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      /  Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
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PosterThread
Paul 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:02:39
#141 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 616
From: Michigan

@Rudei

Quote:
Full DMA drive access, this is a speed issue I take it?


Yes. I never did any benchmarking. But the speed with which full partition copying takes place is visibly faster with the DMA on.

Pre-DMA: go get a drink, see what's on the television.
Post-DMA: wait half a minute and go on to next task.

Paul

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Builder of Frankenthousand, the monster A1000
The Young Frankenthousand A1-XE G4

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hotrod 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:16:55
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2778
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Paul

Exactly, it makes a huge difference. The other thing that's important is that it doesn't use much CPU (close to nothing) with DMA on. I think that it's even more important than the USB-fix but both are important and should be made available as much as possible.

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Rudei 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:18:07
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3577
From: Dallas, Texas

@hotrod

Excuse my ignorance.

For DMA access, I need a Sil Card?

_________________
Nissan GTR '08

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tomazkid 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:21:58
#144 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@Rudei

Quote:
For DMA access, I need a Sil Card?


Yes, if you wan't to use dma and ethernet at the same time.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:22:28
# ]

0
0

@Rudei

Without the dealer patch on the A1XE and A1SE in order to use DMA on a hard disk at the same
time as DMA on ethernet you need to have a sil card in a pci slot driving the hard disk as the
built in ide controller has a bug...

Choice: get a sil card OR get the dealer patch.

Dave.

 
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lionstorm 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 17:55:42
#146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 1557
From: the french side

@DaveP

Quote:

DaveP wrote:
@Rudei

Without the dealer patch on the A1XE and A1SE in order to use DMA on a hard disk at the same
time as DMA on ethernet you need to have a sil card in a pci slot driving the hard disk as the
built in ide controller has a bug...

Choice: get a sil card OR get the dealer patch.

Dave.


and thats only for os4 but the DMA bug will remain on the linux side even with a sil card since the amigaone can not do cache coherency.

Lio

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FuZion 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 18:31:23
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 1962
From: Birmingham, England

I haven't read this thread, it's FAR too big.

I have an A1-XE G4 & only know of the DMA problem on the board. Beyond that, you've got me. I am going to say though is this:

To all those that made the AmigaOne a reality, to all those that believed in it, went out & paid their money. Thank you.

Yes there may be issues & it's a shame but at the end of the day, if none of us that done the deed & purchased one in the first place. There would be no AmigaOne AT ALL!!! No current home for AmigaOS4. I may even be somewhere else [Shudders].

These are after all, developer boards. The early stages. The ones that are used to determine whether or not fixes & changes need to be made. In that light I would gladly buy a 'finished consumer' board knowing that, in my role as a purchaser, I have helped it happen. That is all.

/Blurry Eyed Mode

FuZion.

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Rudei 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 18:33:43
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3577
From: Dallas, Texas

@FuZion

Nice one.

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Nissan GTR '08

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 19:02:28
# ]

0
0

@lionstorm

Actually I think you might be wrong. IIRC the kernel has a patch that bypasses the
cache coherency problem and then it used to hit the ethernet/ide problem causing loss on
network transfer.

I have heard ( although I have not tried it myself ) that using the sil cards instead of
on board ide bypasses the final problem even for Linux.

Regards

Dave.

 
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gnarly 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 21:45:16
#150 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2003
Posts: 742
From: Cheltenham, UK

@DaveP
Quote:
Choice: get a sil card OR get the dealer patch.

And be very grateful that its an Sil and not an Adaptec card: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20511

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deakmann 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 5-Jan-2005 21:53:50
#151 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 358
From: Unknown

@DaveP

Actually I think you might be wrong. IIRC the kernel has a patch that bypasses
the cache coherency problem and then it used to hit the ethernet/ide problem
causing loss on network transfer.

The new kernels have a hack which allows Linux to work without coherency, which
the Articia S lacks. It works for me , but some still say it`s not a 100%
solution. This is a completely different problem to the Via and Ethernet not
working correctly together.





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Chris_Y 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 6-Jan-2005 10:21:35
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3134
From: Beds, UK

@Daedalus

It's already out - the MicroA1-C is the newest board available at the moment. The MicroA1-I should be out very soon, and the A1-XC may be out later this year. Production of the XE was suspended while the DMA fix was being worked out, I don't know whether they are going to make a new batch.

_________________
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Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

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tonyw 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 3:03:23
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3158
From: Sydney (of course)

The USB "issue" is this:

Some XEs (and perhaps SEs, but I don't know about them) were fitted with capacitors instead of pullup resistors on the USB signal lines (two for each of the four USB ports). The effect is that when a device is unplugged, its absence is not noted and so it is not detached. It may be that this is why some mass-storage devices are not detected unless they are plugged in before the power is turned on, but I don't know for sure.

Anyway, it does not affect things like mouses, keyboards, printers, all the stuff you are likely to use. The only time it can cause a problem is if you disconnect something, then reconnect it - it might not reappear, or might appear twice. On my XE, I can connect/disconnect any number of mouses and they all attach and detach properly, so I don't have a problem.

If you do have a problem, the easy fix is to use an external USB hub (one of those $10 dual- or four-port hubs that you can get from any newsagent). That isolates the attach/detach action from the XE port and guarantees proper operation. That's all you need, and it even gives you additional flexibility - more ports!

tony

Last edited by tonyw on 08-Jan-2005 at 03:07 AM.
Last edited by tonyw on 08-Jan-2005 at 03:05 AM.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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tomazkid 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 5:11:49
#154 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@tonyw

Quote:
If you do have a problem, the easy fix is to use an external USB hub (one of those $10 dual- or four-port hubs that you can get from any newsagent). That isolates the attach/detach action from the XE port and guarantees proper operation. That's all you need, and it even gives you additional flexibility - more ports!


Thanks for the information Tony
At least it is easier to install an USB hub than the Sil-ide-controller was.
And not too expensive either.

On the downside, what a surprise!

Yet another on-board feature that needs to be replaced by a external device.


At least this doesn't require a PCI-slot.

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 5:35:07
#155 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@tonyw

Since some USB-hubs works and others not, will you please tell mark and model of it in here and additionally add it to intuitionbase ? Thanks :)

This is for others also, if you find working hardware, please share information with others :)


Miikka

Last edited by mlehto on 08-Jan-2005 at 05:38 AM.
Last edited by mlehto on 08-Jan-2005 at 05:38 AM.

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olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 6:10:06
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@FuZion

And another thing that should be noted is that the chance of Eyetech getting into a position where replacing peoples boards isn't a big obstacle is infinetely larger if a: people shut up and deal with it AND b: the bugs are fixed in the next shipments, so new customers can expect to have a working product. Ok, so the DMA+Ethernet lockup thingie was a bad one, but it CAN be fixed, and it HAS been fixed in all boards produced after the discovery. Therefore a customer should NOT worry about that, his board will work just fine. Those who have the problem already will have to either wait, pay for fix or use the PCI slots. Like Dennis Leary said it, "Life sucks, get a ####ing helmet"

The way people are whining for Eyetech to replace their boards I for one wouldn't even CONSIDER buying an AmigaOne if I didn't know those people are severly missing the point. A newcomer would be instantly scared away. YAY, we got Eyetech to replace our board. OOPS, Eyetech went out of business and Hyperion no longer have a target for OS4 so they stop developing. Now I have a doorstop. And it cost me a fortune (actually, it didn't. I got it quite cheap, and it was almost 3 years ago. I really want a A1 to get into the race once again ). Way to go!

Better half a cookie now, than no cookie at all, I say.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 6:12:28
#157 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@FuZion

[Quoted:]
I am going to say though is this:

>To all those that made the AmigaOne a reality, to all those that believed in it, went out & paid their money. Thank you.

Cannot say it better.

[Quoted]:
Yes there may be issues & it's a shame but at the end of the day, if none of us that done the deed & purchased one in the first place. There would be no AmigaOne AT ALL!!! No current home for AmigaOS4. I may even be somewhere else [Shudders].

Exactly ! This situation is not maybe ideal, but it could be worse, lot of worse.

[Quoted]:
These are after all, developer boards. The early stages. The ones that are used to determine whether or not fixes & changes need to be made. In that light I would gladly buy a 'finished consumer' board knowing that, in my role as a purchaser, I have helped it happen. That is all.


Agreed ...

Miikka

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olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 6:13:24
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@gnarly

And for an Adaptec card, that wasn't even THAT much more expensive

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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mlehto 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 6:32:23
#159 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Dec-2004
Posts: 1006
From: Unknown

@olegil

>The way people are whining for Eyetech to replace their boards I for one wouldn't even CONSIDER buying an AmigaOne if I didn't know those people are severly missing the point. A newcomer would be instantly scared away.

And whining without solution is pointless and waste of time.

This is public channel, open for everyone to check, how is Amiga today. Not good, if he/she see only troubles around.

That is something, what we may think more ... we have future out there, but not without new users.

>YAY, we got Eyetech to replace our board. OOPS, Eyetech went out of business and Hyperion no longer have a target for OS4 so they stop developing.

This scenario is more worse than my *maybe* partially working SE. I have sil0680. It works. If I badly want USB, I can buy USB card. Of course I'm short of 2 PCI slots then, but there is combo solutions also. And anyway,
I see my future in XC. And personally, future of Amiga is more important for me than this SE board, what I have.


Miikka

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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 8-Jan-2005 6:52:29
#160 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@olegil

About the whining. You see for some people, make it a lot, it would be nice to hear some info. And yes all that talking might scare of the new people that want to buy a board. It might seem by all these threads that all the owners have no idea what to do, were to go, what can be done etc. Guess what? That is exactly the case. I want to know if there will be a fix for the SE boards. Not a maybe, not a we are looking into it, not a think so etc. But a yes or a no. Will there be a fix yes or no. That's all I want to know.

But hey who am I kidding? I mean that we will see a statement soon about what can be done or not.

Coder

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