Quote:

simplex wrote: Surely someone with your name recognition, especially after promotion from RJ Mical to Mega RJ Mical, a wholly deserved promotion might I add (judging at least from the biceps & triceps in your avatar), would have the command of the masses that would succeed at fundraising sufficient to buy the Commodore Project? Surely you are negotiating with Trevor, Michele, and whoever has replaced Ben to for your NIL rights?

Friend Simplex,
INDEED mrjm is in possess of the financial means to purchase that flayed brand we all love and pine YES PINE for.

However

had I to choose between enjoying the spoils of a lifetime of adventure, hardship, rises and falls - and having to deal with the ravenous masses (not classes) foaming at their mouth for new old merchandise, you can imagine what direction would I take.

If this old, cunning man of business had to truly snatch the big C out of the hands of that bearded narcissist, well I would rather wait them to go bankrupt, which I would estimate is about 18 months away, and then get it at bargain price.

In that timeframe Pleasence would probably also finally be diagnosed with dementia and interned into a nursing home, saving me from the burden of dealing with him too.




and, of course


ZORRAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



/mega

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kolla Quote:

Nothing modern about the Amiga either, really. The IMO biggest officially "untapped" market for both C64 and Amiga is that of music production, both professional and hobbyist markets. However, with the numerous third party SID based modules that exists, it could very well be too late.

Every modern highly integrated digital chip would be outdated if it used 40 year old silicon. Some 68k Amiga advantages are not dependent on silicon like small code and ease of use where the 68k Amiga remains competitive. While these advantages still exist, they can not leveraged with ancient silicon.

Bob Yannes went on to develop better synthesizer chips than the SID chip with Epsoniq. They were used in keyboards, computers including the Apple IIGS and PC sound cards, eventually being acquired by Creative Labs. The SID chip is pioneering is some ways and has a nice sound but is not as professional as later Epsoniq chips.

The Amiga's Paula would need enhancements to be competitive again and even then would be old school, which has some appeal. Commodore had upgraded it for AAA which was likely done but the existing Paula was good enough that it was not a priority to port it back for AA/AGA and AA+ which was due to get it never arrived. SAGA upgraded it too so enhancement is no problem.

@matthey

Sometimes musicians are specifically searching for that "old" original sound, that's why the SID still sells, that's why other old analogue synths are still cloned.

So what with the amiga do you consider "modern"?

Last edited by kolla on 23-Jun-2026 at 08:46 AM.

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kolla Quote:

Sometimes musicians are specifically searching for that "old" original sound, that's why the SID still sells, that's why other old analogue synths are still cloned.

Right. The 8-bit sound of the SID and NES have retro appeal. Unfortunately, they are not in easy to use forms. The C64 is primitive and limiting but at least there are newer versions of the C64 with more modern I/O and some allow to use original SID chips since the sound is challenging to replicate with digital approximations. The NES is even more bottled up with the same primitive 6502 family CPU but with no original supported I/O output. There is game creation software available for the NES but productivity software even as good as for the C64 is difficult.

It may be possible to add SID core(s) to a 68k Amiga SoC, potentially with 6502 family cores and maybe even a whole C64 hardware core. The Sega Genesis/Mega Drive did something similar by taking the Sega Master System hardware including Z80 CPU and turning it into a sound and I/O chip while retaining high compatibility for the Sega Master System. The PS2 hardware also retained the PS1 hardware for I/O and compatibility by replicating the whole system on one of the PS2 two custom chips. Commodore failed to upgrade most C64 customers to the Amiga where compatibility is very important. While the Genesis was only ~3 years later and the logic/transistors of a C64 are small by today's standards, it would have been more difficult and expensive to squeeze a C64 on chip in 1985 (in the Paula chip?). I am not so sure it would be a good idea to do it now even though the transistors used would be insignificant. The resulting SID would likely produce a digital approximation and the C64 and SID would be difficult to enhance while retaining compatibility. It is probably better to use C64 FPGA simulation or CPU emulation. Commodore tried to have early C64 and PC emulators developed but they were crap even though better emulators came later. Commodore produced PC bridge board hardware add-ons where they likely would have been better off upgrading Amiga 68k CPUs and memory which could provide better PC, C64, Mac, etc. emulation. Commodore upper management understood expansion hardware but not hardware enhancement as a big part of the C64 success was due to standardization. They did not understand that it is possible to have enhancements for standard hardware and that the 68k Amiga was ahead of its time in already being designed for this. In fact, Moore's Law required incremental enhancement of standard hardware for survival. Starting over with new incompatible computer hardware designs every few years was not practical.

kolla Quote:

So what with the amiga do you consider "modern"?

The 68k Amiga has a SoC like system design with CPU, interrupt controller, timers, DMA, blitter and copper coprocessors, video display controller, audio, I/O support, etc. It is a shame that it was never further integrated from the 3 primary custom chips even though AA+ would have reduced the custom chips to two and a further plan for a single chip 68k SoC integrating the CPU and custom chips. A 68k SoC would have likely saved Commodore reducing the price of the Amiga 1200 and CD32 by ~$100 USD according to internal Commodore documentation. The 68k Amiga is a standard system not just standard CPU ISA like ARM standardized with ARM64/AArch64 after years of a la carte customizations to the earlier ARM ISAs. Android would not have needed an inefficient virtual machine if ARM SoCs were as standard as the 68k Amiga system. The 68k Amiga is similar to later console designs which are also standard systems benefiting from cheaper CPUs and reduced memory footprints due to better optimization of standard hardware than less standard desktop equivalents. Commodore had fallen behind at enhancing the 68k Amiga but chunky graphics and 16-bit 8 channel audio were planned and are already implemented in FPGA cores like SAGA along with digital video display output. There is 3D and USB support too even though it is not mature and limited by the size of affordable FPGAs. The 68k CPU cores are also limited by FPGA sizes and max clock speeds. FPGA limitations are what is keeping a 68k Amiga SoC from being as modern as RPi or VisionFive 2 SBC hardware.

The AmigaOS is a relatively modern minimalist RTOS. While it is tied to and optimized for the 68k, it provides one of the smallest memory footprint standard systems available. It is unfortunate that the standard system hardware it is optimized for is no longer produced but a 68k Amiga SoC could be produced for less than $1 USD. RPI produced 5.7 million RP2040 and RP2350 MCUs with a price of ~$1 USD in the last 12 months reporting period which is semi-standard hardware without a RTOS even though enhancement of standard hardware is easier with a minimalist standard RTOS like the AmigaOS. RPI tried to use the RISC OS from the Acorn Archimedes but ARM RISC OS can not match the 68k AmigaOS memory footprint even being programmed in ARM assembly language. Granted, the more modern 68k Amiga would be a challenge to get down to 520 kiB of memory too but more modular modules could be easily placed in flash Kickstart, compiling for the 68020 instead of 68000 saves memory and new 68k enhancements could save more yet as code is a large percentage of small footprint systems. The original 68k AmigaOS worked in 256 kiB of memory with a GUI which the now discontinued RISC OS for the RPI MCUs could not provide.

The 68k is still modern by CPU metrics and traits. The 68k was 2nd only to AArch64 for least number of instructions used when optimizing for size despite having 16 GP registers vs 32 GP registers which provides a savings for embedded use. The 68k code density is roughly tied with ARM Thumb-2 code density but I believe enhancements can provide ~5% improvement that should push it ahead of Thumb-2 code density which RISC-V has been aggressively aiming for with the introduction of many extensions as code density is very important for the embedded market. Most compressed ISAs like Thumb-2 and RVC have increased numbers of small instructions but the 68k not only uses fewer instructions than most compressed ISAs but competes with 32 GP register 32-bit fixed length encoded ISAs. More instructions to execute usually reduce performance and many of the increased instructions are dependent so can not not be superscalar executed in parallel even with OoO execution. The 3rd most important performance metric is memory accesses where the 68k also does not suffer from elevated memory accesses like most compressed ISAs, often due to only 8 GP registers available for compressed instructions where the 68k provides 16 GP registers in many compressed 16-bit instructions. CPU ISAs bloated up and made many mistakes with the introduction of RISC ISAs. The early 16-bit fixed length compresses RISC ISAs like SuperH and ARM Thumb had good code density but were handicapped by increased instructions and memory accesses. The 1979 68000 with 32-bit ISA has a large flat 4 GiB address space instead of common at the time 64 kiB address space requiring bank switching, 32-bit registers and 32-bit datatypes. Replacing the 68k 32-bit embedded market king with a non compressed fat PPC for the embedded market was one of the dumbest business mistakes in the history of computers, right up there with IBM choosing the 8088 instead of 68000. The mistakes they made can not be undone but the superior tech they discarded can be used and perhaps obtained at a discount due to being considered obsolete.

I believe the 68k Amiga with enhancements and modern silicon could be competitive in areas. There are areas where it is currently far from competitive like the desktop market. The 68k Amiga was designed to be upgraded though which has few limits given enough time of incremental upgrades moving in the right direction. Unfortunately, Amiga leadership prefers to live in Amiga Neverland where 68k Amiga opportunity after opportunity slip away like a bad dream. The PPC AmigaNOne is the dumbest product ever as it misses the one market where the Amiga does not need to be modern which is the retro market but attempts to be desktop hardware with the poorly suited for the desktop AmigaOS which is the one part of the Amiga they kept while using embedded PPC hardware that is less suitable for the embedded market and cheaper small memory footprint hardware than the 68k.

Last edited by matthey on 24-Jun-2026 at 02:19 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 23-Jun-2026 at 07:43 PM.

Kolla:

Quote:

"hey some people love how the sid sounds!"

Matthey:

Quote:

The 68k is still modern by CPU metrics/traits. The 68k was 2nd only to AArch64 for least number of instructions used when optimizing for size despite having 16 GP registers vs 32 GP registers which provides a savings for embedded use. The 68k code density is roughly tied with ARM Thumb-2 code density but I believe enhancements can provide ~5% improvement that should push it ahead of Thumb-2 code density which RISC-V has been aggressively aiming for with the introduction of many extensions as code density is very important for the embedded market. Most compressed ISAs like Thumb-2 and RVC have increased numbers of small instructions but the 68k not only uses fewer instructions than most compressed ISAs but competes with 32 GP register 32-bit fixed length encoded ISAs. More instructions to execute usually reduce performance and many of the increased instructions are dependent so can not not be superscalar executed in parallel even with OoO execution. The 3rd most important performance metric is memory accesses where the 68k also does not suffer from elevated memory accesses like most compressed ISAs, often due to only 8 GP registers available for compressed instructions where the 68k provides 16 GP registers in many compressed 16-bit instructions. CPU ISAs bloated up and made many mistakes with the introduction of RISC ISAs. The early 16-bit fixed length compresses RISC ISAs like SuperH and ARM Thumb had good code density but were handicapped by increased instructions and memory accesses. Replacing the 68k 32-bit embedded market king with a non compressed fat PPC for the embedded market was one of the dumbest business mistakes in the history of computers, right up there with IBM choosing the 8088 instead of 68000. The mistakes they made can not be undone but the superior tech they discarded can be used and perhaps obtained at a discount due to being considered obsolete.

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@matthey

Quote:

The PPC AmigaNOne is the dumbest product ever as it misses the one market where the Amiga does not need to be modern which is the retro market but attempts to be desktop hardware with the poorly suited for the desktop AmigaOS

well you need up to date clibs and 3d, and many things, to create new games, as well, or else. If you don’t need anything new, if you don’t need anything new, you don’t have a market.

It might lot better product, with just a few changes, like Paula and CIAA/CIAB timers. At least then you extend it to people who like to making music, and people who are fans of old module music. There is lot partially system friendly stuff as well, (supporting RTG, but does not support AHI, like demos)

I think there is a path foreword, where AmigaOS becomes two versions “NT/server 2003� version, and the desktop version (like Me, kind like it is right now)

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Jun-2026 at 10:40 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Jun-2026 at 10:40 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Jun-2026 at 10:37 AM.

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@thread

In regard to anyone discussing the CallBack phone:

what followed

#6

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@#6
Who puts a "small" flip phone in a backpack on their back?

They should have called the case the holster and the phone the misfire.

@matthey

If only they had pursued this retro option:

1983 Northern Telecom Commodore Phone Limited Edition.

#6

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@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: In regard to anyone discussing the CallBack phone: what followed

OMG another RipOff Trademark:
Backpack

OMG and another party claming a trademark:
Commodore Corporation BV

Laarderhoogtweg 25
Amsterdam 1101 EB
Netherlands

@OneTimer1

Quote:

OMG and another party claming a trademark: Commodore Corporation BV

Nah. Not new. The Commodore International Corporation trademarks of Christian's Commodore are still filed under the name of the company he purchased Commodore -from-.

At some point there will be an assignment at uspto from Commodore Corporation B.V. to Commodore International Corporation, but it may take some time to do so.

Until such time you can look at the 2 companies as one and the same to keep it simple.

#6

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#6 Quote:

If only they had pursued this retro option: 1983 Northern Telecom Commodore Phone Limited Edition.

That Commodore phone is indeed retro, it enforces the mobile digital detox and it is more appropriate to carry in a backpack. I like the Commodore bag better than a Commodore backpack too. Still probably not the best choice to make modern replicas.

@matthey

I'm sure you also noticed the word "holster" in the class description.

A Wild West bent?

#6

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#6 Quote:

I'm sure you also noticed the word "holster" in the class description. A Wild West bent?

Yea, I saw the description and wondered why they did not use "holster" instead of "backpack". The wild west is vintage if not retro. They could name the phone the "QuickShot" with a "Holster" case which would have retro gaming appeal. Look who is already using the name though.

https://presse.plaion.com/Retro-Games-Ltd-Announces-THEQUICKSHOT-II Quote:

Retro Games Ltd. (RGL), in partnership with PLAION REPLAI, is proud to announce THEQUICKSHOT II, a modern reimagining of one of the most iconic joysticks of the home-computer era. Reviving the unmistakable silhouette, hands-on feel, and arcade-inspired attitude of the original Quickshot II, this new USB-enabled controller brings authentic retro play into the modern age while honouring one of the most beloved pieces of gaming hardware ever made. ... The Quickshot II became a cultural touchstone because it wasn’t tied to just one machine. It helped define the gaming experience across nearly every major home-computer platform of its time. On the C64, the Quickshot II was everywhere. Its responsive trigger and arcade-like feel made it the controller of choice for classics such as Summer Games, International Karate, Impossible Mission, Uridium, and thousands more. For many players, the Quickshot II was the Commodore experience. In addition, ZX Spectrum owners gravitated toward the Quickshot II as a premium, more durable alternative to the basic sticks of the day. For beloved titles like Jet Set Willy and Saboteur, it offered the precision that Spectrum gaming demanded. The joystick’s legacy is further enhanced by its importance to yet more systems from the 1980s and 1990s. These include the Amstrad CPC, the Atari ST, and the Commodore Amiga. As Amiga games grew more ambitious with richer action, sharper controls, and greater precision, the Quickshot II’s build quality and ergonomics made it a mainstay on Amiga desks everywhere, further cementing its iconic status. Across all these platforms, the Quickshot II wasn’t just popular, it was defining. It shaped how an entire generation learned to play. ... Quickshot is a registered trademark of Subvert Ltd used under license.

I do not see any active USIPO trademark for it though. Watch someone try to trademark it now that I have pointed it out resulting in another round of retro lawfare. It would not be the first time. Lawfare is easier than developing until all business partners and potential business partners are exhausted. Hyperion found that out the hard way. Jack Tramiel also found out that business is war without allies when abusing business partners. The new Commodore does not want to repeat old Commodore mistakes though.

Last edited by matthey on 28-Jun-2026 at 10:06 PM.

Many people complained about the Commodore Callback smart flip phone price in the reveal video comments to which the common reply was the following.

RetroRecipes Quote:

Thanks for your comment. Skyrocketing component prices are a factor, however Callback starts at $499 ($449 on June 30th). That is simply what it costs us to make, and stay in business. The closest comparable - the Light Phone III - is $739 for the same bundle. We'll be putting out tons of content about this phone beyond this launch ad.

I surmised at the cost of memory earlier in the thread. Recently, Apple raised iPhone prices and I read an article about it.

Elon Musk, Tim Cook share warning on new crisis in America
https://www.thestreet.com/economy/elon-musk-and-tim-cook-sound-the-alarm-on-new-crisis-in-america-chip-crisis-apple Quote:

Cook’s WSJ interview landed in mid-June, but the real consequences came on June 25. CNBC reported that Apple announced price increases for Macs and iPads by hundreds of dollars that morning. Apple’s online store briefly went down as the updated prices went live. The stock fell more than 6%, the worst single-day drop since April 2025. ... Memory and storage chip prices have quadrupled in the past three quarters, according to Counterpoint Research, cited by CNBC. The cause is structural. Hyperscalers including Google, Microsoft, Meta, and Amazon need massive amounts of high-bandwidth memory to run AI data centers. Chip suppliers are steering production toward that demand because it is higher-margin and comes in larger, more predictable orders. ... The Wall Street Journal published a chart showing computer software and accessories prices rising about 15% year-over-year, something that last happened in the 1980s. The Journal called the AI data center buildout “a third wave of inflation,� after the energy and food inflation waves of 2022 and 2023. ... Counterpoint Research estimates that higher memory costs could add roughly $200 per iPhone for Apple. If that flows through to consumer prices, the phone that has become the default device for hundreds of millions of people gets meaningfully more expensive heading into the holiday cycle.

Apple iPhone prices could increase $200. The iPhone 17 has 8 GiB and the iPhone 17 Pro and Pro Max have 12 GiB of LPDDR5X memory. Minimum NAND memory storage is also 256 GiB. I earlier in this thread roughly estimated that, "The price of an 8 GiB phone could be increased by $80 USD or more for the cost of memory." I was being conservative in my estimate.

The memory crisis is another learning opportunity and missed opportunity for small footprint 68k Amiga hardware. A 1 GiB memory 68k Amiga is spacious and adequate for an entry level smart phone and many embedded applications if a wasteful Android virtual machine is not needed. A system with 8x the memory can have 8x the price increase due to rising memory prices. Instead of a $200 increase, 1/8 would be a $25 increase. Estimations are not that simple as NAND memory storage prices are also affected, where better code density also results in smaller programs, reduced storage requirements and faster loading times. As I mentioned earlier, the smart phone market would be difficult to enter but small memory footprint hardware like the RPi is not, especially below where 32-bit Thumb-2 Linux can easily scale which is turning into 64-bit AArch64 Linux. While RPI hardware prices are increasing too, they are by less than higher memory using competitors. RPI has a cost advantage due to a small memory footprint and can be expected to increase market share as a result of higher memory prices.

Full Disclosure: I own Apple shares.

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: Elon Musk, Tim Cook share warning on new crisis in America The stock fell more than 6%, the worst single-day drop since April 2025. The Wall Street Journal published a chart showing computer software and accessories prices rising about 15% year-over-year, something that last happened in the 1980s. Counterpoint Research estimates that higher memory costs could add roughly $200 per iPhone for Apple.

First world problems and most of them are US specific and made in the USA.

I never bought a mobile over 200€
I never bought something from Apple
I never bought something from Musk
Most people are spending to much money on things they don't really need.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 30-Jun-2026 at 05:53 AM.

@OneTimer1

Quote:

Most people are spending to much money on things they don't really need.

That is the truth!

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@thread

Interesting early sales report from a Commodore patreon who often posts updates for the new Commodore:

Source

#6

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@thread

Now reported multiple places that CallBack phone sales in hours have exceeded day 1 C64u (Ultimate) sales.

Might be wise to check the thread linked above once in a while in order to keep up.

#6

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PADDING

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