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      /  Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
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PosterThread
olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 12:23:58
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@Rassilon

I have an SE, but I don't use USB, so don't know. I think the SE has a MUCH bigger problem with USB than just debounce (I could never get it to work in Linux AT ALL, while people with XEs had no problems other than disconnecting...).


@Thread
If you have an SE and didn't take up Eyetechs offer to upgrade then all you can expect from me is an offer to have some cheese with your whine. I even built my own AC'97 soundcard to use with the SE, only to find out the port is a dead duck for some reason (same reason the XE now comes without sound).

Mine is almost three years old now, and it's running distributed.net 24/7. I sometimes download something and try it out, but I haven't felt like playing with a computer in my spare time since some time last year. I'll be doing some hardware at work in a month or so, hopefully I'll stop hating software for a short while then

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 12:25:43
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@DrBombcrater

So obviously all the hardware that didn't work in Linux was never debugged.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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DrBombcrater 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 12:41:09
#103 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@olegil

The 686B's USB controller has been supported under Linux for years. I have to wonder how they missed the fact that the SE's USB ports pretty much just don't work at all.

Anyway, on a brighter note, maybe this or this may prove to be a good lifeboat if no fixes happen for the SE. The USB controller is OHCI and the UDMA/SATA chip is apparently a Sil3112.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 12:53:44
#104 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@olegil

Quote:
If you have an SE and didn't take up Eyetechs offer to upgrade then all you can expect from me is an offer to have some cheese with your whine.


Like I said before, at the time that ment putting some extra money down. And with OS4 still far away I had no intention to do so. If I did I still would have to put more money down later on (like now) for the fixes.

So bring on the cheese!

Coder

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LottaRosie 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 13:41:57
#105 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Dec-2003
Posts: 92
From: Germany

@kgrach
be sure, i have the right equipment, the skills and expiriences, to do that work. I am an electronic-design engeneer and have to solder every day such kind of SMD-parts on and off my prototypes:) Never i will send my board to my dealer. I can do it by myself.
Need only a manual. The only problem !

regards

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painter 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 17:08:54
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 681
From: Manitoba, Canada

@mlehto


and some XE boards I shipped my EX before Xmas for the fixes in dma and usb. still waiting for it to come back. the dealer is charging shipping but not for the fixes.

painter


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Steff 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 18:21:29
#107 ]
Super Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 1342
From: Göteborg, Sweden

@RedMelons

Quote:
Link please?


OK so I don't have a link. It still hardly exempts you from the responsibility of making a knowledgable purchase. If you found out about the AOne's for sale then I find it difficult believing that you didn't know that there could be problems. I find it hard to believe someone outside the "immediate family" suddenly finds an ad for an AOne and goes out and buys it.

I can only say that when the XE's went on sale I was told by my dealer that the on-board sound wasn't working and that there was no OS and that it wasn't soemthing for the faint of heart!

This didn't matter to me because when I put in my order I already knew about these problems. I had no idea about the USB but at that time who did (or could) since we didn't have software support for USB to try it out on. The DMA was being worked on but that was an issue that also was known (they did say a fix was possible and it is).

If they have put out ads saying that all these things were working then I have missed them.

If you are troubled by these things then by all means do what you can to rectify them but please try to keep things in perspective.

I think anyone totally surprised with the results SHOULD complain to his dealer (Gunne more or less has covered his back by informing me at the time of purchase that this was untried hardware, and since I knowingly made the purchase, I can't put him at fault.)

Quote:
A small number of the first G3-SE's may have been beta-boards, but that certainly did not apply to the 'Earlybird' boards.


I'm finding it hard to decide exactly where you are drawing the line here. OS4 wasn't even out in prereplease when the XE boards went on sale (I'm not even sure there were boards MADE after the launch of the prerelease) but at this time it was clear that the on-board sound wasn't working (and probably never would) and that there were issues with the DMA(april, mai da, da,da,da,da).

Go figure! I'm an idiot, so that's probaly why I got what I expected, a machine running OS4!

_________________
Fixed A1G4XE 7455 RX933PC with fried CPU
Sapphire Radeon 9100 128mb
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RedMelons 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 19:14:00
#108 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1062
From: Merrie Olde England

@Steff

Quote:
If they have put out ads saying that all these things were working then I have missed them.


Please read the thread in the AmigaOne owners forum where I posted some extracts from the relevent advertisments.

If you don't have any back copies of Total Amiga, you can download issue 14 (Spring 2003) from:

http://www.totalamiga.org/pdf/totalamiga_14.pdf

The Summer 2003 issue carried the same advert but it is not included in the downloadable pdf.

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Paul 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 20:03:15
#109 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 616
From: Michigan

@Steff

Quote:
I'm finding it hard to decide exactly where you are drawing the line here. OS4 wasn't even out in prereplease when the XE boards went on sale (I'm not even sure there were boards MADE after the launch of the prerelease) but at this time it was clear that the on-board sound wasn't working (and probably never would) and that there were issues with the DMA(april, mai da, da,da,da,da).


I like to think that I was fairly well informed about things Amiga'ish since the time of C='s collapse and before. Hey, I had even pre-ordered a BoXeR board from AntiGravity (remember them??) when they were first announced. (The reason I still have an LS120 drive for my A1... but that's another story.)

When I first ordered my A1, it was an order for an SE because that's all there was: SE developer boards. Not that I am any kind of developer. I just believe that much in Amiga. Since I couldn't write software or do hardware engineering, the only thing I could do to be supportive is buy the product.

Since I wasn't capable of actually helping with development, I missed out on the first batch of boards. That allowed me to change my order to an XE board before shipment actually occurred.

In that whole process (and believe me, I was trolling the boards and lists for every scrap of information I could get) there was no indication that we were supposed to expect a crippled board with no sound, DMA problems known ahead of time, or USB problems. There wasn't even some generic "this is beta hardware so don't expect it to actually work" kind of warning for the "earlybird" order'ers in those early days.

I searched for Amiga news almost daily, as I still do now, and I was COMPLETELY surpised to find out that sound would not work, and that DMA had problems. It was after my board was received, installed and set up to run Linux that we started to hear there were DMA problems. And even at that point, we were told it was going to require nothing more than either a UBoot or driver fix.

Certainly people who came along in this game a little later had opportunity to hear that sound wasn't working, or there were issues with DMA. But early customers of the XE boards were NOT issued warnings that we were getting untested, broken hardware.

Paul

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 21:49:03
#110 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@DrBombcrater

Hey, these boards looks fine :) (I try to keep my positive attitude...)

But really, they have even firewire... do anyone knows, if fw hardware is same way unified as USB OCHI/UCHI/ECHI ?? So it will be possible to drive all cards with one driver ??

Miikka

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DrBombcrater 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 22:11:20
#111 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@mlehto

I believe the OHCI specification covers Firewire chips as well as USB. It may not matter, as the pictures of the prototype uA1 Industrial show it using the same VIA chip that's used on the Siig card. Presumably any future OS4 Firewire stack would ship with suitable drivers for that part.

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 22:17:10
#112 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@DrBombcrater

Some good news after all, since I realised, that XE-fix might not work in SE-boards :| ( #&?£#!!... )

I would have anyway use for FW, so it may be good solution.

Miikka


Last edited by mlehto on 03-Jan-2005 at 10:21 PM.
Last edited by mlehto on 03-Jan-2005 at 10:17 PM.

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mjohnson 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 23:00:21
#113 ]
Super Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2003
Posts: 1297
From: going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

@Coder

Quote:
the key part is that we all just want to have Eyetech say something. That's all. Come out and talk with us here.

While I agree with that, I think we all know that if/when Eyetech do comment on this issue, that's when all hell will break free.

Hopefully they'll make a statement once they have something to say. It's my impression that while Eyetech are mostly quiet, they've been pretty open about the state of things when they do speak up.


I'll also add that my A1 is getting the job done pretty neatly. I haven't noticed any real problem with the USB, not that I've used it all that much but I've plugged in/out my camera a bit (which gets recognized, but to no avail since it's not a mass storage) and I've also inserted/removed/reinserted a CF from my card reader, and I don't see any problem with it. So maybe I've got a working (later batch?) mobo, or I've just had a streak of luck.

As for the other problems, well, sound was well known at the time i bought my board. The IDE controller is unfortunate, but things work pretty okay here now with my sii card. Even Linux runs at usable speeds now, and I haven't run into any DMA corruption yet.

Maybe I'll send it in for patching once someone around this part of the world offers that service, though I'm not in a rush. Besides, I don't know what I'd do without her for days straight.


I might also add that I have an XE, so that's another thing in my favour...


For the record, my dealer was rather upfront about the fact that this wasn't an ideal end-user solution and that it was unknown when OS4 would be released and that Linux pretty much came with community-support only.
He never specifically said that the board would be "broken" in so many different and interesting ways (which wasn't really known at the time), but we had "Eva" for that. But did we listen to him/her? Nooooooo!


@DaveP

Quote:
PCMCIA was a standard at the time and C= failed to meet the specs
of that standard yet still claimed it was PCMCIA

I remember hearing ages ago that the 1200 was released before the PCMCIA standard was finalized, so they went with some sort of RFC or similar floating about at the time. I guess that was just smoke and mirrors then..

_________________
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RedMelons 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 23:05:56
#114 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1062
From: Merrie Olde England

@mjohnson

Quote:
we all know that if/when Eyetech do comment on this issue, that's when all hell will break free


Yes, which is one reason why I think that Eyetech should stop communicating with customers through web forums, and instead send direct communications to those affected.

We can then leave the forums for general moaning while knowing that we are receiving the necessary support for our purchases.

Last edited by RedMelons on 03-Jan-2005 at 11:06 PM.

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Hammer 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 23:25:03
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3944
From: Australia

Quote:

mlehto wrote:

Anyway my A1 works far better with OS4, than Linux. Maybe, because drivers are better suitable for mobo and maybe because of sil. Anyway I don't feel hopeless. There is allways possibilities to make mistakes with hw. And a12k boards have allso some rewirings and part-replacements in some boards. Even Pc-mobos have every now and then "extra-wiring". Normally they are made by factory, not by 3rd parties

Usually, PC motherboards undergo several ?engineering releases? before the general release. Modern X86 PC-mobos should at least work with Microsoft?s Ultra DMA drivers or they don?t get "Designed for Windows XP" logo.

Several preview HW PC sites already stated the reasonability good stability condition* with NVIDIA?s nForce4 and ATI?s Xpress200 references i.e. able to complete the usual suite of benchmark and games. *With PCI-Ex and DMA operational.

Last edited by Hammer on 03-Jan-2005 at 11:35 PM.

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 23:54:40
#116 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@Hammer

>Usually, PC motherboards undergo several "engineering releases" before the general release.

Yep ... but it is bloody expencive and not really posibble for amiga-mobos just now :)


Miikka

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gadgetgaz 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 4-Jan-2005 9:47:46
#117 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 203
From: Yorkshire, UK

@RedMelons

"Yes, which is one reason why I think that Eyetech should stop communicating with customers through web forums, and instead send direct communications to those affected."

Well, I whole-heartedly agree with this statement. Maybe then I would have known about the £50 upgrade offer for G4 cards instead of learning a year later that they were now £200. Apparently, Eyetech let it be known on the forums when the deal ended. Obviously, I didn't monitor that particular forum.

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Rudei 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 4-Jan-2005 17:04:04
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3577
From: Dallas, Texas

@hooligan

You had to stick your oar in didn't you

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Rudei 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 4-Jan-2005 17:07:30
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3577
From: Dallas, Texas

@Paul

Am I missing the whole point of this "no sound" issue.
I've plugged in a soundblaster Live! on ym A1XE and it works fine...

Whats the problem?

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Nissan GTR '08

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 4-Jan-2005 17:11:03
# ]

0
0

@Rudei

Some of the early A1s that shipped had broken AC97 compatible on board sound chip.

The later ones shipped without that AC97 chip onboard.

Modules plugged into PCI slots work just peachy. I bought mine with a good soundcard
so Im all right jack.

Dave.

 
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