@jahc

Actually, I do think the bounty is unfair - but not just because of the fact that one is being raised for OS4. I think it's unethical to accept money for it - especially the amount that has been raised. I think some of that money should go to the other authors - the people who wrote the engine in the first place. I realise that WebKit/KHTML has sponsored developers from Apple and Nokia, but there are KDE developers who spent considerable time and effort writing a damned fine free piece of software who haven't been paid to write this engine.

@jahc

As far as I understand it you can live for 6 months on ¤3100 in Poland, will he really spend that much time on the OS4 port?

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Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

I hope OS4 will get all future versions of Sputnik also, because 3100 euro is a lot of cash. But i will donate to the bounty myself, cos we really need a CSS-capable browser.

Last edited by fryguy on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:06 PM.

@fryguy

Marcin seems like a nice guy and I'm sure that is his intentions.

"Since first non-beta release of Sputnik for AmigaOS4, all following non-beta versions for MorphOS should also be released for AmigaOS4 in 1-2 months with the same features and improvements as the MorphOS version has (it excludes features that are impossible to add because of external dependencies). It's my intention that MorphOS and AmigaOS4 versions of Sputnik have the same set of features."

The delay could be shorter, but remember he develops Sputnik on MorphOS.

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@Troels

Yep, he seems like a nice guy...

@jahc

Since he is interested on MorphOS and not on OS4 I understand him. Releasing an OS3/OS4 port will only slow down the development and he will have to concentrate in porting instead of adding new features.

If you think it's unfair, do not donate money.

I think it's fair since you'll be able to see that he is capable of doing something like that when he releases the final MOS version.

Anyway I think that the problem with this community is the strange native-mania that seems to force everyone to release native binaries for OS4/MOS instead of supporting everything releasing a normal OS3 binary (and maybe using optional plug-ins for some parts). Trance & Petunia are both very fast.

I can't see many reasons to use the specific OS4/MOS functions... that only causes additional work if you want to support all the community.

I doubt Reaction/MUI4 makes everything much more easy than MUI3.8...

I can understand that some programs use native code in critical parts (like a video player for example), but just as plug-ins. The 68k versions should be mandatory

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@Crumb

Quote:

I can't see many reasons to use the specific OS4/MOS functions...

I wouldn't say that was necessarily so; I've just converted all of my code to the new OS4 specific way of creating lists, opening message ports etc. etc.

For example, there are many new functions in DOS, like DeathMessages, which ease the creating of software as well as a lot of old functions like CreateNewProc which have been extended and now include new tags to give the programmer more control.

Yes, I can see a LOT of reasons why I should use OS4 specific functions. The reason why all my projects are OS4 only now.

In fact, Epistula has migrated so much towards OS4 now that porting to other systems will be extremely difficult, even to the extent where it would be quicker to write the program from scratch!

Last edited by Slash on 15-Feb-2007 at 12:47 PM.

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This fire is burnin' and it's out of control
It's not a problem you can stop, It's rock n' roll - GN'F'N'R

@jahc

Frankly saying, I don't get it. Marcik wants to create OS4 version of Sputnik. He wants to be paid for that. And you are saying it is not fair? He doesn't need to do it at all, does he? In that situation you would be still waiting for nowadays browser and even with all those superb features of AmigaOS 4.0 you couldn't even promote it to some new people interested in it because it lacks normal browser without which Internet life to those newbies would be unapproachable. Compare Marcik to the developer of Mozilla Team. Following your understanding you wouldn't donate them either because they do not want to create AmigaOS 4 port and only thing they want is to make money on poor Amigans. They don't care which OS they support. They want money. The same like Marcik does but he is one of us, no matter if he owns MorphOS (I guess it makes some people paranoic) or AmigaOS 4.0 he is still from here (no outsider). Hardware matters are obvious because in the initial phase of development he does not want to beg anybody to test his software. He needs to see software's behaviour on his own eyes and it makes development much more easier.

Others say that in case of failure of this bounty they want full refund instead of donating other projects. I can not understand why you don't say the same thing about AmiZilla project and donations made there. Money are kept in the socks, they do not give any interest and who knows maybe the massive sum could be already reached? Why you do not want a refund from that bounty which seems a bit naive? It is very FAIR that even when Marcik fails porting, your money will not be lost. I guess Troels will even consult with each of you (maybe in poll) which project should be donated.

Last edited by mailman on 15-Feb-2007 at 03:26 PM.

@mailman

I totally agree with you.

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Amiga_Os3-Os4-Mos User!!!

I'm not saying that it's unfair.. If someone has something to sell.. it's up to him to set the price.

But as far as I know, it's mainly the CSS capability that for instance Ibrowse lacks?
Why not a pretty big bounty for CSS support in Ibrowse?
Guess that would put som fire up the dev's ass? =P

@Cav

It's the whole rendering engine. At the moment, very few browsers can render the Acid2 CSS test and KHTML browsers were the first to do so, AFAIK, not even firefox does.

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Does Sputnik have a web site where we can learn about it? All google gives back are MorphOS and Amiga pages. I want to read about it from the original people, and I want to try it out on Linux or something to see if I think it's worth donating to. I appreciate any links...

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

Total Amiga 25 there was an interview with the guy. Wonder if you could get the TA guys to post it on the Total Amiga website ?

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@billt

Sputnik is the name of the MOS port of the KHTML Nokia WebCore engine.

Theres no other versions around.

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@Hans

Quote:

He's said that if the bounty isn't reached after 8 months, he'll either extend the deadline, or distribute the money amongst other projects to be chosen by Troels Ersking after consulting with us. That doesn't sound too bad.

I saw that. But if the Sputnik thing doesn't go, then I don't want other people choosing where my money goes. Maybe I won't like the particular project(s) that they choose to put any money toward. I wouldn't be happy with a bait&switch thing where I pay money for a web browser but instead get yet another text editor or something for my money. At least they tell us that possibility up front here. But after the past few preorder things I've paid into (iFusion for example), if I can't get what I want, or it turns out to be total crap compared to what was advertized and I really don't want the final product, I just don't want to be stuck paying for it anyway. I've been burned too many times, and I'm not interested in yet another iteration of that. I've got some money tied up into bounties that I'll probably never see again, and am not sure if I'll ever see the product either, and I'm not interested in doing any more of that myself.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@jahc

Quote:

The MorphOS bounty is only 2,048.00 USD at the momen

None knows how big that bounty is now (it wasn't updated for a very long time, i think it's more than a year now).

Some general comments:

1. If you feel like some part of the bounty needs to be more precise then gather yours ideas and send it to me (it's easier that way to me).
2. If you feel like the part about distributing money in case of failing to the other projects is wrong then talk with Troles - it's up to him to decide what will happen with a money then.
3. $4000 is about 60 copies of IBrowse. Or a few A1s. If you think it's too much for an uptodate browser (it exist already, it's not a promise of doing something not realistic, like some other projects out-there) that will be freeware then none force you to donate. To put it fair - i don't care much about OS4, i'm not it's fan or user. But some of you want me to support OS4 and it's my offer.

@marcik

But some of you want me to support OS4 and it's my offer.

Sounds fair to me. Hope this works out.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@marcik

I'm sure you can understand why there's some skepticism regarding bounties. I hope enough money will be raised for you to start porting and I hope that when the OS4 version is out you'll still accept donations - because I'll donate some then but not sooner.

Quote:

JurassicC wrote: @Troels We raised somewhere between £200-£300 at BB1. I don't know the exact figure, Outcast knows as he dealt with the passing on of the monies. It went towards that sponsor a developer initiative. The guy that organised it dropped out of the forums years ago now and we never found out what happened to the money or what project or hardware it went towards sponsoring.

Which project was this?

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@Darth_X

I'm not surprised - "bounty" is just another way of saying "pre-pay", and we all know how well that usually turns out. I think Marcik's terms are fair, but I'd be a lot more inclined to donate after seeing either a development screenshot or a statement by a trustworthy 3rd party saying that the project is really in progress. I'm just a *little* bit tired of people promising stuff and not delivering.