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      /  ACK proven untrustworthy
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ChrisH 
ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 18:48:46
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

It's now 31 days since ACK made these promises: Quote:
Posted on 8-Jul-2007 8:44:15
@kirka and everyone,

A bunch of stuff is getting shipped out this week:

1) Chris's board will go out on Monday, and he should have it on Tuesday or Wednesday.

2) I'm just waiting on a few case parts for Ivan's machine that were damaged when the machine was shipped to me, but he'll have it this week.

3) Kneedeep's board will go out around mid-week.

4) Cash flow has improved and the issue with Jens will be finalized within a couple weeks.

Adam

In case anyone isn't up to speed on who Chris (AmigaAbbatoir) or Ivan or KneeDeep are, or how many years they have been waiting for their Amiga One or their money back from ACK, then I direct you to the bottom of Hatschi's infamous ACK list.

During those 31 days, ACK's (lack of) progress was followed in this thread:
ACK customer and partner experience thread going forward
But to summarise: Only Chris's board was returned (10 days later than promised), and nothing else since then. Neither has Jens heard back from ACK about (payment for or returning of) his sample A1200 connectors.


Given that everyone was supposed to have received their Amiga Ones back within 6 days of ACK's post, and that it is now 31 days after his post, I feel that we have given ACK more than enough leeway:

1. ACK used to run a UPS store, so he should know VERY well how long packages can take to be delivered. So underestimating delivery time is not an excuse. Not that any delivery should take anything like a month!

2. ACK has held these Amiga Ones for up to 3 years, and been repeatedly chased about returning them, so he has had more than enough time to repair them. If he can't repair them for some reason, then he should return them AND any money that was given. He has not.

3. No one forced ACK to promise the return of these boards - he did that of his own free will, knowing full well the consequences of doing that.

4. If ACK says he had another convenient problem (that occurred after he gave his promises), then I am sorry, but that is one too many conveniently timed excuses for him to be believed. You know the story of the boy who cried wolf? (see Hatschi's infamous ACK list)

5. The (very late) return of a single Amiga One to it's rightful owner gave some hope that the others might follow, but this seems to have been a false hope - and perhaps was only done (under duress) to try to silence his critics.

There is simply no way left to believe that ACK made these (latest) delivery promises in good faith. He simply cannot have intended to deliver them on the timetable that he gave. Regardless of whether the two remaining Amiga Ones do eventually get returned (days, weeks or months later), I consider ACK's delivery promise from 31 days ago to be a proven lie.


So we move on to motivation - why would he lie? Well, there was mention of getting the authorities involved, and I think that must have been the sole reason for making these latest (broken) promises. Clearly he cannot (quickly) return these Amiga Ones, for whatever reason. Perhaps he damaged them further (when trying to 'fix' them), perhaps he sold them, who knows? But the reason does not matter, all that matters is that ACK knowingly told a very big lie, and did so without apparently worrying about the consequences. Considering his past history of broken promises (see Hatschi's infamous ACK list), this seems to be the way he normally acts. Such people are known as "compulsive liars", because they lie as a matter of practice, without even thinking of whether they can convincingly maintain those lies.

I do not mean to say that ACK has no technical skill - clearly he has SOME. It is merely that he appears to exaggerate it well beyond his ability to deliver (for either technical or resource reasons). Whatever is the case, he should know he cannot deliver on his promises, and the only reason he makes them is because he is a compulsive liar.

He may still deliver on some of his promises, but I will not believe (or even listen) to anything ACK says in the future. The only thing that will interest me is if/when he ever actually does deliver on his promises (most likely years late).


And finally we must consider the consequences of his proven lies. I think it would be fitting that he be banned from Amiga World (and other Amiga forums), because we cannot trust what he says. By repeatedly creating hope & then squashing it, he is pushing the remaining Amiga users away, because they become disillusioned. He also has the gall to continue to solicit FURTHER Amiga One repairs in these forums!

I also think it appropriate that those who have not received their Amiga Ones should persue it with the Canadian authorities. This is up to them of course, but it seems the only way they might ever see their very valuable Amiga Ones again.

I also retract my promise to buy OS4 hardware produce by ACK, if he delivers it before everyone else - not that I think this is likely to happen. I could not in all honesty trust him to resolve any problems that might arise (whether they be design or manufacturing faults).

edit: Correct spelling mistake (thanks ajs)

Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Aug-2007 at 07:24 PM.

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amipal 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 18:57:36
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 1907
From: Saltdean, East Sussex, UK

@ChrisH

I agree with everything you have stated. Clearly too much hope has been invested in this chap.

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Manu 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:03:13
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

I think some waste way to much energy on ACK. It should
be very clear by now to anybody how ACK works. So
I don't know why we still are discussing this. It's bad
for those who lost money on it but the community has
tried to pressure him to correct it and if it hasn't helped by
now it never will.

Now, how about a AmigaOS on x86 thread for a change ?

Last edited by Manu on 08-Aug-2007 at 07:04 PM.
Last edited by Manu on 08-Aug-2007 at 07:03 PM.

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opi 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:23:27
#4 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@ChrisH

Sorry to say this; d'uh?

I pity guys who lost their systems and cash while dealing with ACK.

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jorkany 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:25:22
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 920
From: Space Coast

@ChrisH

Yeah, but at least he's consistent.

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opi 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:30:57
#6 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Manu

Quote:
Now, how about a AmigaOS on x86 thread for a change ?


Sure, I'll sum it up to save people from reading it YET again:


  • PPC Sucks!

  • PPC Rules!

  • x86 Sucks!

  • x86 Rules!

  • We're going to loose 68k JIT emulator!

  • Fsck 68k!

  • Dual Core, man!

  • Cue Hammer's insane and detailed post linking to 150 pages long PDF with stuff I can't wrap my mind around

  • AmigaOS can't do SMP!

  • We have to be unique!

  • Apple went x86!



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Hans 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:37:15
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 5020
From: New Zealand

@opi

You forgot the last line that says "repeat from the start"

Hans

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Tomas 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:48:11
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@opi

Quote:

opi wrote:
@ChrisH

Sorry to say this; d'uh?

I pity guys who lost their systems and cash while dealing with ACK.

And if this was any other guy, then he would have gotten banned from amigaworld for scamming members, which is obviousely what this guy has been doing.

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opi 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:52:20
#9 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Hans

Ain't that obvious? Erm, I would even say: required? :D

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opi 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 19:54:19
#10 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Tomas

Yup. Well, people where kicked over lesser things. Lesser as in: I can deal with rambling of random troll, but getting people stuff is no-no. He (ACK) deserver fully for a boot in the rear.

Last edited by opi on 08-Aug-2007 at 07:55 PM.

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jtsiren 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 20:06:19
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

Even though I seriously dislike these latest events - combined with all that was wrong before, my promise of 6/27 still stands. I don't much trust ACK (well, not at all), but if they do ship against all odds then I'll be there to reward that with my small "contribution".

Quote:
I'll actually up it one notch. I promise you guys - not announce, I really promise - if ACK/Amiga delivers the hardware, available and shipping by end of Summer 2007, say by September 15th, I will buy one of the $489 units just to acknowledge they made it this time. I think this is only fair given all the discussion here.

The price doesn't have to be exactly that, just in the ball park. Specs can also change a little. It doesn't even have to have OS4 on it, I will gladly accept if it only runs Linux, but it has to be, overall, the ACK "Entry Level Design Details" machine and be openly available for general consumers to buy. This will be my small carrot.

Deliver on time this time and I'll walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Link to original post

Again, I think September 15th is a more than adequate - I think an extremely reasonable - deadline for a product that was announced to be ready this summer. The announcement has not been retracted or changed by ACK or Amiga Inc. so I assume it still stands (no matter what I think of the likelyhood of them coming through).

Guess I'll have to check back on September 15th with fairlanefastback who also joined in on the promise. Perhaps 9/15 is the next date to look forward in these ACK threads.

I would actually very much like them to surprise me. My word is good.


(Fixed link, it was too wide (long)/ tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 08-Aug-2007 at 11:33 PM.

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Frags 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 20:48:34
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@ChrisH

Maybe every member of this board should click the report button on ACK :D

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Tomas 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 20:53:05
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Frags

Quote:

Frags wrote:
@ChrisH

Maybe every member of this board should click the report button on ACK :D

He has never done anything against me personally, so i sadly do not think i could do that.
I would definitely do it if i was one of those who had lost their money or hardware.

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Frags 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 21:01:33
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@Tomas

Well, I was just kidding really. He does seem like the sort we don`t need though.

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Troels 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 21:05:34
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2004
From: Unknown

IMHO there's certainly enough evidence against ACK to ban him. We don't need scammers here, at least it will be without me reading further lies!

I suggest everyone who lost time/money/machine while doing business with ACK press the report button.

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spotUP 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 21:28:33
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 2896
From: Up Rough Demo Squad

@Troels

mmmm.... sad this... but i agree.

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Canfod 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 21:45:28
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2005
Posts: 138
From: The WET coast of Canada

@Thread

The thing that kinda pi$$es me off while reading all this Ack stuff, is that it's SOOOOO incredibly easy to simply pack up someone else's equipment, take it to the post office, or call UPS, FedEx, Purolator, or whatever shipping method you prefer, and send the damn package!

I've sold A LOT of items(mostly Amiga stuff) via the newsgroups, and Ebay over the last several years, and have always taken the stance that once someone has paid me for the item, it now belongs to them, and it's MY responsibility to get it to them A.S.A.P.!!! I suppose it's a personal thing, but quite frankly, if I had possession of someone else's item for an exorbitant amount of time, as it seems like in this case, it'd bother me enough that I'd make EVERY effort to return those items as quick as humanly possible. Maybe we don't have all the pertinent info, but from what I've read about all this crap, it DOES tend to shed some light on Ack's character.

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RockDemon 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 21:58:12
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jan-2005
Posts: 217
From: leicester, UK

@ChrisH

I think you're correct. For whatever reason he can't get the act together.

It's a shame, and i'm almost certain it isn't deliberate. i don't think ACk is evil or trying to upset people. Probably someone who bites off more than he can chew. Being a 'company' when you're only one person can be an exhausting and destructive experience.

From personal(close family) experience i hope he realises this and either gets the backing he needs or packs up.

Rich/

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TiredofLife 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 22:28:12
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1691
From: Here

I had hoped that with the backing of Amiga, ACK would have got his act together
and became a bit more professional.
Obviously that hasn't happend.
I don't intend to comment in the future on any threads involving this "company" until he actually releases something.
Wont be holding my breath on that score.
Untrustworthy or unreliable, it's the same end result and not worth any more of my time.

Amiga and ACK, I don't think I was the only one with major doubts.
That saying about two wrongs not making a right spring to mind.
Ah well.

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AP 
Re: ACK proven untrustworthy
Posted on 8-Aug-2007 22:36:25
#20 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 617
From: Vienna/Austria

@RockDemon:
>Being a 'company' when you're only one person can be an exhausting and destructive experience.

That´s true, but no excuse. Nobody forced him to run a company (and make all this announcements). I am a one-man-company, too. Do I act like ACK? No, because I try to run a serious company and handle my customers with respect.

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