Quote:

Tigger wrote: @smithy Quote: smithy wrote: Because: (a) they don't have the funds They seem to have more then Hyperion.

No they don't. As we've seen from the court docs in an email from Kouri, Amiga Inc is on a tight leash. Most likely they'll get a monthly "allowance" to cover the payroll. We've seen that when Bill acts on his own (Kent) he just doesn't get the cash from the organ grinders. The expensive law firm is almost certainly paid for by Kouri's company/ies.

Quote:

Quote: (b) they don't have any knowhow to develop an OS Either does Hyperion. They contracted all the work out.

Perhaps they don't in house, from a technical point of view, but clearly the project has been managed and coordinated from within Hyperion. Amiga Inc is incapable of even doing that. Even when they had more staff and a CTO back in 2001, they spectacularly failed to achieve everything (and that's with the same no-money-available as Hyperion have had). They have a track of record of being incapable of managing the OS4 project. Today's Amiga Inc can only be very loosely described as a technology company.

Quote:

Quote: (c) by all accounts, they've squandered all goodwill with the OS4 developers Hyperion owes most of the OS4 guys lots of money, I'm not sure there is alot of goodwill there either.

Who knows, but it seems that OS4 development continues despite this. The OS4 developers who have posted here have not been supportive of Amiga Inc, and continue work for Hyperion. That's indicative of support.

Quote:

Quote: (d) they've never had any interest in desktop or AmigaOS Remember Hyperion was making an Embedded OS.

Yes I remember the embedded phase, which appeared overnight, repeated obsessively and stayed for a while, but then quietly went away again. Hyperion has always had a big mouth.

Quote:

Quote: (e) they don't own the trademark "Amiga" so couldn't call it "AmigaOS" anyway. Whether AI(D) owns the trademark may be up to debate, the fact Hyperion doesnt isnt in question.

Hpyerion signed a contract with the genuine owners of the Amiga TM to use the trademarks. Amiga D did not.

Quote:

So I guess my point is that all 5 of those points are true for Hyperion as well, should we start a new thread on them as well?

The original point was samface explaining why he thought Amiga D a good idea to continue development of OS4, and that Amiga D should manage the contractors directly. I've just explained why that's completely infeasible and highlighted what happened when they did run the project directly. You've not said anything to rebuff that.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Sure, no consumer campaign ever impacted any company decision, policy, or action in the history of man right? Lol.

Are you serious? I guess not by that "lol". I mean, an Amiga consumer campaign? What would we be able to do, threaten to not reduce the companies product development costs of potential products by 2 tenths of a percent? Or, all three of us start marching outside Bill McEwan's home with signs saying "h*ll no, we won't go"? You really ARE funny if you believe there would be enough product demand in the Amiga community to affect or have the slightest impact on any serious business decision. I'm sorry if that hurts your ego but that's the reality of our situation.

In short: Want to make money? Stay far away from the Amiga market. Want to loose money? Base your business decisions on what people in the Amiga community wants.

Quote:

Just bear in mind the last time you were wrong on US law.

If you start remembering the times you have been wrong. Atleast I can admit to being wrong. It happens to all of us some time. In fact, I don't even think of it in the terms of being "wrong" anymore, just misinformed. In the age of googlism, false information is spread all the time and the only way to avoid it would be to stop seeking information entirely. It's through discussions like these that misconceptions are exposed. To make it an argument about who is right or wrong would be discouraging for this process.

Now, IANAL and all that but common sense tells me that intentions for something has no bearing on who is more entitled to owning it. To be able to do what you want with something, unless it is illegal, is the very definition of having it in your possession and owning it.

Furthermore, even if they would have to display their intentions in order to protect their ownership, how do you refute *any* statement of intentions? Such statement would be impossible to prove as well as disprove since we're just talking about future plans that may or may not be followed through. So why bother with such a complex conspiracy involving announcements with ACK and all that?

Again, there really is nothing to support your theory that Amiga Inc. would only want to put the AmigaOS IP in an IP vault somewhere. I'm not asking you to buy into what Amiga Inc. claims to be their intentions, doubt them all you want. Although, their stories has alot more going for them than these theories of yours, IMO.

Last edited by samface on 31-Jul-2007 at 08:56 PM.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Quote:

Are you serious? I guess not by that "lol". I mean, an Amiga consumer campaign? What would we be able to do, threaten to not reduce the companies product development costs of potential products by 2 tenths of a percent? Or, all three of us start marching outside Bill McEwan's home with signs saying "h*ll no, we won't go"? You really ARE funny if you believe there would be enough product demand in the Amiga community to affect or have the slightest impact on any serious business decision. I'm sorry if that hurts your ego but that's the reality of our situation.

Such dramatic imagery there. Whether you like it or not the community has created a ton of internet content on the subject of this company. If you think that has no impact to someone researching the company as an investment I think you'd be sorely mistaken. I think Amiga would much rather us be talking about Blizzard cards all day long on these forums than anything controversial that surrounds their corporate dealings, let alone a community campaign. And if you really honestly think they want to release AOS 4.0 to the masses it really would be bad that the community that was keeping it alive with usage all these years was the same community that had a campaign to shun any new efforts in regard to it from them as a company. For a company struggling to get any new products finished (Whack Force, FTP Force, etc) you would think they'd want us behind them. I'm not saying how big of an impact the impact would be, but there is no reason to label it worth no effort at all as you would.

Quote:

IMO.

Bravo Samface, bravo, yes we differ in opinion on this. No biggie.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

OMG, you ARE serious about the great consumer demanded that the Amiga community would supposedly represent and be able to use to affect the business decisions made by Amiga Inc. and their partners! LOL! That's hilarious! :

Sure, I don't doubt not just Amiga Inc. would have prefered that we would be expressing our hopes for the future rather than the failures and broken promises of the past. I would too. However, you've heard of the saying "all publicity is good publicity", right? You see, the problem is that it goes both ways, leaving us with the worst kind of publicity, ie none. Nobody cares about what you and I think. Get over it.

Besides, even if our little community of a few hundred still active Amiga users per country would have the ability to affect business decisions (I'm giggling as I type this, it's seriously far out there), I would strongly advice against it. The pitch-fork mentailty never was appealing to me. Just file a complaint at your National Board for Consumer Complaints and let justice have it's course.

_________________
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MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Sure newspaper reports inspired by Rich Woods provided info scare away your made-up mystery investor as per your conjecture in another thread and cause failure for the company but anything the community ever does will always have flatline zero impact ever. Even if thats true, if it makes Helge and others feel better what do you care? And lets bear in mind if you are right that the articles scared away an investor what one single Amiga community member then achieved through his actions. There you claimed to be applying reason. Funny its not even-handed. Which is it, there is an impact from what community members do (we tanked the Kent deal for Amiga) or not (we can never impact anything).

I think you like to play devil's advocate and you enjoy trying to push buttons with people. So giggle away.

And BTW what does a Swedish government agency have to do with anything? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_National_Board_for_Consumer_Complaints )

LOL!

EDIT: Personally I can't see how anyone tanked the Kent deal but Amiga since in late May Bill said it was all down to merely one authorization on the Board to release the money and he re-iterated they were well funded. Which to me says the money is already in the bank in their possesion.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2007 at 11:26 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2007 at 11:21 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2007 at 11:19 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2007 at 11:15 PM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@samface

Quote:

OMG, you ARE serious about the great consumer demanded that the Amiga community would supposedly represent and be able to use to affect the business decisions made by Amiga Inc. and their partners! LOL! That's hilarious! :

Are you talking serious? Your logic is quite hard to follow...

Last edited by pixie on 31-Jul-2007 at 11:11 PM.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@fairlanefastback

I didn't mention the swedish "Allmänna reklamationsnämnden". I said National Board for Consumer Complaints, as in not refering to any National Board for Consumer Complaints in particular. I pressume there is some form of equivalent in the U.S., whatever it may be called, where you as a consumer can file a complaint on a company or a company's product.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@pixie

You never really was any good at understanding anything I write and I'm not even going to try explaining it. The more I tell you, I'm just giving you more to misinterpret and then use to spread lies about me.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Yes. The U.S. has a BBB (Better Business Bureau).
In fact, one of the 3 users who had not received his board back from Adam filed a complaint with them. That board was since returned to the user.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
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@samface

Delusional once again... I only asked because of the LOL obviously, was it that hard to follow?

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@pixie

Quote:

I only asked because of the LOL obviously, was it that hard to follow?

You tell me, I'm not the one having problems understanding the meaning of "LOL". It means Laughing Out Loud, BTW. And yes, I seriously meant that I was laughing out loud. LOL!

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@number6

Great! See how much better that works than waiving those pitch-forks, eh?

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

Funny, not a while a go you find it quite difficult to understand...

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @number6 Great! See how much better that works than waiving those pitch-forks, eh?

You might want to read that thread first before proclaiming that. The BBB as described seemed to be something he did in the past trying to get his board back. I think what you would call pitch-forks in that thread appear to be more the reason Chris got his stuff back based on the timing of events, at least as I see it. Sad as that is.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Aug-2007 at 12:15 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 01-Aug-2007 at 12:14 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@number6

Quote:

. The U.S. has a BBB (Better Business Bureau).

Which is of limited help. It's a voluntary membership thing for companies to choose to join or not. It's basically a central repository of complaints and if they're been resolved or not, to define that company's reputation. A company becoming a member and displaying the plaque shows they care what the BBB has on file for their reputation, and are more likely to sort things out to keep their record clean. There's a large number of companies that are not members, and thus may not care about their reputation there. And ACK is Canadian, I'm not sure if the BBB works there as well or if they have an equivalent or if ACK cares about that.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@smithy

Quote:

smithy wrote: Because: (a) they don't have the funds

They seem to have more then Hyperion.
[/quote]

No they don't.
[/quote]
Yes they do, noone invested $2M in Hyperion in the last 2 years, AI/KMOS has had two groups do that. T

Quote:

The expensive law firm is almost certainly paid for by Kouri's company/ies.

I'm sure thats true, however we notice that Hyperion doesnt have an expensive law firm and has real debts larger then AI(D).

Quote:

Perhaps they don't in house, from a technical point of view, but clearly the project has been managed and coordinated from within Hyperion.

I've seen absolutely no evidence of that. The project has been led (such as it was) by the Friedens and Olaf, none of who are Hyperion employees, and the project is grossly late and over budget, I personally would have fired a bunch of them 4 years ago with the lack of progress. The problem is that like 3.5 and 3.9 after it and unlike 1.4, 2.0, 2.1, 2.5, 3.0 or 3.1 there was no overall design for the project and no leadership from the top down.

Quote:

They have a track of record of being incapable of managing the OS4 project. Today's Amiga Inc can only be very loosely described as a technology company.

They have never had the opportunity to manage OS4, despite trying to have that opportunity since 2003.

Quote:

Who knows, but it seems that OS4 development continues despite this. The OS4 developers who have posted here have not been supportive of Amiga Inc, and continue work for Hyperion. That's indicative of support.

I go back to what Dave said last year, OS4 is the slowest developed version of AmigaOS and the one with the fewest new features.

Quote:

Yes I remember the embedded phase, which appeared overnight, repeated obsessively and stayed for a while, but then quietly went away again. Hyperion has always had a big mouth.

And no clear goal or OS leader. They claim to have racked up over $1M on the OS, what plan gets that money back for them? How do you make a profit on an OS with limited ability that you have incurred over $1M in debt?

Quote:

Hpyerion signed a contract with the genuine owners of the Amiga TM to use the trademarks. Amiga D did not.

Actually KMOS (Amiga D) bought the trademarks from Amiga (w) as we see from todays documents, which is what they have been saying since the beginning.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Helge

Quote:

I want to start a "Throw-Amiga-Inc-Out-Of-The-Amiga-Industry-Campaign", cause i am very disappointed of how Amiga Inc has handled stuffs the last 8 years,

Don't be stupid. it's a bit difficult to throw out company which owns Amiga. It really does not matter if you like Amiga Inc or not, they own Amiga and you can't change it.

Last edited by miksuh on 01-Aug-2007 at 05:41 AM.

@miksuh

You maybe they just like to get out of the Amiga venture now that every thing is failing apart…

Hopefully some one whit better insides in what customers wants buys, whets worth any thing, and delivers what we need.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Aug-2007 at 08:34 PM.

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Quote:

by samface on 31-Jul-2007 23:30:00 @pixie Quote: I only asked because of the LOL obviously, was it that hard to follow? You tell me, I'm not the one having problems understanding the meaning of "LOL". It means Laughing Out Loud, BTW. And yes, I seriously meant that I was laughing out loud. LOL!

I understand now; you were indeed laughing when saying 'LOL'. No problem at all—it's a common expression of amusement online. Just let me know if there's anything else confusing about internet slang or acronyms for future references!

Quote:

by tomazkid on 26-Jul-2007 15:38:19 @fairlanefastback Sorry, forgot to reply to that yesterday, anyway here goes: Billmc Fleecy

I apologize for the delayed response. Your input is noted and appreciated.

Best regards,
Tomaz Kid (fairlanefastback) Fleecy Billmc