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PosterThread
PR 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 10:16:33
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

@_ThEcRoW

You can run it on OS4 at the same time and switch screens. There is AbiWord, a Paint-program and some other programs allready but FireFox... Could Our bounty go to AFX-group then? They deserve it like all Amigans deserve Firefox to use if IB does not load some pages. Then I'll party but not yet;)



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amipal 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 11:11:46
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1907
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@PR

QUote from the Amizilla FAQ:
Quote:
3. The AmiZilla Project must fully compile with running binaries on each of the following Amiga-like OS's: OS3.1, OS3.5+, MorphOS native version, Amiga OS 4.0 native version, UAE, Amithlon, DraCo. (Hint: don't hit the hardware, and stick to OS3.1: MUI, ClassAct 2, some internal gadget system, and bgui are acceptable). -etc.


Can it be classed as "native" under X11?

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spotUP 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 11:30:44
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2896
From: Up Rough Demo Squad

@amipal

it is native under x11.
what's missing is an amiga gui.

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tomazkid 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 11:33:16
#24 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@amipal

Quote:
Can it be classed as "native" under X11?


As SpotUp said, the X11 itself is native.


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Drathro 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 16:17:25
#25 ]
Member
Joined: 20-May-2007
Posts: 38
From: Newcastle, England

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:
I hope Afxgroup can pull this off, and can claim the bounty:

http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZilla.html


That's a lot of money

(Fixed quote, it was missing a space /tomazkid)

Last edited by tomazkid on 12-Jul-2007 at 04:27 PM.
Last edited by tomazkid on 12-Jul-2007 at 04:26 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 17:49:37
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2341
From: Perugia, ITALY

@Drathro

Nice thing surely, but...
X11 was SLOOOOOOW....
Video refresh was rellay slow not so nice to use a program with so bad scrolling...
However that's first step...
Hope that in near future we can have it fully working under OS4!
GOOD WORK!

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hotrod 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 17:56:26
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2993
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@all

Has any one read the FAQ lately? Read it here:

AmiZilla

An x11 port isn't anywhere close to what's written there. But one should keep in mind that even though these things are wishes I don't think that they are requirements for the bounty...

Last edited by hotrod on 12-Jul-2007 at 06:00 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 18:19:11
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@salass00

Quote:
Dynamic linking is the same as static linking except that the linking is done when the program is run by the OS


So a program using dynamic linking becomes big in memory, but not on disk.

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Crumb 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 20:57:58
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
So a program using dynamic linking becomes big in memory, but not on disk.


mmm I guess that Linux/Windows will use the MMU to avoid having the same code various times in memory. Please tell me that it works that way, because if the code is duplicated that's simply a waste of ram.

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Hans 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 21:01:06
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5066
From: New Zealand

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
So a program using dynamic linking becomes big in memory, but not on disk.


mmm I guess that Linux/Windows will use the MMU to avoid having the same code various times in memory. Please tell me that it works that way, because if the code is duplicated that's simply a waste of ram.


Given that it's called a shared object, I'd assume that the code is not duplicated in memory for every program that uses it. In that case, it should be called a dynamic linked library, not a shared object.

Hans

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Frags 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 21:31:51
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

Could the OS4 x11 code be kind of `wrapped around` the firefox code to make a single binary? Then it could be compiled for everything and claim the bounty.

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amipal 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 12-Jul-2007 21:49:15
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1907
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@hotrod

Quote:
Has any one read the FAQ lately? Read it here:

AmiZilla

An x11 port isn't anywhere close to what's written there. But one should keep in mind that even though these things are wishes I don't think that they are requirements for the bounty...

My thoughts entirely!

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pixie 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 0:03:14
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@spotUP

Bring it all for all flavours as bounty implies then...

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Ants 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 2:14:45
#34 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Posts: 75
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Frags
Quote:
Could the OS4 x11 code be kind of `wrapped around` the firefox code to make a single binary? Then it could be compiled for everything and claim the bounty.

It's not that easy, you have to write OS specific code for each platform, where it differs from OS4, and go through and do all the configurations for each platform too- and XPCOM needs to be written in assem for each platform (not that hard though)- it's a lot of work! It would have been far easier to create an OS3.1 (68k) version, and then port from there.

Also, I'd note, that they couldn't use the AmiZilla's Team OS3 code to claim the bounty (well, not without coming to some arrangement with us first). But honestly, I doubt OS4 devs want an OS3 or any other version, as having Firefox only on OS4 is a big advantage over opposition!

But, hey- that aside, good luck to them- I'll be watching their progress with interest!

Ants
AmiZilla Coordinator

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umisef 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 3:41:39
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Crumb

Quote:
Please tell me that it works that way, because if the code is duplicated that's simply a waste of ram.


Of course it works that way. Actually, it works even better --- the code is (usually) also shared with the disk caching system.

Essentially, under linux, loading a shared library comes down to mmap()ing it into the process's address space. When multiple processes mmap() the same file, they get to use the same phyiscal memory pages, despite each process "seeing" their own copy in their own address space (and potentially, at an address different from where other processes see it).

There is a small caveat, which turns out to also be a large advantage.... Given that each process might see the shared library at a different address, it *may* be necessary to apply relocation information to the actual code (just the same way as is done when an AmigaOS executable is loaded). Of course, this modifies the content of the memory --- and with the memory shared between multiple processes, all hell would break loose. Which is why the mmap is done "privately" --- meaning that any modifications should only be visible to the one making them. This is implemented using "copy-on-write" --- memory pages are shared until they are written to; The moment a page is written, a brand new physical page is allocated, the unmodified content copied, and the modification done on that copy (which then gets mapped into the modifying process's address space to replace the shared version).

The drawback of course is that this reduces the amount of sharing that can be done; It's not that bad in real life. On most architectures, shared libraries are built using Position Independent Code, which means no relocation information needs to be applied, anyway. Where that is not fully possible, common libraries have "preferred" locations in the address space for which no relocations are necessary, and when mapped at those locations (which is usually the case), can be fully shared.

The huge advantage of allowing for this kind of thing, however, is that the copy-on-write works just as well for global and static variables. Unlike AmigaOS shared libraries, linux ones can use such variables to their heart's content without worrying about things breaking. And given that even the standard C library has numerous examples implying static variables in provided functions, that's worth a lot.

mmap() is a tremendously powerful and useful concept, especially when combined with multiple and/or stupidly large address spaces.

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spotUP 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 3:43:56
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2896
From: Up Rough Demo Squad

@pixie

uh? what have i got to do with things?
i just answered a question. is it os4 native?
yes.


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jahc 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 4:22:50
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@umisef

Great post, man. I enjoyed reading that. :)

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itix 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 7:20:55
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@umisef

Quote:

Unlike AmigaOS shared libraries, linux ones can use such variables to their heart's content without worrying about things breaking. And given that even the standard C library has numerous examples implying static variables in provided functions, that's worth a lot.


Ahem. Static variables are not problem in library code

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pixie 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 8:44:02
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3115
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@spotUP
uh? Bounty conditions?

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jahc 
Re: Firefox on X11
Posted on 13-Jul-2007 9:19:31
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@pixie

Are you saying that SpotUp is able to set the bounty conditions?

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