It's amazing how religious fundies (taliban, various sects of islam, etc..) and atheist fundies ("political" unions, commies, fascists, etc...) are so alike.

When I read this thread I was automatically reminded of the open source fanatics: the IT industry's fundies.

All 3 "kind" of fundies hate Bush. In the end, maybe Bush isn't that bad.

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- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

@Samurai_Crow

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The reason they SHOULD have done it is because of the fact that the Ottoman Turks conquered Constatinople

Ehm, as a matter of fact, one of the major reasons for which Constantinople got conquered was the fact that the crusaders conquered it first, weakening it very seriously. Not only did they not help stop it, they helped it happen.

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@Samurai_Crow

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Now the supply is running out and we HAVE to go with coal just to maintain our current usage.

Coal is greatly polluting and as I showed we've polluted the MN environment such that our poorer people lose as they now have to devote more monetary resources for food or get mercury posioning. Related to this is a decrease of tourism which is mainly for the forests/streams/lakes that we have. The electricity is cheap from coal if you, as Bush as done, disregard the side effects. The cost of a new coal plant for 15 years and wind generator for 15 years produces about the same $/kW cost and has the side effect of not producing a degradation of national resources. MN has lots of wind especially the more southeast you go in the state.

@ronaldst

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All 3 "kind" of fundies hate Bush. In the end, maybe Bush isn't that bad

In the 2000 campaign Bush stated he was a uniter not a divider. We now know what he meant.

@BrianK

Elections speeches are like Miss Universe Pagents speeches. Except for the bikinis.

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- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

@BrianK

And you forget, Cooperation was part of the surrender agreement. The gulf war started with Bush Sr. No cooperation is what forced the issue of inspectors being pulled out (how many years was that ). Sadam had councel members in his pocket so he thought he didn't have to cooperate. Wonder what happened?

Gulf war 1 and 2 are infact the same war! Gulf war 1 never ended, the Ousting Sadam part just got put aside to allow some form of peace and negotiation to take presidence (UN stupidity again) instead of flatening Bagdad and ousting Sadam (A mistake in my opinion but I wasn't in charge). If the war had truely ended there wouldn't have been a need for an embargo.

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@wolfe

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wolfe wrote: @BrianK And you forget, Cooperation was part of the surrender agreement. The gulf war started with Bush Sr. No cooperation is what forced the issue of inspectors being pulled out (how many years was that ). Sadam had councel members in his pocket so he thought he didn't have to cooperate. Wonder what happened? Gulf war 1 and 2 are infact the same war! Gulf war 1 never ended, the Ousting Sadam part just got put aside to allow some form of peace and negotiation to take presidence (UN stupidity again) instead of flatening Bagdad and ousting Sadam (A mistake in my opinion but I wasn't in charge). If the war had truely ended there wouldn't have been a need for an embargo.

True, not to mention it was an Unconditional Surrender, and he surrendered to the US, not the UN.

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@wolfe

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No cooperation is what forced the issue of inspectors being pulled out (how many years was that

While no cooperation was an issue of various inspections it was not an issue in the last inspection prior to the pull out and hard to ascertain completely because Bush failed to let the inspectors complete their job. Again no UN resolution stated a country could bomb Iraq if inspections failed. Also, there's no reason this had to be done. The US policy of containment appeared to have been working as it did for years on the Soviets, North Korea, and Cuba why not Iraq? Iraq had posed no threat to the US and took no direct actions against their neighbors.

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Gulf war 1 and 2 are infact the same war

Yet the current Bush administration failed to mention this to the US or UN. Instead they issues statements about non-existent WMD's being the reason. Looking at the age of the WMD's the US & Britian sold to Iraq it's likely they are unusable due to their age.

@AMiGR

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AMiGR wrote: @Samurai_Crow Quote: The reason they SHOULD have done it is because of the fact that the Ottoman Turks conquered Constatinople Ehm, as a matter of fact, one of the major reasons for which Constantinople got conquered was the fact that the crusaders conquered it first, weakening it very seriously. Not only did they not help stop it, they helped it happen.

Actually, while under siege by the Turks, Constatinople sent for reinforcements and the French sent some. After a while the people of Constantinople couldn't stand the relatively uncultured French so they surrendered to the more culturally aware Turks. So much for devotion to God or any other honorable reason to stand together.

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by BrianK on 21-Mar-2006 4:01:41 @Samurai_Crow Quote: Now the supply is running out and we HAVE to go with coal just to maintain our current usage. Coal is greatly polluting and as I showed we've polluted the MN environment such that our poorer people lose as they now have to devote more monetary resources for food or get mercury posioning. Related to this is a decrease of tourism which is mainly for the forests/streams/lakes that we have. The electricity is cheap from coal if you, as Bush as done, disregard the side effects. The cost of a new coal plant for 15 years and wind generator for 15 years produces about the same $/kW cost and…

Coal's environmental impact is significant, affecting health costs for poorer communities due to pollution and mercury contamination from coal plants that have already degraded Minnesota’s natural resources such as its lakes, streams, and forests. This has also led to a decline in tourism which was primarily attracted by these pristine environments. While cheap electricity can be obtained through continued reliance on coal despite the ignored side effects – similar costs are projected over 15 years between building new coal plants or wind generators, but with added benefits of not further degrading national resources and abundant potential for wind energy in Minnesota's southeast region.

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by T_Bone on 18-Mar-2006 4:22:31 @BrianK Quote: BrianK wrote: @T_Bone Quote: T_Bone wrote: heh, I voted for him, there was nobody else to vote for. You're right assuming the voters like -- increased government funding for Fundamentalist Conservative Churches, continuing the unworkable trickle down economics, a stagnet economy where jobs created per month are just under # of college graduates per month, the largest US debt ever, the largest US debt to GDP ratio in 50 years, illegal wiretapping, reductions of government environmental protections, reduction of negotiating power and respect in the world for the USA, increased job…

It seems you are expressing dissatisfaction with both candidates and their policies during an election period where neither candidate offered clear alternatives to your concerns about government spending on religious institutions, economic strategies, environmental protection, international relations, public safety, scientific integrity, and cronyism.

Your preference for a "true Conservative" suggests you are seeking someone with more traditional conservative values that align closely with yours. It's important to engage in political discussions constructively while respecting differing opinions during election periods.

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by BrianK on 21-Mar-2006 15:04:46 @wolfe Quote: No cooperation is what forced the issue of inspectors being pulled out (how many years was that While no cooperation was an issue of various inspections it was not an issue in the last inspection prior to the pull out and hard to ascertain completely because Bush failed to let the inspectors complete their job. Again no UN resolution stated a country could bomb Iraq if inspections failed. Also, there's no reason this had to be done. The US policy of containment appeared to have been working as it did for years on the Soviets, North Korea, and Cuba why not Iraq? Iraq had posed no…

@BrianK, you raise valid points regarding cooperation and UN resolutions in relation to inspections before pulling out inspectors from Iraq. Additionally, your comparison of the Gulf wars highlighting potential misinformation by current administrations is thought-provoking. It's important for historical accuracy when discussing such matters.