@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Hammer pistorm is worth nothing shit that changes amiga into kb interface for rpi it is dumb to waste money on this shit when one may buy kb and mouse for rpi below 10 Euro stop trollin and start working on something worth of use on arm

I'll ask again, but I'm going to already assume you'll ignore this,but please provide your evidence for your assertion of your claim here.

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@bhabbott

Quote:

bhabbott wrote: Hyperion produced AmigaOS 3.1.4, 3.2, 3.21, 3.22 and 3.23 (released on 2 Apr 2025). If that's the ultimate con...

They have the right to sell an OS with the brand name AmigaOS, this right is AFAIK exclusive, so no other company has the right to use this brand-name, this will always be a problem when someone tries to buy the brand.

As far as I know Hyperion still has some rights on the brand name 'Amiga' it was all organized in such a way, that no other company could ever use that name for a computer without Hyperion's consent.

If not AmigaKit would have sold their A600GS and A1200NG under an other name.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: pistorm is worth nothing shit that changes amiga into ...

pistorm is some kind of accelerator card for the Amiga with some option for being more than just that.

pistorm or any other Amiga hardware is not mentioned by Perifractic, it's not related to the "Let's Buy Commodore" project in any way

So if you want to express your feelings about it, you should switch to a more fitting thread or create one one your own.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 09-Aug-2025 at 08:16 PM.

@matthey

Quote:

If the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement is legal, for example not coerced under financial duress, and the 68k Hyperion AmigaOS can be considered AmigaOS 4 or a new architecture is used which can not be called "Amiga" and would likely require renegotiating AmigaOS 4 developer contracts and Trevor/A-Eon owned contracts for other architectures other than PPC to be called "AmigaOne", then Hyperion may have a license to develop the AmigaOS. Ben claims Hyperion has the right to use "Amiga" as it is implied by "Hyperion’s exclusive license to use the marks AmigaOS, Amiga OS, AmigaOne, and Amiga One", that all versions of AmigaOS are practically the same "subsumed within the Software" so he can use any version, that AmigaOS/Kickstart 1.3 is required to use AmigaOS 3.1 and that Hyperion has a license to further develop the 68k AmigaOS because it is AmigaOS 4.

Right, Im going to buy Haage & Partner and release AmigaOS 3.9.9 Future Edition.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@OneTimer1

back to topic...

I still do not understand how Perifractic want to revive Commodore. He bought a brand that he can relicense again. And memories. But Commodore was not a brand, it was production facilities, hardware patents, OS sources, roms and kickstarts. Nothing of that exists. Nice that he has a list of former commodore developers officially supporting him, but that not recreates commodore.

@OneTimer1

As I understand it, "Amiga" was Amiga Inc. so it now belongs to Cloanto

OneTimer1 Quote:

They have the right to sell an OS with the brand name AmigaOS, this right is AFAIK exclusive, so no other company has the right to use this brand-name, this will always be a problem when someone tries to buy the brand.

The 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement says exclusive but preexisting licenses take precedence and Hyperion is granted an exclusive license for some things already licensed, so in fact, are not exclusive to Hyperion. Exclusive can only mean no new licenses for exclusively licensed IP are possible. Cloanto had a preexisting license to sell the AmigaOS which did not change. I have not seen that license so I do not know the extent of the licensing rights. Exhibit 1 of the settlement agreement states an "indefinite term" of "Worldwide" "rights sufficient to support Amiga Forever, including emulation modules" but this is just a brief summary that lacks details and may not be accurate.

OneTimer1 Quote:

As far as I know Hyperion still has some rights on the brand name 'Amiga' it was all organized in such a way, that no other company could ever use that name for a computer without Hyperion's consent.

Amiga Inc retained the rights to the "Amiga" brand with the destination for ownership being Amiga Corporation after the Amiga brand was purchased. According to the 2009 settlement agreement, Hyperion is granted rights to the "AmigaOS" and the "Amiga Parties" "may not commercialize anywhere in the world" the AmigaOS. The "Amiga Parties" are defined as "Amiga, Itec, or Amino" and should not apply to Amiga Corporation or Cloanto which acquired the Amiga IP assets instead of the whole business as a de facto merger. It could be argued that the intention was for any Amiga successor but that is not how the contract is written with the capitalized "Amiga Parties" referring to the settlement agreement definition.

Ben argues that the license for "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "Amiga One" and "AmigaOne" grants Hyperion the right to use "Amiga" alone but this is absurd rights creep and history revisionism. This may be because Hyperion has already violated the 2009 settlement agreement by "challenging ownership" of Amiga IP prohibited for Hyperion. It may be a desperate attempt to justify Amiga IP violations that may result in the nullification of the 2009 settlement agreement.

OneTimer1 Quote:

If not AmigaKit would have sold their A600GS and A1200NG under an other name.

By Ben's absurd logic, Hyperion could sublicense "Amiga" to AmigaKit or the new Commodore. In reality, Amiga Corporation likely could license "Amiga" to RGL or the new Commodore. RGL performed due diligence which is having law research done to determine who has the Amiga IP rights and we know who they deal with. Some of Ben's claims are as absurd as con men Italians claiming they own the Commodore IP. It is a mistake to pay con men. Jens of iComp likely lost the payment to Hyperion for pre-AmigaOS 3.1 Amiga IP and iComp is liable for the sale of products without a valid Amiga IP license. His mistake could cost iComp many thousands of euros which is a lot in the small Amiga market. It is unfortunate as Hyperion can not license pre-AmigaOS 3.1 and Cloanto may not have been able to license the AmigaOS for real 68k hardware. It should be possible now since Amiga Inc sold their remaining Amiga IP assets but it may not have been if the whole Amiga Inc business was purchased in a de facto merger. Amiga Corporation can use the "Amiga" brand which is quite powerful but they are limited with what they can do with the AmigaOS because of the 2009 settlement agreement. Hyperion is likewise handicapped with their limited Amiga IP without expanding their rights with liberal creeping interpretations of the 2009 settlement agreement. The problem is that Ben, Trevor and Matthew seem to be corrupt con men trying to steal the Amiga IP rather than working together to improve the Amiga. They would rather risk losing everything in court and the jury may recognize that they are con men which is becoming more and more obvious. Hyperion is a good example of what can happen with dishonest con men business partners. It is too bad the injunction failed and we have to wait years for justice in court.

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: As I understand it, "Amiga" was Amiga Inc. so it now belongs to Cloanto

Yes, Amiga was transferred to Amiga Corp. that is owned by "Mike Battilana", Cloanto was renamed and/or is identical to Amiga now.

The Trademarks AmigaOne and AmigaOS are still under dispute, lets summarize it with one sentence:

Hyperion believes the trademarks "AmigaOne and AmigaOS" belongs to them and they don't want them to let go to "Amiga Corp / Cloanto / Mike Battilana".

---

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: I still do not understand how Perifractic want to revive Commodore. ... Commodore was not a brand, it was production facilities, hardware patents, OS sources, roms and kickstarts. Nothing of that exists ...

Perifractic want to revive Commodore brand for Commodore (especially Commodore C64) related products, what this will be could be disputed.

As potential customers I could buy Commodore branded computers again, some are compatible with the C64.

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: By Ben's absurd logic, Hyperion could sublicense "Amiga" to AmigaKit or the new Commodore. In reality,...

Yes, there was a time when Hyperion (or was it AEon) tried to sublicense the Amiga brand name for accessories.

This was the last message that resurfaced about the AmigaOne trademark dispute:
http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2024-08-00102-EN.html

@Amiboy

evidence for what?
stop trollin and start working on something worth of use on arm

@matthey

what yout wrote is pure bs
nobody stop herr batalia from use 3.1 on real 68k hardware
herr batalia may use 3.1 under 2009 agreement os 3.1 as long as gui is not exposed to end user

@OneTimer1

pistorm is worth nothing shit that changes amiga into kb interface for rpi
it is dumb to waste money on this shit when one may buy kb and mouse for rpi below 10 Euro

@OlafS25

back to the topic

c64 ultimate is nice real hardware not emulator

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

pistorm is worth nothing shit that changes amiga into kb interface for rpi

Prove it or else you are just a liar and troll.

@ppcamiga1

Ultimate is a reimplementation of C64 in FPGA like Apollo hardware with the old C64 case. A nice retro system that certainly will find some buyers. But it is not "reviving" Commodore how I see it. At its time Commodore was a leading company selling different unique computer systems. It is just a retro system, even with the FPGA.

@OneTimer1

the concept of selling C64 related products will soon come to a end. He can produce and sell C64 reimplementation, what is already announced, perhaps a gaming console, but then air will become thin. Perhaps T-Shirts with commodore on it and similar but then it ends. For me that has not much to do with "reviving" it, it is more making some money with the retro trend. Reviving would be for me to create really new products at the height of the development.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Aug-2025 at 12:27 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 10-Aug-2025 at 12:26 PM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: @Amiboy evidence for what? stop trollin and start working on something worth of use on arm

Evidence for the claims you make about piStorm/Emu68. I think you know that, so I take your inability to back up your claims to show that you are definitely just a troll with 0% understand on what you are talking about so anything you say can be easily ignored.

Thanks for proving me right via your own ignorance

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

OlafS25 wrote:
Quote:

A nice retro system that certainly will find some buyers.

https://slapsoft.com/c64_sales.html

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

@RobertB

This is cool. Thanks for sharing the link!

_________________
Sam

OneTimer1 Quote:

Yes, there was a time when Hyperion (or was it AEon) tried to sublicense the Amiga brand name for accessories. This was the last message that resurfaced about the AmigaOne trademark dispute: http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2024-08-00102-EN.html

Grant #2 the Non-Aggression clause of the 2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF settlement agreement forbids Hyperion from "challenging" "ownership of any Amiga Mark".

2009 Amiga Inc v Hyperion VOF
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.html Quote:

Hyperion agrees and covenants that it will not institute any action, claim or proceeding anywhere in the world ... (B) challenging (i) an Existing License Agreement set forth on Exhibit 1, (ii) ownership of the Licensed Marks by any Amiga party or any successor, or (iii) the use and/or ownership of any Amiga Mark (other than an Exclusive Licensed Mark) by any Amiga Party or any licensee or successor to any Amiga Party (A "Hyperion Prohibited Action"), unless the challenged activity constitutes a material breach of this Agreement, including but not limited to any material infringement by the Amiga Parties, by a successor to any Amiga Party, by a Purchaser or by a licensee of the licenses granted to Hyperion pursuant to this Agreement.

Since Hyperion does not own its licensed Amiga IP, it can not trademark any Amiga IP owned by the Amiga Parties or their successors (this should include "Amiga Forever" as an extension of the "Amiga" trademark which was licensed to Cloanto).

file:///C:/Users/6300/Downloads/2021-03-18_hyperion-amiga-itec-cloanto-ca_filing-100_amiga-motion-partial-summary-judgment.pdf Quote:

Specifically, Plaintiffs ask this Court to find that Defendant Hyperion Entertainment CVBA (“Hyperion�) breached the Settlement Agreement entered into by Hyperion and the Amiga Parties in 2009 (hereinafter, the “Settlement Agreement�) by: (1) filing applications and obtaining registrations for the following trademarks: a. U.S. App. No. 87329431 for AMIGAOS; b. U.S. App. No. 87329448 for AMIGAONE; c. U.S. App. No. 87329469 for the “Boing Ball� design mark (“Boing Ball Mark�); d. Benelux Reg. No. 1019369 for AMIGAONE; e. Benelux Reg. No. 1019518 for AMIGA; f. Benelux Reg. No. 1354122 for the Boing Ball Mark; g. Benelux Reg. No. 1014998 for KICKSTART; h. Benelux Reg. No. 1010723 for AMIGAOS; i. Benelux Reg. No. 1009642 for AMIGA FOREVER; j. Benelux Reg. No. 1008486 for WORKBENCH; k. France App. No. D. 18 4475019 for KICKSTART; l. Germany Reg. No. 302017113262 for AMIGA; m. Italy App. No. 2018000027648 for KICKSTART; n. Spain App. No. M3718535(7) for KICKSTART; o. Poland Reg. No. 321752 for KICKSTART; p. EUTM Reg. No. 16745093 for AMIGA FOREVER; q. EUTM Reg. No. 16733024 for AMIGAOS; and r. EUTM Reg. No. 16732208 for WORKBENCH; (2) using the AMIGAOS word mark and Boing Ball Mark to commercialize, distribute and sell subsequently modified versions of the AmigaOS 3.1 Agreement, including but not limited to “AmigaOS 3.1.4�; (3) using KICKSTART and WORKBENCH to license, market, and sell versions of the Amiga operating system prior to AmigaOS 3.1; and (4) using AMIGAOS, POWERED BY AMIGAOS, and the Boing Ball Mark on notepads, stickers, posters, t-shirts, plush balls, inflatable beach balls, and other merchandise.

Hyperion can not really dispute these trademark registrations of Amiga IP "challenging ownership" in violation of the 2009 settlement agreement so their only hope is to claim that the Amiga Parties violated it first and/or the insolvency clause allowed them to take ownership of the Amiga IP licensed to them but it is obvious who the bad faith actor in this agreement is and Ben presented no evidence than any Amiga Party business was ever insolvent/bankrupt. There are just lots of desperate allegations from Ben.

ppcamiga1 Quote:

what yout wrote is pure bs nobody stop herr batalia from use 3.1 on real 68k hardware herr batalia may use 3.1 under 2009 agreement os 3.1 as long as gui is not exposed to end user

Cloanto had a license to sell AmigaOS 3.1 for emulation which was grandfathered in ahead of the 2009 settlement agreement so Cloanto could have provided AmigaOS 3.1 for THEA500 Mini which uses emulation. However, for "real 68k hardware", Amiga Corporation may be an Amiga Party successor with the limitations of the 2009 settlement agreement. However, the limitation for commercialization is for the "Amiga Parties" (Amiga, Itec, or Amino) specifically which they are not and the exception to the limitation for AmigaOS 3.1 distribution which is unmodified and does not expose the "User Interface" is for "Amiga" (Inc) specifically. The only applicable parts of the settlement agreement limitations on Amiga Corporation are where Amiga Party "successor" is specified. I believe Amiga Corporation could license the AmigaOS for real or FPGA 68k hardware but the grey area is the "AmigaOS" trademark exclusively licensed to Hyperion which is visible much like Workbench, AmigaDOS and Kickstart are sometimes for AmigaOS 4 including the Hyperion 68k AmigaOS. AmigaKit uses AmiBench instead of Workbench to avoid this grey area even as they use AmigaKit, Amiga Technologies, amigastore.com, amigashop.com, A1200, etc. AmigaKit is another source of highly questionable Amiga IP licenses like Hyperion.

https://www.amigakit.com/licencing.php?aksid=abj968ob376evv71i4md5mmdpk Quote:

Licencing our brands For over two decades AmigaKit Ltd has been a proud member of a vibrant and innovative community. This has yielded a breadth of new hardware and software products from many talented and knowledgable individuals. AmigaKit has also contributed with it's own product range employing developers within our community. AmigaKit has a range of trademarks that offer protection for the product range that we have been supplying to the community for over twenty years. These marks offer important safeguards from external commercial entities that may exploit our hard work or attempt to limit/block our product range.

Amiga Corporation and the new Commodore bought and own Commodore/Amiga IP. What Commodore/Amiga IP did Hyperion or AmigaKit buy, pay licenses for and/or pay royalties for?

Last edited by matthey on 10-Aug-2025 at 07:12 PM.

@matthey

AmigaKit claimed A1200 as a trademark even though it's one letter and a string of numbers and it seems they also start cease and desist tactics if you use the word 'Amiga' when attached to a store or repair business (Amigastore.eu were lucky as were Amiga on the Lake or is it just UK businesses that are an issue for them?). They also bought Amiga.org so lay claim to the doube tick 'checkmark' logo of which Amiga.org gained permission to use on its website! Therefore, it gets splattered on all their goods and packaging!

Hyperion believe that the 2009 settlement gives them free reign to develop all AmigaOS sources to their hearts content as well as threaten anyone that releases hardware bundled with any AmigaOS!

Pretty toxic behaviour all around but I guess if parent companies don't defend their IP/trademarks etc then this is what happens even in cottage industries sized markets!

Last edited by BigD on 10-Aug-2025 at 09:58 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Aug-2025 at 09:56 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Aug-2025 at 09:54 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 10-Aug-2025 at 09:52 PM.

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