4% royalties will be used to resurrect the Commodore brand but it likely goes to My Retro Computer Ltd with little transparency beyond promises. The crowd pays for the Commodore IP purchase while My Retro Computer Ltd's Commodore IP royalties drop from 20% to 0% and they collect 6.4% royalties from other Commodore branded products. From my understanding of the limited information, it is borderline a scam.

I looked at the My Retro Computer Ltd related websites and watched Peri's promotional video on the Commodore 64x and Commodore OS.

https://www.commodoreos.net
https://myretrocomputer.com

The commodoreos.net website has Peri's "Let's Buy Commodore" video on the home page. After entering the site, there is a video titled "A New PC from Commodore: The C64x is finally here" which is a pure propaganda video for "My Retro Computer Ltd", the Commodore 64x and the Commodore OS.

A new PC from Commodore: The C64x is Finally Here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG1TdfezJzo
Retro Recipes
1M views 8 months ago
3,141 Comments

The myretrocomputer.com website hints at other retro cased PC hardware in the future.

https://myretrocomputer.com/ Quote:

Do you remember your first home computer? Was it a Commodore 64, Vic 20 or an Amiga? Wouldn’t it be fantastic to have a modern day PC in a retro computer shell? Here at My Retro Computer we aim to do just that. We believe the PC market is boring and stagnated, it needs a new fresh approach – retro is the new modern. Starting with the Commodore 64 and expanding onto the Commodore Vic20, Commodore 16, C64 Chameleon and A500 ranges.

Notice the future "A500" instead of Amiga 500 because of the Amiga trademark. I believe their plans are retro cases with PC hardware and Commodore OS themed Linux as the future for all Commodore fans, including the Amiga. Emulation for all with a retro case facade was where Commodore was headed according to Peri from the video. The video also promotes the official Commodore logo and Commodore seal of quality for credibility when the hardware has nothing to do with any Commodore hardware. This is similar to the new Atari VCS with a VCS/2600 case facade for PC hardware and emulation on Linux for retro compatibility except that Atari is not asking for crowd funding. Atari probably wishes they had Peri promoting their products though judging by his video's views which are more impressive than the Atari VCS sales. Official branding was important for the "AmigaOne" and "AmigaOS 4" which were obtained through very shady deals. The new Atari VCS and AmigaOne have largely been failures do to far from faithful hardware but they do not have Peri promoting them.

It is the easy non faithful and non compatible commodity hardware that needs branding for credibility. The brand and retro case create the illusion and facade of nostalgia. The C64 tech can only be modernized so far but I feel like the MEGA65 better deserves the Commodore brand and perhaps crowd funding to make it more affordable. The 68k Amiga definitely deserves better and more faithful hardware as it could be modernized into RPi like hardware that is likely competitive again, at least for very low end small footprint hardware. The Commodore 64x low end is "4GB" for "$250-$350" and the high end is "8GB" for "$575-$1,100" from the video. It is more expensive than the Atari VCS but more expandable despite the small case and max 65W TDP recommendation. I feel like the majority of Amiga fans would not accept this kind of treatment for the 68k Amiga. We love the easy to program 68k, elegant Amiga chipset and minimalist Amiga system that should be very cheap to produce. Bait and switch using branding is easier and cheaper than development though.

Last edited by matthey on 13-Jun-2025 at 12:26 PM.

@matthey: even the Commodore 64 deserves much better.

The C65 was created by engineers that had no idea of the software which was already running on the C64, and created a quite incompatible product. In fact, I want to see the existing turbo tapes/disks running on it: plenty of the software was releases using them, which can't run on the C65!

If the MEGA65 works like the C65, then the situation will be the same.

A new, modernized C64 should be built with 100% compatibility at its foundations. On top of this a lot of things can be added. So, similar to the C128, but without the alien Z80 and the super-crappy VDC.

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: A new, modernized C64 should be built with 100% compatibility ...

I wouldn't spend money on a 100% compatible C64, I have plenty of them lying around. I can even get compatible C64 replacement boards, with or without improvements for an acceptable price.

But I might spend some Euros on a small C64 compatible mobile device, with TFT, micro keyboard and some Euros more if it has USB 2.0 for Joystick, Keyboard and USB-Stick.

You might realize how different expectations can be

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: I want to see the existing turbo tapes/disks running on it: plenty of the software was releases using them, which can't run on the C65!

If you want to have a compatible tape device, you must use an 6502 running exactly the same clock frequency like the C64, timing is critical and was done using the CPU only, you will even run into troubles reading BASIC programs from a PET on a C64 or a VIC20

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 13-Jun-2025 at 11:23 AM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 13-Jun-2025 at 10:11 AM.

cdimauro Quote:

@matthey: even the Commodore 64 deserves much better. The C65 was created by engineers that had no idea of the software which was already running on the C64, and created a quite incompatible product. In fact, I want to see the existing turbo tapes/disks running on it: plenty of the software was releases using them, which can't run on the C65! If the MEGA65 works like the C65, then the situation will be the same.

The MEGA65 does work like the Commodore C65 when using the C65 core. The C65 has a C64 compatibility mode but it is less compatible than the C128 C64 compatibility mode. Primitive hardware that has minimal abstraction and relies on exact timing does not allow much upgrading with full compatibility. The MEGA65 uses a FPGA which can use a C64 core though.

C64 for MEGA65 Version 5 Release Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ke0alwjds
Sy Twothousandandtwo
1.4K views 1 year ago
16 Comments
Quote:

Experience the Commodore 64 with great accuracy and sublime compatibility on your MEGA65! This core is based on the MiSTer Commodore 64 core which itself is based on the work of many others. MJoergen and sy2002 ported the core to the MEGA65 in 2022 and 2023. With our Release 5, we are striving for a retro C64 PAL experience: The core turns your MEGA65 into a Commodore 64 with a C1541 drive (you can mount *.d64) images. It supports the following hardware ports of the MEGA65: Joystick port for joysticks, mice and paddles Expansion port for C64 cartridges: Games, Freezers, Fast loader cartridges, REUs, Multi-Function Flash Cartridges, etc. IEC port so that you can attach real 1541 & 1581 drives as well as printers, plotters or modern devices such as the SD2IEC and the Ultimate-II+ Additionally, the C64 for MEGA65 core can simulate a 1750 REU with 512KB of RAM, it can simulate cartridges (by loading *.crt files) and it offers a Dual SID / Stereo SID experience. The C64 runs the original Commodore KERNAL and the C1541 runs the original Commodore DOS, which leads to authentic loading speeds. You will be surprised, how slowly the C64/C1541 were loading... You can optionally use JiffyDOS or use fast loader cartridges to speed up loading. And you will be amazed by the 99.9% compatibility that this core has when it comes to games, demos and other demanding C64 software. Some demos are even recognizing this core as genuine C64 hardware. And even things like using a fast loader cartridge while connecting a genuine 1541 via IEC are working flawlessly. DOWNLOAD THIS CORE FOR YOUR MEGA65 HERE: https://tinyurl.com/4cdfb4za THE CORE IS 100% OPEN SOURCE - VISIT US HERE: https://github.com/MJoergen/C64MEGA65

Unlike closed hardware like the Vamp/Apollo Core hardware, MiSTer FPGA cores can be flashed into the MEGA65. The CPU clock speed is adjustable between "1, 2, 3.5 and 40.5MHz" and the FPGA "Allows bigger third-party cores".

https://mega65.org/

A MiSTer is capable of much of the same but the I/O and ports are customized for the C65 which also works well enough for the C64. The Amiga 1200 MiSTer+MiSTress combo is somewhat similar where the MiSTress board contains Amiga specific I/O. The MEGA65 is about as far as faithful C64/C65 hardware can go and a FPGA allows to retain better compatibility than the C65 would have. The price is high and the market very niche as the video views and comments show. The 68k Amiga can advance much further with a 68k SoC ASIC while FPGA technology for chipsets allows to expand the market beyond the Amiga to a much larger retro 68k market.

cdimauro Quote:

A new, modernized C64 should be built with 100% compatibility at its foundations. On top of this a lot of things can be added. So, similar to the C128, but without the alien Z80 and the super-crappy VDC.

Replacing the 6510 with the Z80 was an upgrade though. The Z80 was handicapped in performance with only a 4-bit ALU but the ISA is nicer and the code density much better. The C128 was one of the few computers to retain a 6502 family CPU and it did not survive into the Amiga although was deeply embedded into the keyboard and some peripherals. The Z80 survived into some 68k hardware like the Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 16 and Sega Genesis for compatibility and as an I/O processor. The 68000 itself survived for compatibility and I/O into the Atari Jaguar and Sega Saturn. The 68k was used in the Amiga CD32, Atari Jaguar, Neo Geo, Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and Sega Saturn consoles while the Commodore Amiga, Sharp X68000 and Atari ST were gaming computers. The 6502 is 50 years old but the 68000 is only 4 years younger at 46 years old.

https://sonicstate.com/news/2024/09/19/the-68000-cpu-turns-45/ Quote:

I love this architecture - there are 7 such chips in my (sound) studio, so here's to the next 45 years, 68k!

The 6502 changed the world by being a very affordable MPU while the 68k changed the world by being a very good MPU. Then Motorola through out their beautiful 68k baby for an adopted ugly PPC baby and never looked back. The 68k should be brought back because not only was it good 46 years ago but it is still good today.

@thread

Interesting (to me) question and response from Peri in the video comment section:

Question:
Quote:

When is the C64 phone coming out?

Answer:
Quote:

@RetroRecipes (Peri) 38 minutes ago 2026

The old CommodoreSmart?

Google AI:
Quote:

Commodore Business Machines Ltd., is based in London and is run by Italian entrepreneurs. They've released a retro-themed Android smartphone called the Commodore PET

#6

Added:
U.K. trademark

Last edited by number6 on 13-Jun-2025 at 11:15 PM.

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@number6

I was searching for this video / comment thread about phones on YT found a lot of others, could you please post the link (it might be hidden/folded away..

Quote:

Commodore Business Machines Ltd., is based in London and is run by Italian entrepreneurs

Haven't seen the exact claim to their license, but when it includes 'mobile communication devices' it could block the usage ob mobile (battery driven) gaming devices, that would be a pity.


@thread

I realized, that perifractic isn't looking for crowdfunding (yet?) so he might be able to pay it in a different way.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 14-Jun-2025 at 07:37 AM.

@OneTimer1

Peri's comments are in the original video, which continues to acquire more comments.
Can We Save The COMMODORE Brand? My Biggest Project Yet

If you read all the responses you might be surprised at the "connections" that may come out of this. For example, a former worker at Commodore Gaming posted in the comments.

I discussed some of the old history again here:
Can We Save COMMODORE?

Note: embedded links in the above might take you back to some AW threads.

I am not claiming that CBM (who sold phones) is the company he refers to, because he did not mention the name of the company in his comment. But since he is obviously talking to the other holders of Commodore IP, it would make sense. They claimed to be Commodore, like everyone else.

That same company (CBM) was involved with Eugene, Mike, and many others during the MyRetroComputer kickstarter campaign, interrupted by the claim that MyRetroComputer did not have the rights

We have numerous threads on AW discussing every aspect of every one of these companies. If you want a lot more to read, just search the site for the company names and you should get more than you want.

#6.

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: We have numerous threads on AW discussing every aspect of every one of these companies. .

I know, in the end it is only important what he wants to do and what he is allowed to do.

I'm not sure if I would ever buy a C= smartphone, as long as it is only a cheap Chinese Android phone with a name sticker on it and according to the link you posted, this possibility might not work everywhere.

ps.:

The brand might be free for the UK phone market:

Quote:

--------------------------------------- Cancellation details Cancellation number CA000507917 Effective date of cancellation 11 January 2024 ---------------------------------------

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00915636137

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 14-Jun-2025 at 04:36 PM.