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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 11:07:12
#21 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

I'm not sure this is actually relevant for what is Amiga today.

I mean, IIRC Amino (or AInc. if you want) got the licence for the patents... but bought (fully owns, but maybe now it's more correct to say owned) the entire operating system.

So I wonder: assuming I'm right and Acer/Gateway revokes the license, how this would affect OS4?

Not so much, I'm afraid.

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estik 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 13:33:16
#22 ]
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Joined: 13-Oct-2004
Posts: 587
From: Pacos de Ferreira, Portugal

@Turrican3

Quote:


So I wonder: assuming I'm right and Acer/Gateway revokes the license, how this would affect OS4?

Not so much, I'm afraid.


That's it.

Not much.
People are starting to dream on allready.
Lets's stop it for once, ok?

Acer is the leading brand concerning laptops here in Portugal and Spain.
I doubt it if they do know what Amiga is, other than perhaps a mobile games software company

Last edited by estik on 04-Sep-2007 at 01:35 PM.

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 14:58:12
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@all

Maybe this would be easier with a "real world" example.
When this long thread started in October, 2006:
Quote:
Individual Computers Announces Clone-A Project

http://www.amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7004
I searched the page for "kickstart". No hits.

Then, this thread appeared on March 9, 2007:
Quote:
 Individual Computers at CeBit, Clone-A presentation on march 31st

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3641

Gleng to Jens Schoenfeld:
Quote:
Can I ask a potentially stupid question?
Does the user need to provide a kickstart ROM image to use the Clone A, or does it include one? (Or does it not need one?)
If it includes one, doesn't it need to be licensed from AInc?


Jens Schoenfeld to Gleng:
Quote:
The kickstart needs licensing, of course. AInc is already informed, and they are very cooperative.


Flash forward to this thread on April 23, 2007:
Quote:
New Hardware Designs from ACK Software Controls, Inc. and Amiga, Inc.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3721&start=120

Jens Schoenfeld:
Quote:
Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february),


Kickstart?

Then we have Fleecy from a q/a here on AW:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/fleecymoss/index.php?cat_id=20#191

Quote:
10) Asemoon: Will the classic Amiga ROMs ( v1.0-3.1) be included on the AmigaOS4 CD for UAE emulation?

Fleecy: We are looking into this but no decision has been made. It is likely that we will work with Cloanto since they are the only ones with an established and legal product in this area.


Can Amiga Inc. directly license the kickstart to Jens, since he stated this as a need?
If not...why not?
Are Jens issues above and what fleecy stated related or non-related in nature?

#6

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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 15:29:56
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/jan3rd2000.html

Quote:
Here is what was acquired from Gateway:

1. All trademarks logo's etc.
2. All existing inventory of Amiga International
3. All existing licenses.
4. License to All Amiga patents (Gateway still owns the patents, but we are able to use them).
5. All web sites, and registered domain names.
6. The Amiga OS and all that is associated with the OS.
7. The Amiga operation as it exists today.


Assuming everything's true (after all it was an executive update courtesy by Bill McEven ) this sounds like a confirmation of what I've stated before: OS4 should not be affected by this change of ownership.

But you know, never say never with the Amiga.

Last edited by Turrican3 on 04-Sep-2007 at 04:42 PM.

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 15:36:06
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Turrican3

Forgive me. Maybe I misunderstand you.
But how does this apply to either the reality stated by Jens or the statement by Fleecy, which are the only 2 examples I cited?

#6


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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 16:47:15
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@number6

I apologize number6, actually I didn't want to reply directly to you, that post was meant to be a confirmation of my previous one since I hadn't (yet) have a look at amigahistory then.

Greetings

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 16:52:26
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Turrican3

Quote:
I apologize number6, actually I didn't want to reply directly to you, that post was meant to be a confirmation of my previous one since I hadn't (yet) have a look at amigahistory then.


no problem.
btw-I think I answered my own question.
This is not written by a lawyer (thank god!), but a nice place to start to understand who DOES have the right to license. Nice history here back to the Cloanto Commodore license and including tasty bits like Macrosystems having a "complete systems with OS" license.

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/3-122.html

#6

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Pleng 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 16:57:37
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Nov-2005
Posts: 458
From: Unknown

@Turrican3

Quote:

1. All trademarks logo's etc.
2. All existing inventory of Amiga International
3. All existing licenses.
5. All web sites, and registered domain names.
6. The Amiga OS and all that is associated with the OS.
7. The Amiga operation as it exists today.


All of the above seem pretty conclusive

Quote:
4. License to All Amiga patents (Gateway still owns the patents, but we are able to use them).


This is about the only thing Acer could (and I am NOT saying that they WOULD) claim back. If the other items have already been sold to Amiga Inc then nothing can be done about that however if ACER would end up OWNING the trademarks and can provide substantial evidence that Amiga Inc are devaluing the said patents, and therefore pedudicing the stock in their company (shouldn't be too hard...) then I believe they could get an court injunction to prevent Amiga Inc using them any further.

This will not happen though. I believe that Acer will have a certain interest when they finally find out they own the Amiga patents, as I believe all Acer machines come preinstalled with Acer-Arcade (not too sue what this is, some online service I think) and they might think 'hmm... Amiga... maybe we could add to our collection'. They will then see what the hell is going on and, quite resonably, think 'not worth the hassle'

This is all, of course, imho.

I did find it interesting that the details of the acquasition of Amiga assets from Gateway did not appear to include the Amiga name itself. Unless this appears under another section?

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 17:04:39
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Pleng

This is the part I was dwelling on:
Quote:
3. All existing licenses.


Nothing about "new" licenses, just existing ones.

With the info from Jens and Fleecy and then following this to the Cloanto info,
it became clear that Jens had to deal with the situation of an existing license, as opposed to getting a "new" one.

Frankly, the OS4 license situation is easy to understand, compared to the muck of a history shown on the Cloanto site concerning "classic" rights.

#6

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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 17:44:58
#30 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@number6

Quote:
With the info from Jens and Fleecy and then following this to the Cloanto info,
it became clear that Jens had to deal with the situation of an existing license, as opposed to getting a "new" one.


I'm not sure about this: I mean, this seems to me a perfect example of a new license. Unless of course Cloanto has an exclusive, worldwide license for the various Amiga Kickstarts, but I've never heard about this.

Quote:
Frankly, the OS4 license situation is easy to understand, compared to the muck of a history shown on the Cloanto site concerning "classic" rights.


So true... Cloanto is really in a messy situation, but luckily it seems they were able to sort things right, somehow.

Last edited by Turrican3 on 04-Sep-2007 at 05:46 PM.

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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 17:45:13
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@Pleng

Quote:
I did find it interesting that the details of the acquasition of Amiga assets from Gateway did not appear to include the Amiga name itself. Unless this appears under another section?


I assume it is included in "trademarks, logo's, etc."

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 17:51:13
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Turrican3

Quote:
So true... Cloanto is really in a messy situation, but luckily it seems they were able to sort things right, somehow.

Dunno.
This line grabbed me:
Quote:
Sooner or later the situation will inevitably change (due to the expiration of copyrights, or because of the quality and diffusion of AROS, or for other factors)

(other factors)
Considering recent events, I would enjoy hearing from them what they might consider "other factors".

This thread from March mentioning Acer acquiring Gateway (yes, March), is also interesting:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=28455

#6

Last edited by number6 on 04-Sep-2007 at 05:52 PM.

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Rob 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 18:02:30
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@number6

Not mentioned on the Amiga Forever site is that Eyetech had an agreement with Amiga Inc(W) to distribute AmigaOS 3.1 with AmigaOne hardware.

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 18:06:41
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Rob

Quote:
agreement with Amiga Inc(W)

Is there a relationship between an "agreement" and reality when it comes to licensing?

#6

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Rob 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 18:15:32
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@number6

I have an AmigaOne boot install CD which includes 3.1 rom and Amiga hardfile in the UAE archive, if that's what you're asking.

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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 19:44:36
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@number6

I read the phrase this way (requoting in full for clarity, because I think the last part is quite important)

Quote:
Sooner or later the situation will inevitably change (due to the expiration of copyrights, or because of the quality and diffusion of AROS, or for other factors), but until then we need your help to preserve the integrity of Amiga emulation

from the context I guess they mean that someday emulation won't be necessary anymore: for example, with copyright expiration everybody could legally build and sell a Minimig-like including Kickstart... but with no license required.

Or, regarding AROS, they might want to say that, should AROS become a better and more popular/compatible product, it could be useless to improve an emulation software like UAE.

Last edited by Turrican3 on 04-Sep-2007 at 07:45 PM.

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 19:59:44
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Turrican3

Quote:
from the context I guess they mean that someday emulation won't be necessary anymore: for example, with copyright expiration everybody could legally build and sell a Minimig-like including Kickstart... but with no license required.

Reasonable conclusion.

But I'm still trying to ascertain for fact that currently anything OS3x related goes -through- Cloanto, as opposed to being handled directly by AI.
It's not just Jens, you know.
Adam and others contacted them on OS3x and got similar "agreement", and then nothing when it came time to license.
Fleecy is pointing at Cloanto rather strongly in that old q/a.

My problem here is that AI said over and over and over to contact -them- about licensing. So...does that mean AI, in turn makes arrangements with Cloanto FOR the potential developer to get a Cloanto license?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 04-Sep-2007 at 08:01 PM.

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Turrican3 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 20:49:09
#38 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 386
From: Italy

@number6

Quote:
But I'm still trying to ascertain for fact that currently anything OS3x related goes -through- Cloanto, as opposed to being handled directly by AI.
It's not just Jens, you know.
Adam and others contacted them on OS3x and got similar "agreement", and then nothing when it came time to license.
Fleecy is pointing at Cloanto rather strongly in that old q/a.

(first of all, please consider I'm not a native English speaker, so there is always a big chance I will misunderstand almost... well, everything other people write/say )

Having said that, I have (yet) another rough guess which does not necessarily translate into a fact.

I simply think that whatever license Cloanto holds, it is only valid for themselves and it is non-transferable. So I believe that AInc, and AInc only has (or, well, should have) the rights to grant any additional license to other companies.

About that Fleecy statement... my opinion is that he wasn't implying anything special about Cloanto's status, except that since they produce the one and only officially licensed Amiga emulation product on the market and also have a great experience on this matter, they might have helped AInc. in compiling some kind of "cheap" UAE package for the OS4 cd.

Nothing more than that, IMHO.

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 4-Sep-2007 21:19:27
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@Turrican3

Quote:
About that Fleecy statement... my opinion is that he wasn't implying anything special about Cloanto's status, except that since they produce the one and only officially licensed Amiga emulation product on the market and also have a great experience on this matter, they might have helped AInc. in compiling some kind of "cheap" UAE package for the OS4 cd.


Again..very possible.
I just discussed this with others who know the dates better than I.
This package (UAE/OS4/hardfile) is also from the middle 1990s.

#6

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number6 
Re: Acer To Acquire Gateway
Posted on 6-Sep-2007 22:15:41
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11540
From: In the village

@all

Apparently Acer is buying the majority, but not all of Gateway.
Details announced in the last 24 hours:

Quote:
Gateway's board accepted takeover offer, Acer says

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2007/09/06/2003377499

Quote:
Gateway Sells Pro Unit To System Builder MPC

http://www.crn.com/it-channel/201804110

#6

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