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/  Forum Index
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      /  ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
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PosterThread
ne_one 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 1-Oct-2007 19:24:32
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@logicalheart

Quote:
Why would he or anyone work on Amithlon again if Amiga Inc. shuts it down again as an unauthorized product?


This may be the end in itself. I've never clearly understood why Amithlon was pulled but my understanding is that it was the contributors to the IP that killed it, as opposed to Amiga.

Anyone know the story?

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number6 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 1-Oct-2007 20:08:42
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@ne_one

Bernie wrote the story here on AW.
Unfortunately, it's one of the few links I -don't- have handy.
He spoke in terms of negotiation and an extended wait.
Sorry, I don't remember much more than that.

I think I found it...
#845 here

Also some info that might be of interest:
#11 and #26

And another from Bernie on Amithlon:
#48

#6

Last edited by number6 on 01-Oct-2007 at 09:28 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 01-Oct-2007 at 08:29 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 01-Oct-2007 at 08:19 PM.

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logicalheart 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 1-Oct-2007 21:05:08
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Dec-2003
Posts: 694
From: Sandy, Utah. USA

@number6

If someone else does what Amiga Inc. should be doing, Amiga Inc. shuts them down instead of contributing. If anyone thinks Hyperion is the first dispute, think again.

I remember Bill McEwen himself saying years ago their efforts would be focused in two areas. 1) AmigaDE 2) Protecting the Amiga IP.

Their idea of protection has been to stop products and websites.

http://www.amithlon.net/en/amithlon_statement.txt

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number6 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 1-Oct-2007 21:11:55
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@logicalheart

It may be somewhat unfair to take this quote as it stands, but...
Quote:
"..For Amiga Inc. we don't "need" the existing community. Our market is much bigger than just desktops..."- Fleecy Moss, former Amiga Inc. employee. October 1998

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/gateway.html

#6

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Frags 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 1-Oct-2007 23:46:55
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@Frags

Quote:
A shiny new x64 Amithlon is worth more to me than OS4 - I bet I`m not alone either.


But that's just Amithlon right? It would still be running AmigaOS3.1+patches wouldn't it?

So, AmigaForever x64 still isn't up to the mark?


The thing is, AmigaForever is just uae and as nice as it is, Amithlon is a completely different animal. It`s just like running native, check it out and you`ll see :o)

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ne_one 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 0:06:39
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@number6/logicalheart

Thanks for the links.

It's still not clear to me exactly what IP was violated or if the real issue was an underlying squabble between AI and H&P. Either way, it's another perfect example of how politics derailed progress and opportunity.

The bizarre thing about this Amino era is that the players have protected their IP and trademarks so vigorously that you'd swear they acquired the holy grail. At the same time, in nearly a decade they haven't been able to generate any revenue from the precious items that they covet.

Golems.

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Canfod 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 0:16:59
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2005
Posts: 138
From: The WET coast of Canada

@ne_one

I believe this whole "bizarre thing" that's been going on for quite some time now is laughable(or even so damn pitiful it's enough to make ya cry), and can pretty much be summed up with one small phrase: FUBAR

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Manu 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 6:06:11
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@Canfod

You are so right, that's why my hope's with AROS nowdays.
If it takes 10+ years for AROS to catch up then who cares, OS4 will
still be in legal mumbo jumbo.

Last edited by Manu on 02-Oct-2007 at 06:07 AM.

_________________
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hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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Hypex 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 14:36:39
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10308
From: Greensborough, Australia

@logicalheart

Now this I don't understand. Isn't Bill McEwen mainly at the helm of Amiga, Inc? He was keen on Amithlon that I can recall. He even posted mails stating he wanted to get into contact with Bernie, and IIRC it was to get Amiga behind it, not kill it off. H&P did a good job of that.

And since H&P are hogging the source code to 3.9, and wouldn't share it with Amiga, it's no wonder Bernie would say no with H&P hanging around. Another Amiga source code that the writer is doing nothing with and is going to do nothing with because it is written by a company who thought they should be the only one working on an offical NG AmigaOS.

Get over it guys, pass the torch. what worth is this pride? None to us, we are the reason.

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Hypex 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 14:41:20
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10308
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Frags

Quote:
The thing is, AmigaForever is just uae and as nice as it is, Amithlon is a completely different animal. It`s just like running native, check it out and you`ll see :o)


I've seen it, I've met the author! What I am saying is that AF can be used a live boot CD and installed to run of the HD like Amithlon did.

And, BTW, no offence but AF with's UAE engine and as a live CD does more than Amithon ever did. Amithlon stripped out most hardware emulation and added JIT. AF has full hardware emulation and JIT. By that logic, Amithlon should have been made obsolete by now.

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Kronos 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 15:17:36
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2225
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Amithlon has the faster JIT (one of the reasons why AGA went out). it has native drivers or drivers directly talking to the driver-interface on the linux-side for all important things. One doesn't need to load a full blown OS in the background.

Write a pixel in UAE:

WritePixel() ...... P96..... UAEGFX (a framebuffer sitting in memory).....notice host-OS.....host-OS calls it's blitter-function and copies the whole screen into the real GFX-card.


Same in Amithlon:
WritePixel()....P96.....PowerFB(we are allready x86-native at this point)....call into the WritePixel-function of the linux-framebuffer-driver....write pixel in GFX-card-mem.

The 2nd is about as much faster as a good GFX-card is compared to 8Bit-AGA.....

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DiscreetFX 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 15:29:04
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2054
From: Chicago, IL

@Kronos

Computer chips are getting so many cores and display cards are getting so much GPU acceleration and memory I wonder if this will even matter anymore soon. Amithlon was very cool though for what it did. It was a sad day when you couid no longer buy it. I saw it demonstated but when I wanted to make my purchase it was already too late.

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ne_one 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 17:23:08
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
And since H&P are hogging the source code to 3.9, and wouldn't share it with Amiga...


History seems to be repeating itself.

I'm less familiar with the H&P case but I really have to wonder at what point Amiga and Hyperion stopped communicating about deliverables.

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pixie 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 18:55:53
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2676
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@DiscreetFX
And everyday Amithon just gets faster, or eventually it could get faster... it is far optimized then UAE, namely because it doesn't need to run this world and the other. Different approaches for different goals.

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Canfod 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 18:56:41
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2005
Posts: 138
From: The WET coast of Canada

@Hypex

Quote:

Now this I don't understand. Isn't Bill McEwen mainly at the helm of Amiga, Inc? He was keen on Amithlon that I can recall. He even posted mails stating he wanted to get into contact with Bernie, and IIRC it was to get Amiga behind it, not kill it off.


But then hasn't Bill M. said plenty of things about various Amiga subjects that never turned out as he claimed they would.....

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DiscreetFX 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 20:19:43
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 2054
From: Chicago, IL

@pixie

I would love to see Amithlon come back, it was a great product.

_________________
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Frags 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 23:36:25
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@DiscreetFX

The greatest in the Amiga world I`d say. It makes me want to kill myself when I think about where it would be now. x64 optimised JIT, OpenGL and more. You name it The guy actually got things done.

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Rob 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 2-Oct-2007 23:57:04
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6079
From: S.Wales

@Frags

Somewhere in a parallel universe, in 2001, it was decied that X86 was the new pathway for the Amiga, and Amithlon was announced as a transitional stage while the new OS4 was be produced.

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logicalheart 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 3-Oct-2007 0:59:27
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Dec-2003
Posts: 694
From: Sandy, Utah. USA

@Hypex

You have it backwards. H&P did not hog code or kill anything.

H&P gave Bernie the software.
AmigaInc would not allow Bernie to use the software and threatened legal action against him if he continued selling the software.

I also remember AmigaInc doing the same thing to other Amiga related products.
They also threatened some Amiga related websites, which in turn, shut down.
I don't remember what all these were though.

It's a consistent policy and pattern by AmigaInc.
I wish I would have recorded more information over the last few years.
I had no idea AmigaInc would be so bad.

- Lars

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ne_one 
Re: ART is Looking for Amithlon Author
Posted on 3-Oct-2007 3:42:25
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

@logicalheart

Quote:
You have it backwards. H&P did not hog code or kill anything.


I'm not convinced... isn't the underlying problem really the fact that Amiga had an issue with H&P concerning OS3.9 and Amithlon became an unfortunate victim of this squabble?

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