Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5653 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
48 crawler(s) on-line.
 8 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 saimon69

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 saimon69:  2 mins ago
 SOFISTISOFTWARE:  15 mins ago
 Severin:  16 mins ago
 IRTheBorg:  22 mins ago
 saipaman4366:  23 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  33 mins ago
 ekam:  39 mins ago
 davidf215:  41 mins ago
 Trixie:  54 mins ago
 RobertB:  56 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Hardware
      /  PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Register To Post

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
ferrels 
PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 4:51:57
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

Very interesting development. This opens up the possibility of FPGA systems running OS4

https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/08/20/big-blue-open-sources-power-chip-instruction-set/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 4:58:18
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1371
From: N-Space

@ferrels

I like it! I've been looking forward to RISC-V, which has been making slow progress, but POWER is obviously much further along. This is probably a last-ditch effort to remain relevant, but I think it stands a better chance than MIPS.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ferrels 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 5:01:19
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

@bison

I like the fact that it means the end of boutique prices for systems running OS4. Now an OS4 system could be designed and manufactured for around the same cost as a Vampire.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Trixie 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 7:27:47
#4 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1804
From: Czech Republic

@ferrels

Quote:
Now an OS4 system could be designed and manufactured for around the same cost as a Vampire.

Yes, of course. Keep dreaming.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bennymee 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 8:13:38
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 519
From: Netherlands

@ferrels

Or put 1 of the existing PowerPC cpu's on a turboboard, which is many, many times faster, cheaper to realize and with a lower pricetag.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ferrels 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 9:13:49
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

@bennymee

Quote:
Or put 1 of the existing PowerPC cpu's on a turboboard, which is many, many times faster, cheaper to realize and with a lower pricetag.



A turbo board placed into what? Some system that doesn't even exist? I don't know of a single OS4 system that has a slot for an accelerator board. And cheaper than an X5000 or a Tabor? You must be joking as an FPGA is many times cheaper than either of these.

BTW, there's already a PPC softcore for Xilinx FPGA's

https://openpowerfoundation.org/the-next-step-in-the-openpower-foundation-journey/

It won't be long before someone has an FPGA system booting OS4.

Last edited by ferrels on 21-Aug-2019 at 09:14 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ferrels 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 9:36:16
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

@Trixie

Quote:
Yes, of course. Keep dreaming.


No need to dream. FPGA's made new and improved classic Amigas a reality with the Vampire and FPGA's will do the same for cheap OS4 systems. It won't be long before someone has modified the PPC softcore for the Xilinx board to boot and run OS4.

https://openpowerfoundation.org/the-next-step-in-the-openpower-foundation-journey/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
K-L 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 10:06:11
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1310
From: Oullins, France

@ferrels

At the speed of a BlizzardPPC ? Great...

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bennymee 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 11:27:49
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 519
From: Netherlands

@ferrels

A turboboard like BlizzardPPC which can be placed in a A1200.

Many times ? Vampire FPGA turboboard is 350e, but what speed reaches the PowerPC core in a FPGA like the Vampire: ~117Mhz 603e ?

OS4 works 'ok' on a BlizzardPPC or CyberstormPPC, did you have these systems ?
To really do something beyond the Shell and simple programm's you need horsepower, at the moment the Vampire fpga is not fast enough for that. Offcourse there are faster fpga's, at cost.




Last edited by bennymee on 21-Aug-2019 at 11:32 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
broadblues 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 13:37:54
#10 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4391
From: Portsmouth England

@ferrels

Quote:

It won't be long before someone has an FPGA system booting OS4.


Perhaps but whereas Vampire is an upgrade to existing 68k hardware, these woud be downgrade performance wise, and what about access to Radeon HD/RX graphics in such a context?

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 15:19:56
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1371
From: N-Space

@ferrels

There are other possibilities. If the embedded POWER market revives a little (OK, a lot), someone might create a POWER-based single board computer (a "POWER Pi") which OS4 could be ported to. Alternatively, there may be more POWER-based Linux desktops forthcoming, which OS4 could be ported to. Or there may be a new CPU forthcoming that A-Eon could use in a new system. Of course Hyperion would have to hire a programmer to make any of theses outcomes happen.

If any of these alternatives (FPGA, SoC, or desktop) become viable, that would be the one to jump on.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Lou 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 16:12:57
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3961
From: Rhode Island

Now that Nintendo no longs uses PPC-based systems, I give ZERO F's about PPC ... well except for emulation ... and for that I have http://cemu.info

Henceforth - all hail the almighty ARM!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Samurai_Crow 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 17:08:04
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2128
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

Re:speed vs. Vampire
One of the reasons the Vampire performs as well as it does is that the 080 core uses its code cache more efficiently than a 603e. If you could shoehorn a PPC core into a Cyclone class FPGA (big if), you could look forward to performance 30% slower than an Apollo 68080 of the same clock speed. It would be stuck at that clock speed too.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
K-L 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 17:23:04
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1310
From: Oullins, France

@Lou

Quote:
Henceforth - all hail the almighty ARM!


Well... almighty...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rome-power9-arm&num=1

_________________
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
Webmaster of Amiga-NG.org (French)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Lou 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 17:31:04
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3961
From: Rhode Island

@K-L

Quote:

K-L wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Henceforth - all hail the almighty ARM!


Well... almighty...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=rome-power9-arm&num=1

Ha! There's an ARM cpu in everyone's hand. When have you seen a portable XEON or EPYC or Power9 cpu?

For that same reason, my lawnmower is a small displacement 2 stroke but my truck is not...and last time I checked - my truck cannot cut grass.

Last edited by Lou on 21-Aug-2019 at 05:33 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ferrels 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 18:07:42
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

@broadblues

Quote:
Perhaps but whereas Vampire is an upgrade to existing 68k hardware, these woud be downgrade performance wise, and what about access to Radeon HD/RX graphics in such a context?


The Tabor is a downgrade too and you can't even get your hands on one and people are drooling on themselves as they wait for its release. It's vaporware and will probably never be available, so hold your breath and keep waiting for it. Xilinx boards are available now as is a PPC core to run on it. Don't forget that Amigas are a hobby and they haven't made sense financially nor technologically for years. Running OS4 as your primary OS makes no sense either when there are better options out there, yet die hard Amigans continue to support the OS and wait for ever scarcer hardware to materialize. This same situation is what has made the Vampire so popular. it makes no sense either from a financial nor technical perspective when one can buy a $40 SBC that will run circles around a Vampire, supports several operating systems, has a GPU that supports 2D/3D acceleration and has a software base that dwarfs both the PPC and 68K software base. If it had to make sense, these forums would have closed long ago.

Last edited by ferrels on 21-Aug-2019 at 06:33 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 19:17:34
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1371
From: N-Space

@Lou

Quote:
Henceforth - all hail the almighty ARM!

I shall withhold my praise.

I like ARM in the Rpi, simply because it's so cheap, but POWER now has the advantage of being open source, whereas ARM is not.

Last edited by bison on 21-Aug-2019 at 07:18 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 19:27:31
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1371
From: N-Space

@ferrels

Quote:
It's vaporware and will probably never be available, so hold your breath and keep waiting for it.

Anyone holding their breathe for Tabor is already quite blue.

It's been displayed multiple times at shows, and there are beta testers, so a few of them do exist in some form. We've seen Tabor, but as far as I can tell, on one has ever heard Tabor. My guess is that the sound driver is still not working. I wonder if anyone is working on it?

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Zylesea 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 19:39:00
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2132
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@ferrels

Why not just support ppc macs before dreaming of fpga ppcs...

Then again, the ppc macs are aging now, ten years ago it would have made way more sense..

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ferrels 
Re: PPC Instruction Set Now Open Source
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 21:19:30
#20 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 824
From: Arizona

@Zylesea

Quote:
Why not just support ppc macs before dreaming of fpga ppcs... Then again, the ppc macs are aging now, ten years ago it would have made way more sense..


Why not just support Classic 68K Amigas instead of dreaming of FPGA Amigas such as the Mist, Action Replay, or the Vampire? And I don't know of any Macs that run OS4.

As for aging, even the X1000 is 8 years old now and the Tabor is nowhere in sight. It was promised over 3 years ago. It's difficult and expensive to get your hands on an X1000/X5000 and the price is absolutely ridiculous. And 10 years ago FPGA's weren't fast enough nor advanced enough to support a PPC softcore, Now they are.

Last edited by ferrels on 21-Aug-2019 at 09:20 PM.
Last edited by ferrels on 21-Aug-2019 at 09:20 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle