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PosterThread
adiaux 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 12:20:18
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@The_Editor

Quote:
I was led to believe Amiga Inc was a private company ?


Why shouldn't owners of unlisted companies be able to sell shares to others if they want to?

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adiaux 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 12:34:16
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@asian

Quote:
How come the same company/IP worth US$ 90 million today?


It isn't. This only proves that there are morons everywhere that can be fooled into anything. Maybe they didn't know that the dot-com bubble has already burst, and that there is no point in paying overprice for companies whose entire substance consists of a wet dream?

$1 million for the whole Amiga Inc would probably be a severe overprice, especially since you would most certainly inherit all kinds of outstanding debts and court rulings against the company. And where is the value?

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The_Editor 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 13:06:50
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@takemehomegrandma

So I guess those morons have priced a few suitors out of the running ?

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-Sam- 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 13:07:29
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3035
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@asian

Quote:
Is this related to Pentti Kouri, the chairman of Amiga Inc?


Does that mean that the share sale is in fact nothing more than Mr Kouri moving some money from one account to another one at the same time making AInc. look like it is worth far more than it actually is?

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opi 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 13:15:49
#25 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Thread

I should't do this, but, LOL WTF?! :D

Prokom is well know in Poland. From both sides: being rich company and as a producer of superbly b0rken software for one of our gov. institution. FOSS community is fighting in the court to have access to the protocol because "Płatnik" is Windows only and it was paid by tax money.

I don't know why they got Amiga, Inc shares -- but I would say it has to have second bottom. I'll try to contact someone from Prokom and will write you back.

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Mark 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 14:03:32
#26 ]
Team Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 1457
From: UK

@-Sam-

That sounds about right, I am a director of my company (as is my wife) and we have 1 share each (LOL), but there is nothing stopping us issuing loads of shares and selling them (or a portion of them) to raise some capital..

mark

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Yabba 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 15:43:57
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jan-2004
Posts: 134
From: Unknown

@madmalkav

Thats not how the stock market work. Lets say I'd make a bid for 2% of all the shares in a public company. Now assume that I make another bid for 80% of the stocks. The prices I would see would not even be close to each other simply because the supply and demand is different in the two cases. Similarly, if I invest 2% in a private company I may be able to negotiate a certain price. But if I were to invest 20% I would likely try to get a lower price since I am adding more cash. (Thats my perspective as a buyer of course) Thats why you often try to keep the investments smaller since that would make it possible to sell smaller pieces of the company at a higher price. But with a public traded company, there are many sellers to convince to sell and that would raise the price instead. But otoh, that wouldn't be an investment in the company, that would just get a certain ownership. The company's cash flow wouldn't be affected so the two cases are not really related.
But both of them tell you that price is not something you can extrapolate very far.

rgds,
Stefan

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logicalheart 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 15:44:42
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Dec-2003
Posts: 696
From: Sandy, Utah. USA

Without more information, most of the comments here are speculation.

We do not know the terms of the agreement.
We do not know if the actions in the agreement were executed, or if any money was paid.

Also, does anyone know if Amiga Inc. is still a subsidiary of ITEC LLC?

- Lars

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billt 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 16:34:30
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@asian

Quote:
How come the same company/IP worth US$ 90 million today?


I highly doubt it is. It's probably just a way of accounting for things. They supposedly talked someone into investing $2M, and one of the required terms was some small percent ownership in addition to whatever else was part of this supposed transaction. How do you take care of this accounting? Even though you're not a public stock, you can say there's X number of shares in existence, and 2.3% of X now belong to this investor. That doesn't rally mean that 100% of X shares are worth the same per-share price, unless you can find someone to pay that.

If you want to sell your car, and you say that it's worth $20000, but you can't find a buyer for that price, is it really worth $20000? Things are only worth what someone is willing to actually pay, and I just can't picture anyone paying $90M for 100% of Amiga Inc. today. Maybe someone is that crazy, but I'd be very suprised.

If you were a very rich crazy guy, how much would you pay? We the "Red Trolls" like me probably value it somewhat higher than an objective bystander would because we're biased and all that, but it's hard to say how much that bias increases our bid compared to an objective bid. It's likely worth less than what we would be willing to pay if we were rich.

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Darth_X 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 16:59:12
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

@billt

Quote:
I highly doubt it is.


But Amigainc certainly are worth more and have more than $2 million invested in them.

Quote:
If you were a very rich crazy guy, how much would you pay? We the "Red Trolls" like me probably value it somewhat higher than an objective bystander would because we're biased and all that, but it's hard to say how much that bias increases our bid compared to an objective bid. It's likely worth less than what we would be willing to pay if we were rich.


So what you are saying is that there are a lot of rich red trolls

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The_Editor 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:12:19
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Darth_X

We Wish !!

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hatschi 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:18:01
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Darth_X

Quote:
So what you are saying is that there are a lot of rich red trolls


At least they could afford to buy AmigaOnes, which weren't exactly cheap.
"Blue trolls" in contrast have to stick with cheap underperforming low-end hardware targeted for the 3rd world.

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Plaz 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:27:02
#33 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

Quote:
Make that "almost 90 million bucks".


Actually this would make some sence in my imaginary version of "the truth". Selling a small percentage of stock at high cost would make some business sence.

First you raise come cash for operations.
The cost per share may be high, but buying a small quantity doesn't break the bank.
Now on paper you can show a company potentionally worth $90 million even though other shares are yet unsold.
This would scare off potential hostile take over bids and make you look much better on investment presentations.

Maybe Hyperion sees these numbers too, and says 'no way' to a tiny buy back deal.
Time to bring in the lawyers.......

Will Amiga threads be more or less entertaining when the real truth comes out?

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 07-Feb-2007 at 05:27 PM.

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Jorge 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:34:21
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Posts: 657
From: Scottsdale, AZ

@billt

Quote:
I highly doubt it is. It's probably just a way of accounting for things.


Hm, well, everybody can pay what ever they think something is worth. However, I would highly doubt if in the corporate world this is decided on the (what we'd call) beer table.

Usually there are ways to evaluate a company thru e.g. revenue, profit and ebit reports. While this does not bind anyone to pay whatever amount of money based on the reports, it gives you a good overview. Even if the 800k shares for about $2MM doesn't sound too much for a big company to spend, nobody blows that money out of the window (except, they used it as a write off for a tax break).

Also, auditing the books is another way to determine a companies value. Whatever happened, I am pretty sure something like this must have gone on at the deal.

Last edited by Jorge on 07-Feb-2007 at 05:36 PM.
Last edited by Jorge on 07-Feb-2007 at 05:34 PM.

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hatschi 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:36:23
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Plaz

Quote:
Now on paper you can show a company potentionally worth $90 million even though other shares are yet unsold. This would scare off potential hostile take over bids and make you look much better on investment presentations.


As a not publicly traded company, they have no reason to "scare off potential hostile take over bids", because there can't be any hostile take-overs without their agreement.
Yet, there might be other reasons why they want to make themself appear bigger&better than they really are.
Btw, I posted the "90 million" only to correct the erroneous decimal place in yak's calculation, not because I estimate Amiga Inc. to be worth that much.

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Plaz 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 17:58:25
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1573
From: Atlanta

@hatschi

Quote:
As a not publicly traded company, they have no reason to "scare off potential hostile take over bids", because there can't be any hostile take-overs without their agreement.


Just because it's not publically traded doesn't mean that you don't have factions among the ownership. You may have partners that can be persuaded to sell their stake at the right price. Some thing similar happened in my grand-fathers small business many years ago.

I agree with you that my description and wording don't normally apply in a privately held company though. 'Hostile' in any case can all depend on your perspective and station in the deal.

Quote:
not because I estimate Amiga Inc. to be worth that much.


I noted that, but the math on paper does bear out that kind of number real or imaginary. Some investors may not be able to tell the difference.

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Hans 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 21:21:01
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@all

You've all missed the most important aspect of this investment information, what will the $2 million USD be spent on?

Hans

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Insanity 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 21:27:40
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2005
Posts: 405
From: Sweden

@Hans

p0rn?

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Hans 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 21:32:37
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@Insanity

$2 million USD worth? That would bring a new meaning to the word obsession!

Hans

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Troels 
Re: Prokom Software SA investments into Amigainc
Posted on 7-Feb-2007 21:34:53
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2005
From: Unknown

@Hans

Spend on.. have no idea, this all sounds surreal.

Amiga should have received $2 million but never was able to pay salary or honor the club membership discounts.

I think this deal must be made for tax reasons, moving money around for some reason.

It's all just speculation, we will probably never know as Amiga inc doesn't seem to care for this community anymore.

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