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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Now that OS 4 is final...
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keisangi 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 6:01:30
#101 ]
Member
Joined: 7-Jan-2007
Posts: 66
From: Tokyo

@Rogue , yabba and other

i think most of us appreciate very much your work here.
without you os4 wouldn't simply be here.

you know the usual suspects.. don't take them too seriously.
they're here only to critic and bad mouth.

even if i do think client's always right, client have to be respectful too.
speak in civilised manners.. Trying to imply disrespectfull things even with polite words is just lack of manners.

you know we love what you're doing here.
keep going ppl are following.

ibrowse 2.4 is great ..
os4 final rocks ..



Last edited by keisangi on 12-Jan-2007 at 06:03 AM.

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Bamiga2002 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 8:21:59
#102 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2006
Posts: 97
From: Finland

@Rogue
Hey-ow! Nice to hear OS4 coming to classics finally :D! Keep it going, I'll buy it instantly

Last edited by Bamiga2002 on 12-Jan-2007 at 08:22 AM.

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Dandy 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 8:32:30
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Hondo_DK

Quote:

Hondo_DK wrote:
@Hagbard_Celine/others

...
OS4 needs to be launched for all hw at the same time, to make as much impact as possible
...

O.K. - it's released for the A1 now - where is the classic version?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Dandy 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 9:23:21
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@SoundSquare

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:
@Hagbard_Celine

... for some old hardware that will probably break within the next 5 years ?


So it should be logical that there is absolutely no time to loose to release the classic version...

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

You got classic hardware, good for you.



Yes, indeed...


Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

But do you realise that your computer system is 10 years old (or more)



Which part of my computer system are you talking about?
The mainboard?
This one is about 14 years old now...

Or are you talking about the CberstormPPC?
I bought mine on the very first day they were available: on the Amiga fair here in Cologne in early November 1997 - so this one is 9 years and 2 months old now.

Or are you talking about my Mediator PCI busboard, which is just one year old?

Of course I realize that that my system is aging - but hey, it's an *real* Amiga!
It's the reason why we're here at all!

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

and that it should be in a museum



Why?
You and me are probably older than my Miggy - does anyone want to use our age to put one of us into a museum?


Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

or used by only a bunch of retro computing geeks ?



Errmmmm - I'm just one retro computing geek.
And I don't like the idea that "a bunch" could be using my Amiga either...

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

Why not turning the page and supporting any effort of building new, mordern hardware ?



Slowly, mate!
Just one step after the other!
Who told you that I would *NOT* support new HW, once it is available?

I just refuse to buy alpha- or beta-hardware and so to pay lots of money for just being a tester...

Testing is the business of the developers - I'm no developer - just a (potential) customer and so I'm going for final products.

People, please stop mixing this up all the time!

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

I know how most of you are enchained to your old miggies, i still own a few amigas myself, but i use them in a nostalgic way, as soon as i turn on my recent machines i realise that's when serious things begin.



Hey mate, these old maschines are my hobby!

New machines are not available yet - so what's wrong with using the old ones on an daily basis?

I even have an CBM 620 with all the periphals down in my cellar - and if the CBM 3040 dual floppy drive would not have stopped working years ago I would still fire it up sometimes to enjoy coding with CBM Basic 4.0!

Quote:

SoundSquare wrote:

Classic Amigas were fantastic machines, please help them to rest in peace.
I wish i could cure all Amiga mormons



I prefer to help using them on a regular basis - why do you want me to bury them?

Last edited by Dandy on 12-Jan-2007 at 11:15 AM.

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Dandy 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 9:41:00
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
@Dandy

The classic version just got a priority bump. Right now, the plan is to release it as soon as possible, *hopefully* within 1Q2007, although it will depend on a few factors naturally.


Good news - thanx for the update, Hans-Jörg!

And a good and happy new year, B.T.W. ...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Wol 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 9:42:26
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 979
From: UK.......Sol 3.

@ Hyperion


I don't post often in these Yawn Yawn Bla Bla threads, but
please keep up the good work, it's apprieciated.

I don't have an A1, I have a fully loaded A4000, I just sit
quietly waiting for my Classic version of OS4.

I WILL purchase OS4 for Classic when it is released and
will purchase NEW hardware and OS4 when it becomes available
until then I play with OS3.9


Good luck

Wol...



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SoundSquare 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 9:46:18
#107 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2006
Posts: 253
From: Unknown


Quote:
The classic version just got a priority bump. Right now, the plan is to release it as soon as possible, *hopefully* within 1Q2007, although it will depend on a few factors naturally.


sounds good for classic, but it doesn't for some new hardware.
Ebay speculators aplausing.

so how much are you ready to pay for my 060/ppc card ?

auction starts at 500$

Last edited by SoundSquare on 12-Jan-2007 at 09:48 AM.

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Dandy 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 10:41:46
#108 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@amipal

Quote:

amipal wrote:
@falemagn

...
Please name me one Amiga product that's arrived on time as announced.
...

OS 3.5, IIRC...

As far as I remember I was really surprised when OS 3.9 came out already in December 1999 - I didn't expect it before mid of 2000...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Benji 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 11:00:20
#109 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2003
Posts: 573
From: Cheltenham or London, UK

@umisef

Whilst you are eloquently making some very valid points I think you are being overly critical.

If you go back to when OS4 was originally meant to launch and compare what was already around (and more significantly what was on the spec list for OS4 - essentially a port of 3.9 to a PPC only system, with a few tweaks) then the hobby/commercial arguement was just as valid, and probably just as widely accepted as it is now.

Considering the extra work that appears to have been done it has probably extended the scope to which OS4 could now be applied - and has certainly made it a much better product than anyone anticipated.

Launching in 2001 was never going to make it a "raging commercial success". Ideally yes, it would have been better to launch to a bigger "hobby" market then, but plans change and projects change.

Its very easy to imagine everything perfect and going to plan. You probably dont realise how lucky (besides talented) you are.

Here is an idea - want to help make OS4 even better? Want to improve the OS4 driver situation?

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Rogue 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 11:48:38
#110 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@umisef

Quote:
No, you have five pages of people debating whether Hyperion releasing OS4 for the classics should be viewed as a generous gift worthy of many we-are-not-worthy prostrations, or whether Hyperion should be held to the same standards as any other company trying to sell something


No, actually not. I have merely answered a question, only to be bombarded with crap. It was a very simple question, with a very simple answer, which got attacked immediately with totally unrelated criticism. I am not even saying whether or not that criticism was justified or not; but certainly, the *form* in which it was presented wasn't.

Quote:
Thus, nice as OS4.0, the final update, may be, even for the thousand lucky users, further development of it is crucial for it to stay a viable choice for their computing needs.


Actually, I haven't really seen anything in that line. All I saw was people complaining about the lack of a classic version.

Quote:
I suspect you could be as rude (or poignant, or "to the point", or honest, or whatever you want to call it) as you wanted to be, and nobody would care, if OS4 was a thriving, healthy product with regular releases, a well-defined development path, and a history of meeting (at least approximately) the announced timelines.


I find that mildly funny from someone who was found to have a product in violation with license agreements which had to be pulled off the market. You, above all others, should know that factors outside your own reach will invariably affect your project.

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Rogue 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 11:50:17
#111 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@Rit

Quote:
My advice would be to stay away from these forums, they are full of so many idiots. They don't, in any way, represent the community that i used to know from back in the good old Amiga days. Enough said.


Question: Abandon those that have genuine questions because of those that throw dirt at you? I was faced with that question many times. My problem is that I *want* to answer genuine questions.

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Rogue 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 11:55:31
#112 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@elatour

Quote:
In the 2 years that I have been on this site, I have yet to see anyone dare to call you an idiot. In any case, stating something like this about you would say more about their level of intelligence than yours.


Most of them are either intelligent enough to do that covertly, or get moderated.

Quote:
If a client were to call me an idiot because they are not getting what they want from me, I would say something like: "I'm sorry you feel that way, but unfortunately, I'm afraid that I cannot/it is not possible to accomodate your requirements, etc." In cases of persistent abuse and where any possible compromise or resolution has not been possible, then once you have stated your case - this only needs to be done once - then you simply ignore them. It's that simple.


*shrugs* I am a programmer. I don't claim to be proficient in customer service. Personally, I think that most programmers are smart enough to stay away from that, unfortunately I have exposed myself too much so I am the target for this. Like I said in another posting, the question I keep asking myself is, should I just stay away (which I tried several times), but then, I want to help... but it gets increasingly difficult.

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hotrod 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 12:24:10
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2986
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Rogue

I'm sure that most people appreciate the work that you're doing. I really do that and what impress me most is that you're still around after all the c**p that you've been reading.

It seems like some people think that you're still Commodore with lots of money taking things slow and easy just to anoy as many as possible... that's the only reason that I can think of. Because the situation has been explained so many times over the years for nothing it seems.

Maybe a link should be at the front page of aw.net with the title "this is why it takes time to bring out AOS 4 and new hardware".

What's even weirder is that it's taken a long time for M$ to bring out Vista, for Nintendo to bring out Wii, for Sony to bring PS 3 etc... and I don't see anyone complain about that. Probably because they don't got someone to treat as dirt.....

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Dandy 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 12:49:57
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote:
And now, look at this.

Someone asks a simple question, I give a simple answer, and there you have five pages of postings already with me trying to justify myself.
...


Two days I didn't have the time to watch this thread and I must say that I was nearly overwhelmed that my simple question already got six (!) pages of answers!

I was exhilarated when I read your answer to my question.

But even I really do not understand why some are attacking you so hard.

I mean - we two as well had our misunderstandings and discussions in the past.
You sometimes reacted rather - hmmm, lets say "thin-skinned" - when I asked some critical questions, sometimes you instantly jumped on me and so we started to exchange "civilities".

But I account that to the pressure you were under because of making OS 4 final and to the pressure I was under because of all this waiting and all those "broken promises" (generally spoken).

But for me this has never been a reason to loose my respect for your efforts on OS4.

Currently my concern is to what extent will the PCI cards in my Mediator PCI busboard work with OS4, if at all?

As I wrote in annother thread (I still have to check the answers there), I'd like to know if I have to re-install my CyberVisionPPC or if the Voodoo4 in my Mediator will do and if and to what extent my NIC, my Terratec 512i digital soundcard and my Spider2 USB 2.0 highspeed card will work with OS4.

Will the compatibility with OS4 possibly improve, if a SharkPPC is fitted to the Mediator (maybe I should better direct this question(s) to Elbox, but I would also like to hear your opinion on that)?

And while we're at it - in the past the situation was that Elbox stated they need OS4 to release the SharkPPC and Hyperion said they need a SharkPPC to adapt OS4 to it.
For me as a user this was just confusing and seemed to indicate that there are some tensions between Hyperion and Elbox (but this is my pure speculation).

But perhaps you are in the position to bring some light into the dark?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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neonlite 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 12:54:22
#115 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2004
Posts: 100
From: Croatia

@Dandy

the world is full of Ego-maniacs i'm affraid,stubborn egomaniacs....

and that is what Rogue has to cope with here

fortunatelly he is a kind of an egomaniac himself so he doesn't give up that easily

keep up the good work Rogue and Hyperion,I can assure you that you'll be well rewarded in the end

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amipal 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 14:02:21
#116 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1905
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@Dandy

Quote:
OS 3.5, IIRC...

As far as I remember I was really surprised when OS 3.9 came out already in December 1999 - I didn't expect it before mid of 2000...

Over seven years ago, the market was a lot larger then. IIRC, the had access to the source of AmigaOS as well, something that the OS4 team didn't.

Last edited by amipal on 12-Jan-2007 at 02:06 PM.

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Kronos 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 14:18:41
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2284
From: Unknown

@amipal

Äh, yes..... and where is the relevance ??

Market-size was allready known to be rapidly shrinking in 2001.

Realizing that the Escena-board won't come was a no-brainer in late 2001.

That offcourse meant an OS4 as orginally planned wasn't an option.

A little bit of research should have been enough to find out that WarpUP wasn't even suitable as base for the orginally planned "OS3.9-PPC", let alone a real OS4.

But than, even all that isn't releant as we heard "real soon now" type of messages long after they acknowleded the above.

Actually the smaller the market the easier it is NOT to announce anything that isn't either ready or where your damn sure your on schedule.

Btw. that goes for all HW and SW projects, Amiga, Amigaoid or other.

_________________
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- blame Canada

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Rit 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 14:24:01
#118 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2005
Posts: 138
From: Unknown

@Rogue

Yeah, i know what you mean... It's a tough call..

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Fab 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 14:39:26
#119 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@keisangi

Edit: removed - baiting a member in this manner can be offensive. Consider this a first warning.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 12-Jan-2007 at 06:48 PM.

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Condor 
Re: Now that OS 4 is final...
Posted on 12-Jan-2007 14:40:07
#120 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Feb-2004
Posts: 191
From: Zagreb, Croatia

@Rogue

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!

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