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      /  Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
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drHirudo 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 6:48:16
#81 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1082
From: Sofia

The Classic Amigas also have hardware bugs - for example the A1200, which sold in magnitudes more, have the well known PCMCIA bug, which needed fix, else the network cards wouldn't work, but I don't remember anyone going to sue Commodore for this.

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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 6:59:01
#82 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@DaveP

Quote:
although it bothers me that people who will not work around it with a plugin powered USB hub do not yet have an option


Does anyone got a hub like that on the SE that makes everything work?

@all

You can't blame people for throwing up some negative talk here. I understand people that are really frustrating about this. But I can the key part is that we all just want to have Eyetech say something. That's all. Come out and talk with us here. That alone will take away a lot of the frustration. It won't cost much to come here and discuss this with us. One thing this all does is that people that want to buy an Amiga are thinking twice to do so. And that ain't good.

Coder

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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 7:06:28
#83 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@kgrach

Quote:
Folks instead of screaming here, please just contact your dealer.


It's not really screaming. It's telling the way it is and how we feel.

Quote:
Uhh correct me if I am wrong, I thought Eyetech did offer an upgrade to SE owners. I was offered and took it to upgrade my SE to an XE board.


Yes but I did not feel like putting money down for a new mobo while OS4 was still far away./

Coder

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 7:07:24
# ]

0
0

@Coder

"Product compatibility module" couldn't come soon enough it seems. Yes, and I keep
forgetting about the SE! Sorry.

Dave.

 
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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 7:47:15
#85 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@DaveP

Quote:
Yes, and I keep forgetting about the SE! Sorry.


I wonder if there will be any fixes for the SE. I hope so.

Coder

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PulsatingQuasar 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 8:38:15
#86 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 550
From: The Netherlands, Europe

@Coder

I also am very interrested in how Eyetech is going to fix this? I want to have these problems fixed somehow and I don't want to wait for the summer to have it happen. The fixes are already known so something needs to happen in this front NOW.

I know that we have a 2 year guarantee so I wonder how that is employed.

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Coder 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 8:41:38
#87 ]
Team Member
Joined: 15-May-2003
Posts: 4523
From: The Netherlands

@PulsatingQuasar

I don't think Eyetech is going to release the info. Just to dealers. So that no one will try to do it self. And yes I like to see some statement about this. Tell us what the current situation is.

Coder

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RedMelons 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 10:45:27
#88 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1062
From: Merrie Olde England

@Steff

Quote:
It has been clearly stated that these are "developer/beta" boards and that an official release will occur at the same time as OS4.


Link please?

I have referred in this thread and on the AmigaOne owners' forum to the advertisements placed by Eyetech in 'Total Amiga', which in my opinion constitute the official position of Eyetech on the status of the AmigaOne product. These adverts do not in ANY way suggest that there are defects, problems or risks associated with the AmigaOne hardware, only that OS4 is not ready.
I have NEVER seen Eyetech say in print or in forums "these are developer/beta boards". That seems to have been done only by users claiming to speak for Eyetech. Eyetech never back these statements up. Every statement I have seen by Eyetech suggests that the AmigaOne hardware is a complete, quality assured product.

A small number of the first G3-SE's may have been beta-boards, but that certainly did not apply to the 'Earlybird' boards.

@anyone saying 'contact your dealer'

I suspect that for a majority of owners (certainly those of us in the UK), Eyetech IS (or was?) our dealer. The point of this thread is that Eyetech are somewhat reticent to discuss the problems and solutions.

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 10:52:53
# ]

0
0

@RedMelons

1. Who has claimed to speak for Eyetech? Point them out.

2. Yes Eyetech IS my dealer too. But the point is not one of moral obligation, its about consumer law, and sale of goods act its the vendors responsibility to replace goods/repair as part of your statutory rights. Thats why I recommended starting there. Thats ALSO why I added "if you are not satisfied go to Eyetech, if not satisfied there go to court". If Eyetech is your dealer then really only one step. Its also why I mentioned "Eyetechs direct customers". Its a point of process, but a vital one.

At this stage you have a choice, you can either get in a snit and post angry comments on fora, or follow tried and tested routes of getting "satisfaction". I prefer to do the latter, but I have also pointed out in this thread that doing the former also brings pressure to bear on Eyetech and the dealers.

Dave.

 
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DrBombcrater 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:01:15
#90 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@drhirudo

Quote:
The Classic Amigas also have hardware bugs - for example the A1200, which sold in magnitudes more, have the well known PCMCIA bug, which needed fix, else the network cards wouldn't work, but I don't remember anyone going to sue Commodore for this.

There's a huge difference between the two situations. Commodore's machines worked as advertised -- the PCMCIA issue was not a bug because C= never said you could put a network card in that port. It was specced for memory cards only. Same with other 'bugs' like the timing problems on some A1200s that caused accelerators to fail. The trapdoor slot was intended for memory expansion cards, not accelerators.

I bought one of the very first batch of Rev 1A A1200s and the majority of those machines had broken TV modulators, but fixed replacements were issued by either dealers or Commodore to anyone who wanted one.

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:09:22
# ]

0
0

@DrBombcrater

Like USB1 and USB2, PCMCIA was a standard at the time and C= failed to meet the specs
of that standard yet still claimed it was PCMCIA. To me CC_RESET is a similar failure
as failing to support the removal of USB devices whilst powered on.

Then there is the buster chip debacle. :-/

Im not trying to play this down, but put it in perspective. Its a bummer and people deserve
an apology for the ####up but whats most important is to get systems fixed. Where no fix is
offerred and people left out in the cold ( if it happens ) as an Eyetech customer chances are I
will end up being one of them. If in that case, the customer base needs to work together to take
constructive steps ( not just blowing off hot air and chest beating ) to get our boards working
the way so many other peoples boards have been fixed by other dealers ( or so its claimed ).

Im giving it a month from now, then I think its time to form a group to get this sorted out. Until
then, Ill sit by and wait, discuss this with fellow A1 owners as needed.

Dave.

 
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olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:15:39
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@Eric_S

The early bird gets the worm, obviously

_________________
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Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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RedMelons 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:20:04
#93 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1062
From: Merrie Olde England

@DaveP

Quote:
Who has claimed to speak for Eyetech?


I am not suggesting that anybody has been officially appointed by Eyetech to speak for them, or that anybody has said "I speak for Eyetech".

It does however seem to me, that when somebody makes a statement about an Eyetech product which Eyetech have not made themselves, then that person is indeed speaking 'in place of' Eyetech. I am not trying to be legalistic here DaveP, just commenting on issues as I see them.

Quote:
you can either get in a snit


Sorry DaveP, English is my first language, but I have no idea what a 'snit' is.

Quote:
and post angry comments on fora


Who has posted 'angry' comments?

Quote:
if you are not satisfied go to Eyetech, if not satisfied there go to court


I don't think anybody wants to, or thinks anybody should, go to court. That would not help anybody.

I am however a bit concerned that every problem with my AmigaOne has to be sorted out by trawling internet sites for snippets of information and hoping that the corrective measures suggested by other users are correct. The cost and responsibility always falls on the user:

My sound doesn't work - buy a new soundcard.

My computer is unstable - change the voltage settings to a value posted on a user's website.

DMA doesn't work - buy a new SII card.

USB doesn't work - try to find somebody who will hack your motherboard for you.

All I would like to see is better customer support from Eyetech. In my opinion these issues should be dealt with by direct statements from the dealer to the user. If Eyetech already have plans to deal with this, then I apologise. I am presently though a bit sceptical.

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olegil 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:20:20
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@tomazkid

USB Fix: Swap capacitors for resistors, OR use a hub
DMA Fix: Solder in a couple of wires and cut a couple of traces, OR use a separate IDE controller.

How is this difficult? If you cannot go for the hi-tech solution, you're gonna have to go for the low-tech one.

All earlybirds KNEW that the hardware had never been tested. OS4 wasn't ready, and Linux didn't support everything on the board. Thus it was a risk we had to take. We took it. It failed, we need to do some modification. Big deal.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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DrBombcrater 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:23:44
#95 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@DaveP

Quote:
Like USB1 and USB2, PCMCIA was a standard at the time and C= failed to meet the specs

But they were quite up-front about it. I never saw any C= literature that didn't list the PCMCIA slot as for 'memory expansion'.

Quote:
Then there is the buster chip debacle. :-/

Indeed, but a fix for that was available in the form of new Buster chips. They should have been supplied for free, but a paid-for fix is better than none.

Quote:
Im giving it a month from now, then I think its time to form a group to get this sorted out. Until then, Ill sit by and wait, discuss this with fellow A1 owners as needed.

That sounds like a reasonable plan, but it's going to be a damn shame if the situation actually drags on for a month without some kind of resolution. There's enough bad feeling swilling about already.


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Rassilon 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:24:40
#96 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@olegil

I know that you have an SE mobo, can you confirm that buying a hub (powered or unpowered) does indeed solve the debounce issue?

thanks

Lewis

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Anonymous 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:25:49
# ]

0
0

@RedMelons

Understood and I do see your point of view, I speculated on your anger because of your
use of all-caps words.

I too don't want to end up in court, but if I feel in a months time like I have a case
then Im not afraid to stand up for my statutory rights. Its not a threat, but in a months time
Ill join any consumer action group already running for this purpose or form one. I don't want
to hurt any of the companies, but I do want, where possible, to get all my boards fixed.

What I am doing this afternoon is working on an Xoops extension to allow us users to record
our experiences ( compatibility/incompatibility/error/problem/nitpick ) with OS4, AmigaONE
and Linux in one searchable place. The best information from which should, in my view, be filtered
onto a site like intuitionbase.com.

However its going to take time to get this module working, and Ive already wasted a lot of today on
the forum

Over and out!

Dave.

 
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itix 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:31:55
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@drhirudo

Incorrect. It was possible to use a network card without HW or SW fix. When A1200 was powered on you had to reinsert your network card to make it work.

And to my best knowledge PCMCIA reset problem was not HW bug but "feature" in Kickstart ROM. There are SW patches at Aminet to get around this. HW fix for PCMCIA was superfluous.

(Offtopic but I wanted to correct this.)

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poweramiga2002 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:49:50
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 1389
From: Flinders NSW Australia

@DaveP

It seems to me that Eytech need to make some kind of statement
otherwise things are going to get out of hand
and next thing we will be seing is a law suit against them

further damaging the Amiga

Eyetch its your move !!!

as for my point of view

i purchased an earlybird computer untested going into the unknown
The dma problem fixed i have sil card
sound problem fixed i have sb live
usb problem fixed my friend who is a technition replaced the caps for resisters

so for me i have no issues with Eytech

My A1G4XE@1066mhz runs perfectly is rock stable and so far alls working with the work arounds

Last edited by poweramiga2002 on 03-Jan-2005 at 11:51 AM.

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DrBombcrater 
Re: Apparently the A1XE/SE USB needs a HW fix too!
Posted on 3-Jan-2005 11:53:21
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@olegil

Quote:
USB Fix: Swap capacitors for resistors,

Yep, dead easy if you have good soldering skills -- and know which caps need swapping. If that information was available I'd already have tried the mod. I'm no electronics engineer, so guessing isn't an option.

Quote:
OR use a hub

There seems to be no confirmation yet that a hub fixes anything on the SE, either the debounce thing or the mass-storage lockups.

Quote:
DMA Fix: Solder in a couple of wires and cut a couple of traces,

These forums are full of warnings from people who've had the DMA mod done that it's a hugely tricky task, involving specialist soldering gear and nerves of steel. Few people are going to be able to do it if the mod is that hard.

I fixed maybe three or four dozen motherboards last year, so I've a better than average chance of being able to D.I.Y the fix, but without details of exactly what work needs doing it's all a bit academic.

Quote:
All earlybirds KNEW that the hardware had never been tested.

From Eyetech's web site, March 2002(long before my A1 was even built) :

"Will it run Linux? Yes - in fact that's how the AmigaOneG3-SE hardware design was debugged."


In light of statements like that I think it's totally reasonable to have bought an A1 on the basis that the hardware had been tested and any major faults ironed out.

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