@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: @Tigger While I'm quite happy with this decision to pick H&P

Why?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

I agree, it head been better if some more devoted came in earlier for example Hyperion, that has done great job on AmigaOS4, too bed so much time was wasted whit AmigaOS3.5 / OS3.9, most of the fixes where already found on Aminet.

The biggest advantage OS3.5/3.9 has is AsyncWB, Reaction, and Find utility; if you can live whit out this you don’t need OS3.5/3.9, I have also read comments from OS4 developers about quality of code form OS3.5/3.9 it not where uplifting reading.

But this probably just what Amiga Inc ordered as per original plans, if Amiga Inc head there way whit AmigaOS4 it be complete different product right now, some thing like a 68k JIT emulator on to of WarpOS whit out any major enchantments, and only those lucky few that own a working Amiga1200 or 4000 whit AmigaOne add-on card be running AmigaOS4 right now

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http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

Hell if Kermit had been involved back then I doubt we would be where we are now... I suspect we would be running Image FX 6 on OS4.5 powered super Amigas by now.

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Sven Harvey
Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
A1000, A2000, A1500 A500, CDTV, A500+, A600, A4000, A1200, CD32, AT A1200HD, A1-XE

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Tigger I agree, it head been better if some more devoted came in earlier for example Hyperion, that has done great job on AmigaOS4, too bed so much time was wasted whit AmigaOS3.5 / OS3.9, most of the fixes where already found on Aminet.

Personally as I said before, dollar for dollar, month for month, 4.0 is by far the worst update we've ever had, and I go back to 1.1 days and teaching the A1000 to talk to the dolphins. In the time its taken Hyperion to get 4.0 we got 2.1, 2.5, 3.0 & 3.1 and probably the 2.04/1.4 stuff. Thats not just my opinion, its Haynies and Carls and alot of those of us who have been doing amiga stuff for a long time. Five years for 4.0 is just crazy, its too long and way too little. I mean I totally agree that 3.5 was just gluing a bunch of third party stuff to 3.1, and 3.9 followed in that tradition and then 4.0 just made it much worse, now key elements (the exec) have ownership issues.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Personally as I said before, dollar for dollar, month for month, 4.0 is by far the worst update we've ever had, and I go back to 1.1 days and teaching the A1000 to talk to the dolphins. In the time its taken Hyperion to get 4.0 we got 2.1, 2.5, 3.0 & 3.1 and probably the 2.04/1.4 stuff.

Yeah, but that's not really a fair comparison AND it's not really all Hyperion's fault.

Why?

Well, 1st, because during that time frame, not 1 but 2 operating systems were being developed at the SAME time!! OS4 to fool US ALL while top secret OS5 was being developed by some of the BIGGEST MULTIMEDIA ENABLING TECHNOLGY companies known to ALL of Europe! That's right, not JUST ONE but TWO different Amiga Inc's, one in Washington and One in Delaware, Itec, KMOS, AND a little company in India, OH YEAH baby, ALL working on Uber secret OS5!!! Why is that not fair you ask?? Well that leads us to the second reason, you see this huge conglomerate of companies had to take all the good coders and left Hyperion with nothing, just so that OS5 could blow Mac OS X out of the water! Bo Yah Baby!

So I think your comparison is a little jaded.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@NutsAboutAmiga

Rather than the lucky few owning a working AmigaOne?

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Currently planning to upgrade my Amstrad CPC

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

if Amiga Inc head there way whit AmigaOS4 it be complete different product right now,

Nope, if Amiga Inc had their way, OS4 would have been a completely different product 5 years ago.

Quote:

some thing like a 68k JIT emulator on to of WarpOS whit out any major enchantments,

Which is a lot more than Hyperion actually delivered 5 years ago. Or four years ago, for that matter.

The original plan was to release something "without major enchantments" :) within a few months. Things presumably would then have proceeded t 4.1, 4.2 and so on. Just because Hyperion changed the plan, extending development time for 4.0 by an order of magnitude and adding some "enchantments" does not mean that the original plan was about doing the simple (and sensible) thing and then stopping forever....

@umisef

Quote:

The original plan was to release something "without major enchantments" :) within a few months.

Pretty hard to enhance something that you're never given the source code to. Guess Hyperion had to change their plans and start from scratch since AInc. lied. Oh, but AInc never lies...

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote: @umisef Quote: The original plan was to release something "without major enchantments" :) within a few months. Pretty hard to enhance something that you're never given the source code to. Guess Hyperion had to change their plans and start from scratch

They got the source code in December of 2001, one month after signing the contract for OS 4.0, so they reason they took years to deliver an OS they promised in 5 months is what exactly?
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

so they reason they took years to deliver an OS they promised in 5 months is what exactly?

Other than not being delivered the sources as promised? Well, didn't you read post #867 ?? I think that explains it clearly.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic

But practically they got the sources anyway and in time so ?

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Tigger

can list the chenges and new components bettwen amigaos 1.3 to 3.1? i ask this because from user stand point i don't se any major ensantments, the bigest differnts is 8 colors icons vs 4 colors, and new colors on intution, oh almost forgat the 2 extra for pcmcia and ide drivers.

amigaos 4.0 looks like 3.9 and patches butt there are menny new drivers for audio, scsi, usb, ethernet and we have new components like jit emulator, screensavers and letts not forget the enchantments in execsg, and lets not forget how broken dos and intuition was,

amigaos4 development was at one point holted because they running out of money, head to do work that did pay the bills, i don't think commodore head funding problems when they wrote the older versions

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@Tigger

way do you keep bringing up the source code, it was in 68000 asm and usable, it head to rewritten or replaced, it does not matter when they hyperion got the code

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@Tigger

Quote:

Personally as I said before, dollar for dollar, month for month, 4.0 is by far the worst update we've ever had, and I go back to 1.1 days and teaching the A1000 to talk to the dolphins. In the time its taken Hyperion to get 4.0 we got 2.1, 2.5, 3.0 & 3.1 and probably the 2.04/1.4 stuff. Thats not just my opinion, its Haynies and Carls and alot of those of us who have been doing amiga stuff for a long time. Five years for 4.0 is just crazy, its too long and way too little.

With no funding from AInc what can people expect. It's a sign of the state of the Amiga market. I'm sure even you would agree that if Hyperion('s sub-contractor's) had been able to work on OS4 full time it would have been done quicker.

Quote:

I mean I totally agree that 3.5 was just gluing a bunch of third party stuff to 3.1, and 3.9 followed in that tradition and then 4.0 just made it much worse, now key elements (the exec) have ownership issues. -Tig

According to the court submissions, the same ownersrhip issues as 3.5 & 3.9.

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Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

If you want to compare fairly what would have happened if Hyperion had done it 100% the Ainc way then I think it is wrong to compare prior verions of AmigaOS against each other ie. 1.3 vs 2.1 etc (which were fully funded Commodore products and have no relevance to Ainc or Hyperion), but you should compare the 2 products the companies ACTUALLY made.


AmigaDE/AmigaAnywhere - 5 Years+ - Ainc

AmigaOS4 - 5 Years+ - Hyperion


Lets discuss the "robustness" of each shall we. AInc couldn't do cr@p with AmigaAnywhere what in the world makes you think there plans would be so much better for AmigaOS4. You're living in a dream would my friends if you think AmigaInc would have somehow been the savior of AmigaOS. Where have you people been?


Also lets compare Amiga Inc's other product:

AmigaOS5 - 5 Years+?? - Ainc

AmigaOS4 - 5 Years+ - Hyperion


Oh yes, Amiga Inc could have been the savior of AmigaOS4!!! Damn you Hyperion for making a fully functional OS instead of making an OS that NEVER came out but in our minds blows Mac OS X out of existance!

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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@Tigger

How can you compare OS 4.0 to earlier updates? Versions 3.9 and earlier run on different hardware. Versions 3.9 and earlier were all updates on the same CPU and custom chips. OS 4 had to be rewritten for a different processor, motherboard, and custom chips.

Only Amiga is responsible for not producing updates. If they subcontracted out, it is still their fault. Amiga Inc. screwed the OS line when they did not retain complete rights to the OS 3.5 and 3.9. At least we both agree that Amiga screwed up again with 4.0.

Kirka

@kirka

Quote:

How can you compare OS 4.0 to earlier updates?

I don't find that a strange thing to do. Not at all. Even the offfical OS4-website compares features of OS4 (e.g. memory allocation) to earlier versions (3.x).

Quote:

Versions 3.9 and earlier run on different hardware. Versions 3.9 and earlier were all updates on the same CPU and custom chips. OS 4 had to be rewritten for a different processor, motherboard, and custom chips.

So what? I guess nobody would question the validity of a comparison between MacOS 9 and OS X only because the latter also runs on x86.

I think that the reimplementation of Exec for PPC CPUs alone would be more than enough to qualify OS4.0 (not to mention the dependencies to the custom chips now gone forever) as the most important update to AmigaOS since the 2.0/A3000 days.

I might understand the criticism to Hyperion for taking quite a bit of time to complete their work, but at the same time everybody knows OS4.0 was a very very very limited budget project, with most people of the team doing their part of the assigned job during their spare time.

I know what will be argued: 5 years is still too much, but IMHO is still a respectable achievement, compared to the absolute waste of time and money that AInc invested in their DE madness, intentionally putting "Classic" OS to limbo.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Tigger way do you keep bringing up the source code, it was in 68000 asm and usable, it head to rewritten or replaced, it does not matter when they hyperion got the code

I didnt bring up the sourcecode, Amigaheretic brought up the source code, I just answered that the OS wasnt late because of the sourcecode because they got the sourcecode about a month after signing the 4.0 contract, you cant blame a 4 year delay on the backend on a 1 month delay on the front end.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Tigger can list the chenges and new components bettwen amigaos 1.3 to 3.1? i ask this because from user stand point i don't se any major ensantments, the bigest differnts is 8 colors icons vs 4 colors, and new colors on intution, oh almost forgat the 2 extra for pcmcia and ide drivers.

1000s of things more then the jump from 3.9 to 4.0, its not even a close comparision. Everything for AGA for instance, including changes to virtually every library and function to support those things. Frankly the changes between 1.3 and 2.0 were probably more significant then the delta between 3.9 and 4.0 and that change, plus 3 other major ones occurred all in the time we've had to go from 3.9 to 4.0 on a single piece of hardware.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.