@m3x

It's a good price.

_________________
retired

@m3x

that's 522Euros in spain... it's not "low entry" IMHO. For that price you could buy complete Mac Minis with case, G4/1.4, hard disk, dvd, OSX

You have to add case, hard disk, dvd, psu... so you'll end up with an "entry machine" that costs more than a psx3 but only has a fraction of its capabilities.

Good luck

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@m3x

Quote:

Target price for the 667 Mhz, 256Mb ram including OS4 is Euro 450 + local taxes.

Is that for the "developer-version" (January) or "end-consumer" version (April?)?
For what price do you intend to sell Samantha without OS4 (for the Linux-market), i.e. what costs for OS4 are included in the calculation?

@hatschi

The target price is for the "end-consumer" version.

About the "developer-version" we're planning to release a number of free boards to interested developers.
More info on how to apply for a free board will be released in the next weeks.

Sam440EP is more a plattform then a single motherboard, it will be available in various versions.

Right now it's possible to choose:

- 3 different cpu frequency (more when AMCC will release higher frequency models),
- 2 gfx chips (M6 and M9),
- 2 ram configurations (256Mb and 512Mb),
- 4 different sized FPGAs,
- various optional peripherials (CCTalk, Disk On Chip, etc...)

More, it's possible to license a sub set of Sam440EP, for example, a customer doesn't need gfx and sound, we can design a smaller, and thus a cheaper motherboard.

_________________
Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@m3x

Thanks for the info. I think it's a good idea to offer a number of different configurations and price categories.
Can you clarify on the estimated target price of a system (667 Mhz, 256Mb ram including + local taxes) without OS4? As I understood, you also intend to target the board at other markets than OS4 (mainly Linux I suppose).

Last edited by hatschi on 31-Oct-2006 at 09:47 AM.

@m3x

I must ask a question (if info is available about this I must have missed it) - have you secured a license for OS4? As in a *done and closed deal*? That is, do you have *real contracts*, *actually signed* - today - with both AmigaInc and Hyperion regarding OS4 on Samantha?

@Crumb

Quote:

Sorry, but according to the board developers the price will be around 400Euros without VAT and without OS4. If you add a 16% of VAT the board would cost around 464Euros. If you add 120Euros (as you claim that OS4 costs 120Euros)... the board+OS4 would cost 464+120=584Euros. Clearer now?

Oh yes, much clearer...

Quote:

PSX3, PowerMacs, Pegasos2, Efika...

Well, Efika is not fast, Pegasos2 is discontinued, so is PowerMacs (you really think an OS can be shipped/marketed with 2nd hand hardware?) so that leaves only the PS3 which I agree would be great to have OS4 on when it comes out, and it seems that both Amiga Inc. and Hyperion would like to see that happen.

Quote:

If you knew the limitations of amigaos you wouldn't try to compare it with QNX in the embedded market and you wouldn't try to sell me OS4 as a windows substitute.

Guess what, I know the limitations of AmigaOS very well and if you actually read what I wrote you will see that I have stated several times that OS4 is not an embedded OS, but pointed out a few things where it actually performs better than some other embedded OS. I never said it was more suitable for the embedded market.

Quote:

Do you think that OS4 is so good that people would pay 500Euros for it?

I think Samantha will be a success, yes. It won't sell 1 million pieces, after all we hardly have any software yet for OS4. But it will be a big step forward.

@umisef

Quote:

Do you really not see that the way they pass messages is far from the only (or even the most important) difference between CMX and embedded linux?

Did I say it was the only difference?

Quote:

By your logic, the CMX-like QNX (both are RTOS) should be much more efficient than the linux-like OS4 (both are non-RTOS).

Actually QNX is the linux-like OS (unix core with a GUI pulled on top of it), while OS4 is not :)

@hatschi

The price for such a sistem without OS4 is max Euro 350, at the actual estimated production volume, Euro/USD exchange rate, and DDR ram price.

Linux and Amiga market are different, there are different needs, and therefore they need different configurations.

_________________
Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@Crumb

Quote:

You must have your WinXP badly configured because a fresh install of WinXP won't eat never 256MB

You are right, and it could stay like this if you never switch on your computer on you never install any application on your system... Fact is that when you have used your system for about a certain period of time your Windows installation is bloated by many things (huge size of the Registry is one example) and you ends up with tons of uneeded stuffs being installed and launched at start time just because you want to use this or that and the programmers decided that in order to do that you should have 10 services running at any times...

Of course I don't even speak of all those auto update apps that all launch at startup : symantec liveUpdate, Adobde update, Java update, Windows Update, etc.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@Crumb

Quote:

Will it matter how efficient it is when it hangs?

I worked for a company where they installed Amiga-based interactive systems into 5-star hotels. The system was based on a rack of A1200 motherboards, I was responsible for the software. We never had reports of machines hanging. It was a cool 020 CPU, no fans, no heat, extremely reliable, and affordable solution. The fact that the OS had no memory protection did not make it hang. At work we develop telecommunication devices, office phones and accessories, etc. We usually use low-cost CPUs with OS'es without memory protection (the CPUs don't even have MMU), and our devices don't hang either, perfectly reliable.

Quote:

OS4 can't guarantee it's real time. In contrast QNX is sold as real time OS.

Being sold as a realtime OS does not mean it's more real time than OS4. Embedded Linux also claims to be realtime enough to be suitable for embedded :)

Quote:

Quote: But if the OS4 route would be cheaper Since OS4 only runs on PPC I would find that hard to believe. I'm sure OS4 doesn't run on 10MHz 16bit CPUs.

The question was how would I choose if I was to do a project on some PowerPC hardware.

@m3x

>>Right now it's possible to choose:

- 3 different cpu frequency (more when AMCC will release higher frequency models),
- 2 gfx chips (M6 and M9),
- 2 ram configurations (256Mb and 512Mb),


I must ask:

What's the highest (top of the range) configuration?

1) CPU and clock speed (1GHz?)
2) M9 is the fastest I presume...
3) Max ram including expansion slot used?

Thanks

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@abalaban

That's true for wxp.

my w2k install is >2 years old and has yet to start slowing down.

I've kept meticulous care of it, running regcleaners every once in a while.

plus, there is much less hassle to update w2k.

Oh btw, buying "wxp professional" off the shelf will set you back:

497.223834 U.S. dollar (3600 SEK)

edit: typo. (proofreading is for ####s )

Last edited by Insanity on 31-Oct-2006 at 10:23 AM.

_________________
Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.

If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
/Ins

@abalaban

The user startup can become filled with rubbish too. Simply use MSConfig to change the programs that are started up on boot, and check out in the registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE->Software->Microsoft->Windows->Run* (Everything that starts with "Run")

HKEY_CURRENT_USER->Software->Microsoft->Windows->Run* (Everything that starts with "Run")

You can even change permissions of these register sections to avoid programs to write rubbish there.

also you can check out the programs that start up in the start menu.


You can go to administrative tools and change the services that are started up automatically.

Disable the teletubbie-XP-theme that comes as default and use the classic style. Don't fill the desktop with tons of direct accesses. Disable the stupid fades of the menus and make them work instantly without delays.

Disable every option to show HTML in the directories. Don't show the bar that appears at the left with extra info.

Quote:

symantec liveUpdate, Adobde update, Java update, Windows Update

You can disable these updates to save up some ram.

Set a fixed-size swap file.

You could even change the desktop and use Litestep so you save some ram.

You could even use another task manager to kill all the tasks you want.

don't use Outlook and don't use internet explorer. Becky and Opera are nice replacements.

These are just common changes people do.

Just like you configure your AmigaOS you can tune up WinXP to be faster and lighter.


BTW: If you use WinXP users properly, with an administrator to install programs and just an user for normal use you'll have less problems

Last edited by Crumb on 31-Oct-2006 at 10:30 AM.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@COBRA

Quote:

The fact that the OS had no memory protection did not make it hang

But it's better to avoid that possibility using an OS that won't hang as easily.

Quote:

Being sold as a realtime OS does not mean it's more real time than OS4

News flash: Cobra says that QNX is not a real time OS!

Quote:

The question was how would I choose if I was to do a project on some PowerPC hardware.

The question is why would you force your customers to use PPC hardware when a 10Mhz cheaper cpu can do and is more easily replaceable.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote: @m3x I must ask a question (if info is available about this I must have missed it) - have you secured a license for OS4? As in a *done and closed deal*? That is, do you have *real contracts*, *actually signed* - today - with both AmigaInc and Hyperion regarding OS4 on Samantha?

Bump!

@Crumb

Quote:

But it's better to avoid that possibility using an OS that won't hang as easily.

It's a good thing to have for very complex systems, but badly designed/coded software can still go into a deadlock/whatever so a hardware watchdog is actually more helpful, so that if there's a fatal software error, it restarts the system.

Quote:

News flash: Cobra says that QNX is not a real time OS!

No I didn't please don't put words into other peoples' mouth. I do not have any figures on interrupt latency and other timing for OS4 and QNX, my point was that you should not decide which is more real time based on their marketing.

Quote:

The question is why would you force your customers to use PPC hardware when a 10Mhz cheaper cpu can do and is more easily replaceable.

Obviously I would not choose a PPC chip if a $3 10MHz 8/16bit CPU is good enough for what we're making, but in many cases it's not enough.

Last edited by COBRA on 31-Oct-2006 at 11:00 AM.

@takemehomegrandma

http://www.pianetaamiga.it/PianetaAmiga.mp3

_________________
retired

@takemehomegrandma

If you ask if today we've a signed contract, then the answer is no.
But if you ask if there will be a signed contract soon, then the answer could be different

_________________
Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@Crumb

Quote:

Simply use MSConfig to change the programs that are started up on boot, and check out in the registry

Yeah, thanks I know it, I was speaking of applications that *insist* on having a side application running in the background (Acrobat is one of them, Real player was another) and even if you disable the at startup, as soon as you had launched them one time all thoses background applications are here again even after you closed the main application.

Quote:

You can even change permissions of these register sections to avoid programs to write rubbish there.

Yes and thus you won't be able to install applications anymore...

Quote:

Disable the teletubbie-XP-theme that comes as default and use the classic style

Yes, was the first thing I did when I first started XP : I'm here to work, not to play toys with searching dogs and other bending trombone doing some tricks...

Quote:

Disable the [...] Disable the stupid [...] Disable every option [...] Don't show the [...] You can disable these updates to save up some ram. You could even change the desktop [...] so you save some ram. You could even use another task manager/quote] Yeah, finally disable Windows XP and start in DOS mode to have maximum ram available Or better completly uninstall Windows XP to some another OS. [quote]you can tune up WinXP to be faster and lighter.

yes and with this WinXP you are unable to do anything because you have disabled almost any service needed by the key features of WinXP... Why not just use Win95 instead, it really less ressources hungry and will really fly on our latest hardware (provided you can have the required drivers).

Quote:

You could even change the desktop and use Litestep so you save some ram. You could even use another task manager to kill all the tasks you want. don't use Outlook and don't use internet explorer. Becky and Opera are nice replacements. These are just common changes people do.

Yes this is what people do *at home*, but in an enterprise environment where you should be able to share your address book, your agenda, your emails, your desktop, you just can't afford that everyone installs a different (incompatible) mailer, browser, desktop etc. And also why use Windows if you have almost as much things to tweak in order to obtain a correct working OS than on Linux (except the fact that on Linux those "options" are not hidden and are documented) ?

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !