@BrandonLee

Emm, no. e.g. AmigaOS 4.0 lacks several middleware infrastructure.

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@Hammer

I don't even know what's middleware... ;)

But let me rephrase that: if we had a huge and up-to-date software base, people would actually think about changing.
Example: continuing using Word documents on AOS, browsing EVERY website, playing the latest hyped game, etc.

If it was a matter of choosing the fastest, most responsive OS, instead of the one that plays the most tricks.

PS:?yes, I know, the Windows package encompasses many bits and pieces that are needed for programs, that's why it's so big. :)

@Belxjander

Quote:

still find it utterly laughable that I can make a computer system with ALL the Vista Ultimate feature set I have seen within a budget of less than the total price of the Vista Ultimate OS package...

One of the things is us Amigans are into is the DIY marketplace. We have to be there's simply no way to run the Amiga today without the DIY stance. This is not the majority of the market. Grandma doesn't want to assemble hardware, install Linux, patch Linux, trim and recompile the kernel, and then assemble a DVR solution. Grandma, and the vast majority of the market, want to go to their local computer retailer and buy a complete solution.

Windows VISTA --- while easier to add stuff it's not the DIY solution where people can get their hands dirty that Linux or AmigaOS offer. But, again it's not meant to be. For us there's other OSes which we'll use or use in addition.

One sad thing is all that work you do on AmigaOS to be that DIY is fun but will in no way be something that'll be profitable. The Amiga market is too small to demand much in the way of IT resources. But, look at the mess and complexitities of Linux and Windows solutions. Surely more then enough to keep us IT professionals employed for years to come.

i just read that there will be a new window os coming in 2009, its called vienna...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070210/tc_infoworld/85937

is window vista the new window me?.... you can ask your self what is the point in upgrading to vista now...

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@d0c

Quote:

d0c wrote: i just read that there will be a new window os coming in 2009, its called vienna... http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070210/tc_infoworld/85937 is window vista the new window me?.... you can ask your self what is the point in upgrading to vista now...

Windows VISTA replaces XP which replaced ME.

Apple has a newer version of their OS every couple years if not every year. Linux is continually updated. Various other things in society are updated as frequently. So, saying no new system until 2010 (end 2009 is projected Vienna and they'll likely miss that date). Do you want to wait 3 years? Undoubtably not everyone does.

@DonnieA2

I was taught that big projects like an OS should be modular, thus making it flexible.
Whatever happened to the times that you could just download a whole new revision of DirectX and start using it on your current OS?

Sure it would be possible if M$ would put some effort into it, but on the other hand, Marketing will tell you that is not a smart move when you are trying to sell as much copies of Vista as possible.

Makes me remember the times of Windows 98 IE integration.

Again, "poor design".

I'm not saying that DirectX itself is poorly designed, just the decision you can't have DX10 on XP because it would be "too much" effort.

@jiyong

Quote:

I was taught that big projects like an OS should be modular, thus making it flexible. Whatever happened to the times that you could just download a whole new revision of DirectX and start using it on your current OS?

Great thought and VISTA pulls quite a bit out of the kernel making it more modular. Upgrades, such as sound drivers, which even in XP required a reboot can now be replaced without needing a reboot. This enhanced modularity should further reduce the chance of the BSOD.

New revision of Direct X is 10 and coming out later in the year. Microsoft is now at downloadability for Office and VISTA themselves. Surely Direct X 10 will be downloadable too.

@d0c

If Vista is anything like ME. Then count ME out.

The fee for software subscription is Microsoft's plan. Scary. When you buy an OS from MS (in the near future), you will be paying a subscription fee for upgrades.

I guess MS needs the $.

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@BrandonLee

Quote:

BrandonLee wrote: @TallAmigan The only thing Windows is clearly better than Amiga is the software base. If you could use all Windows software on AmigaOS4, people would see the light. ;)

Could you just imagine what the world would be like today if the number one OS was Amiga based? With all the great software that was a standard! If only Commodore could have seen what they really had for an operating system.

Yes, I wished that I could use some of the good Windoze software on the Amiga OS.

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@TallAmigan

Could you just imagine what the world would be like today if the number one OS was Amiga based? With all the great software that was a standard! If only Commodore could have seen what they really had for an operating system.

While it's certainly interesting to think about that possibility, I guess the AmigaOS would be nothing like it is today. Power corrupts and we'd probably have something like Windows... ;)

@BrandonLee

Quote:

BrandonLee wrote: @TallAmigan While it's certainly interesting to think about that possibility, I guess the AmigaOS would be nothing like it is today. Power corrupts and we'd probably have something like Windows... ;)

I would only hope that the Amiga OS wouldn't look like Windows.

Last edited by TallAmigan on 12-Feb-2007 at 06:29 PM.

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Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
-- Albert Einstein

@BrianK

Quote:

Windows VISTA replaces XP which replaced ME.

I believe he was referring to the fact that ME was billed as an update to 98, yet was a big waste of time in general, and you were better off sticking with 98.

ME was rushed and unstable, not to mention breaking compatibility with a heap of games at the time that relied on DOS working, which MS tried very hard to hide under ME.

By all accounts, even though Vista is meant to have been written from the ground up, it has been billed as only a marginal "update" over XP (which is much like the hyped up ME was over 98). As such, if you had 98, ME was a waste of your time and money, which seems to be the general consensus about XP owners upgrading to Vista.

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@TallAmigan

Quote:

If Vista is anything like ME. Then count ME out. The fee for software subscription is Microsoft's plan. Scary. When you buy an OS from MS (in the near future), you will be paying a subscription fee for upgrades.

Vista isn't like ME. It's much more stable and usable. It's the future direction where it was clear ME was the last hurrah for Win98. But like ME I think there's little reason to upgrade until you buy a new system. Once DirectX 10 and new softwares which use it are released then we'll see if there's a more compelling reason.

Subscription? Microsoft has subscriptions now. I've not heard that this will be mandatory anytime in the future. You got any legit links we can check?

On upgrade costs -- WinXP which I paid about $200 in 2001 with no upgrade fees. Compared to OSX which I bought in 2001 has had upgrade fees for every point version .1, .2, .3, .4, and the coming .5, so I've given Apple $550+ for in the same time. As people say Apple is Microsoft's Beta group, perhaps they're copying the Apple model of a yearly user poke for an OS upgrade.

@jiyong



Quote:

I'm not saying that DirectX itself is poorly designed, just the decision you can't have DX10 on XP because it would be "too much" effort.

I don't think it's a matter that you couldn't put DirectX 10 on XP, but what would it do for you? What's left to do with it? Really most of the additions are for new graphics architecture features of Vista, it's not like they added "Shader Model 4" or something..

The real change is they are now supporting the GPU on the desktop. That's what they signify. Quite a few older cards will do Aero glass and the 3d features. But I think the big difference that people can't see is they have now moved to a structured graphics system for graphics and animation that is scalable at different resolutions (DPI) and PPI (Pixels Per Inch)..

One of the first "longhorn" demos I saw was on a 200PPI LCD monitor. The screen scaled (in 3D) and I saw windows rescaling and shrinking that you could still read clearly after it was scaled down.. I think the difference we will be seeing in the near future will become really clear when you see high DPI LCD monitors come out and down in price.. The basic changes for future expansion is there..

The WPF 3d team also came out with tools to add 2d widget functionality to 3d objects, so I suspect the move to a more "3D" interface will start showing up in the near future. I have already seen user apps using real 3d functionality. I expect wpf 3d controls that replace winforms in the near future as well..

I want to see Amiga doing these kinds of things with OS 5 if it happens (fingers crossed)..

@BrianK

Quote:

Windows VISTA replaces XP which replaced ME.

Windows XP also replaced Windows 2000.

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@BrianK

Quote:

Compared to OSX which I bought in 2001 has had upgrade fees for every point version .1, .2, .3, .4, and the coming .5, so I've given Apple $550+ for in the same time.

But each new release of OSX 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 & 10.4) have been major OS updates of the like which Microsoft (with their multi billion dollar industry) have only managed every 4 or 5 years.... go figure!

I paid £90 to upgrade from Panther (10.3) to Tiger (10.4) which I thought was very reasonable price wise, Mac OSX does everything I need and more and works straight out of the box.... whearas Windows!

As ever it's about quality not quantity..... something Microsoft fail to deliver!

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@Hammer

Quote:

Windows XP also replaced Windows 2000.

Yeah, the new pile of sh*t is replacing the last pile of sh*t

Just like the film "Full Metal Jacket" like the drill seargent called one of the troopers "Pile" that is what I call most of Microsoft products.... billions of lemmings can't be wrong.... huh!

Last edited by sicky on 13-Feb-2007 at 11:12 AM.

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@Hammer

My response was in someone's question about ME. You are correct not only was ME replaced by XP but Win2K Pro was too. Not to confuse things for people Win2K Server was replaced by Win2K3 Server and that will be replaced later this year by 'Longhorn', which is currently in testing.

@sicky

Quote:

Compared to OSX which I bought in 2001 has had upgrade fees for every point version .1, .2, .3, .4, and the coming .5, so I've given Apple $550+ for in the same time.

But each new release of OSX 10.1, 10.2, 10.3 & 10.4) have been major OS updates of the like which Microsoft (with their multi billion dollar industry) have only managed every 4 or 5 years.... go figure! [/quote] Some have but some haven't. SP2 in XP added quite a few updates. Not as much as 10.4 or 10.2 but likely as much as 10.1 and 10.3. iLife is great. Unfortunately, I think if Microsoft did the same thing people would cry foul. There seems to be this duality where if Microsoft enhances or includes a software beyond the OS it's bad but if Apple does it, it's okay.

Quote:

I paid £90 to upgrade from Panther (10.3) to Tiger (10.4) which I thought was very reasonable price wise, Mac OSX does everything I need and more and works straight out of the box.... whearas Windows!

So, here's the thing people rip on Microsoft charging for software upgrades and imply it's going to be mandatory. But, if their model is changed to something more akin to Apple where the charged software upgrades offer more then patches but feature functionality enhancements why would people not embrace it? Besides their hate of Microsoft that is.

A horrible review from Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2007/0226/050.html

He seems to be describing what I thought of XP. There were improvements over Windows 2000, but I found it more intrusive and patronising than 2000. Added to that, only a culture change among Windows developers will change the user experience.

I imagine that hardware drivers and shareware will still insist on installing pointless system tray features, shabby icons, ugly and inefficient user interfaces, cumbersome Wizards, intrusive and CPU-choking "services"... Not that I'm biased.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 13-Feb-2007 at 12:55 PM.

@jiyong

64bit allows memory addressing greater than ~3GB. 64bit is now required for anyone that has drive spaces greater than 3TB or memory greater than 3GB. Most of these people are usually gamers or work with video or like me, download a lot of tv shows....

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