Quote:

CodeSmith wrote: @fairlanefastback I'm just curious who the "we" are he's referring to at the gateway 2000 show. I wasn't that involved with amiga stuff at the time, so that period of history is pretty much unknown to me. What were the Friedens known for at the time, that they would have a reputation as "code monkeys", and with whom? I suspect Tigger's animosity towards them stems from something that went on between them before that.

First of all until the Gateway show I didnt know who Hyperion or the Friedens were. At the Gateway 2000 show (Someone is likely to point out I got the year wrong) Hyperion was showing a game port Doom I believe, I'm not a gamer. Hyperion were the new people at the show, the usuals were there, Nova Design, Holger (I think that was his last show, (Fleecy telling everyone he and Holger shared a sheep may be part of that), amiga.org had a booth, I had a booth, the CD folks from Canada, several dealers, couple guys from Newtek were there at one of the dealers booth. The band Annex was there. So a bunch of us were in the bar on Friday which was after the 3 hour sheepapalooza and the booth setup. And someone started talking about had we seen the Hyperion Doom port, conversation went into how fast was it and at that time it was slower then the other two ports, so after a few beers, someone bringing the 3rd fastest amiga port of doom to the Amiga show was pretty funny, even the Frog thought it was funny and he doesnt drink. After awhile Holger I believe said he wanted to know how you could make the game slow enough to be the 3rd fastest, because the 2nd one was pretty miserable and someone brought up monkeys and typewriters, which is where code monkeys comes from, and for the rest of the show Hyperions technical staff were regarded as code monkeys. Given some of there "technical" comments over the years as I said earlier thats likely to be taken as an insult to code monkeys worldwide.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

All Hyperion have to do to get this motion dismissed is to have a Amiga OS 3.9 cd case introduced as an exhibit . (Back of case)

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@the guys discussing insolvency or lack thereof

I have a question: if Bill McEwen used "we're flat broke" as an excuse to not pay Bolton Peck and the others, why can't Hyperion use that exact same excuse to say "we own OS4 now according to clause [blah] of the contract"? I mean, it seems to me that in order to keep the OS4 trademarks, Amiga Inc would have to pay the debts they owe (and possibly a penalty, since if they were not insolvent, they basically didn't pay because they didn't feel like it - I'm sure that must be illegal!).

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Tigger Quote: These are a couple of guys who were known for writing bad ports of open source games I wasn't around then, not all of us were. References please? Quote: until the Sheeplord decided to give Hyperion the job for OS4 Who is the new bit of venom, the title of "Sheeplord" for, Bill or Fleecy? I'm assuming Fleecy as fleece comes from Sheep?

The title of Sheeplord was given to Fleecy at the Amiga 2000 show in St Louis. AI invited all the current and new developers had some former developers there as well, we all had to sign NDAs to get in. And then Fleecy started telling us about the future, we learned a little about TAO, then Fleecy would get nervous and tell a joke about him having sex with sheep, then some more about TAO, and another joke about him and Sheep. At one point he said Holger and him had a crush on the same sheep as part of a joke. During the 3 hour meeting, at 6 times Fleecy told the developers who he was counting on to revamp the amiga about his love for sheep, his sheep was better then his wife, thats why he was called Fleecy, etc. And they wonder why folks like Corel (who had sent someone) didnt want alot to do with them after that. Then he explained that they were going to sell Made for Amiga stickers, and they would just cost 20% of the sale price of the software to put them on your packages, and that for 50% they would sell our software on there site at that point the developers all knew why he really was called Fleecy.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

Sale, transfer and licensing of trademarks

In various jurisdictions a trademark may be sold with or without the underlying goodwill which subsists in the business associated with the mark. However, this is not the case in the United States, where the courts have held that this would "be a fraud upon the public". In the U.S., trademark registration can therefore only be sold and assigned if accompanied by the sale of an underlying asset. Examples of assets whose sale would ordinarily support the assignment of a mark include the sale of the machinery used to produce the goods that bear the mark, or the sale of the corporation (or subsidiary) that produces the trademarked goods.

Most jurisdictions provide for the use of trademarks to be licensed to third parties. The licensor (usually the trademark owner) must monitor the quality of the goods being produced by the licensee to avoid the risk of trademark being deemed abandoned by the courts. A trademark license should therefore include appropriate provisions dealing with quality control, whereby the licensee provides warranties as to quality and the licensor has rights to inspection and monitoring.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolvency

Insolvency is a financial condition experienced by a person or business entity when their assets no longer exceed their liabilities, commonly referred to as 'balance-sheet' insolvency, or when the person or entity can no longer meet its debt obligations when they come due, commonly referred to as 'cash-flow' insolvency.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

All Hyperion have to do to get this motion dismissed is to have a Amiga OS 3.9 cd case introduced as an exhibit . (Back of case)

What do you mean ?

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

Who has rights to OS 3.9 ?

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

"Copyright Amiga Inc., Snoqualmie, WA, USA and Haage&Partner Computer GmbH, Glashuetten, Germany" both together. So how will this affect the court case ?

Last edited by Tomppeli on 24-May-2007 at 09:19 PM.
Last edited by Tomppeli on 24-May-2007 at 09:18 PM.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Spectre660

Would you mind just telling us, for the benefit of those of us who don't own 3.9?

[edit: thank you Tomppeli]

Last edited by CodeSmith on 24-May-2007 at 09:18 PM.

@Tomppeli

"The Agreement" clauses 4.01 & 4.04

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Quote:

Spectre660 wrote: Its a pity I had to return before Amiga Inc withdraws their Motion for Injunctive relief. If any one thinks that Amiga Delaware can win this first motion they are in for a rude shock. Amiga Delaware have been taken to the cleaners big time ............

I think there is a good chance they will win. Hyperions presented evidence that proves there reasons for throwing out the motion are incorrect.

1) Itec wasnt a successor - See Itec sale document and KMOS sale document
2) KMOS wasnt a successor - see KMOS sale document
3) We have a license because of insolvency - see KMOS sale document

So whats Hyperions case again?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Both have a dance around the pole approach.

do you use the contract as it stood without examining the actual relationship of
the parties when they seem to have jointly deviated from it ?

Points will have to be looked at sequentially.
There are a lot of vague issues

start with ownership of 3.5 and 3.9 and ability to produce source code to Hyperion.

next "Best efforts to ensure ready for release before March,1 2002"
Both companies dealt publicly with the realities of the hardware design
can you force this as a legal point ?
"Ready for release ?" not release . cloudy again

The solvency issue: Judge is going to have to read a lot of Amiga Dirty Laundry.

The Garry Hare CEO days :
It seems that the current AMIGA inc are missing some vital info during Hare's
tenure of CEO....

The endless loop of should this be in a court of law first or another venue.

I am getting so confused by all the aspects............

Fortunately as we are not lawyers so no one can lose on our bad advise .......

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Tigger

Quote:

So whats Hyperions case again?

The same as before your reply.
They say they found out about the insolvency afterwards, and as stated by their (please learn that, sometime, will you?) lawyer.
Taking those contracts as waiver, like you are argueing, is not applicable as the precedent says he is quoting.

@Tigger
So your whole basis for saying the Frieden's were know for poor open-source 3D games (note the plural) is that you once saw a slow port of Doom?!? A port which you have no idea how long they had been working on? And also you chose to ignore all the subsequent first-rate game ports they did, including other open-source ports?

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@all

Suggestion:

Stop feeding the Tigger.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-May-2007 at 10:20 PM.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Also there is no definition of "the Amiga Platform" in the Agreement. a serious loop hole for the target hardware definition...

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

Quote:

Sneaky wrote: @Tigger Quote: So whats Hyperions case again? The same as before your reply. They say they found out about the insolvency afterwards, and as stated by their (please learn that, sometime, will you?) lawyer. Taking those contracts as waiver, like you are argueing, is not applicable as the precedent says he is quoting.

This is the order that things occurred.

1) April 23, 2003 - Itec buys Classic Amiga OS, including the contract
2) April 24, 2003 - Hyperion signs the buyout agreement with Itec
3) August 7, 2003 - Bill McEwen in his deposition talks about AI's financial situation
4) August 27, 2003 - The deposition becomes public knowledge
5) September 2003 - Ben Hermans makes several comments about the OS and the deposition on Moobunny and ann.lu (probably here as well)
6) May 2004 - Contract is signed between KMOS and Hyperion
7) May 2007 - Hyperions response seems based on us believing that Ben didnt read the document he was quoting from years ago.

See the problem now?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@ChrisH

Do you think Hyperion was sued by there distributer for doing good ports, or bad ports? I said they were nicknamed code monkeys because they brought the 3rd fastest port to a show. I think there lack of understanding of OS issues has been shown several times during this OS4 adventure, and I'm sorry but at least 1/2 a dozen people on this board, could have ported the OS to PPC in less then 5 years, singlehandedly.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

This is the order that things occurred.

Quote:

1) April 23, 2003 - Itec buys Classic Amiga OS, including the contract

Hyperion's lawyer has attempted to cloud the validity of this contract transfer and thus later transfers..

To counter this AMIGA INC will have to produce a document signed
by AMIGA Washington,Hyperion and Eyetech explicitly agreeing to the transfer of
Amiga interests to ITEC.

if this purchase/transfer can be proven to be invalid then all that follows
becomes null and void .
does not matter who signed what or said what after.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 24-May-2007 at 10:50 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card