@Plaz

A Software Distribution Agreement is available using the Online Developer Request Form.
There is not much in terms of NDA based agreement in the document, so it's pretty solid.

I would have to say, using AA 2.0 to program some games or applications will probably result in less lines of code than some other applications.

I would say that the SDK 2.0 might end up in Download.com one day, but for now I Amiga Inc wants to work with Amigan's rather than every TDH.

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@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote: @Plaz A Software Distribution Agreement is available using the Online Developer Request Form. There is not much in terms of NDA based agreement in the document, so it's pretty solid. I would have to say, using AA 2.0 to program some games or applications will probably result in less lines of code than some other applications. I would say that the SDK 2.0 might end up in Download.com one day, but for now I Amiga Inc wants to work with Amigan's rather than every TDH.

I have test AA2-SDK to!

To make a simple program with som movingparts and music it's take
about 20 code lines. Same program in windows with C take 10-20 time more lines.
It's very simpel to programming, the have more then 600 funktions, most of them to programming graphics.

It's like a very good SDK.
With a EDI this is a winner!

The compiled program like's to have the virtuell engine built in the compiled program. The program is stand-alone.
You don't need a virtuel stuff to run the program in a computer.

To compile a "x86" program You use (somthing)-x86 in the compiler line and if You compile to a WinMobile You use (somthing)-arm in the compiler line. Easy!

Amiga Inc have a great stuff here!

Last edited by linnar on 15-Feb-2008 at 07:09 AM.

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@linnar

Quote:

To compile a "x86" program You use (somthing)-x86 in the compiler line and if You compile to a WinMobile You use (somthing)-arm in the compiler line. Easy!

Ok I see the same independance as in
to compile for ppc amigaos I'm using ppc-amigaos-gcc
to compile for ppc morphos I'm using ppc-morphos-gcc
to compile for m68k amigaos I'm using m68k-amigaos-gcc

What a new notion !!!

This defeat completely the "run everywhere" notion they tend to promote : if tomorrow they choose to support a new cell phone or a new os (say MacOS x86) then if they don't have sources to recompile everything then the new arch won't benefit the already existing library...

Last edited by abalaban on 15-Feb-2008 at 08:49 AM.

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@abalaban

Well, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that they include the virtual machine in the executable, and your code probably gets turned into byte code, tacked onto the exe somehow, which is read at run time. Not the trickiest thing in the world to do. I doubt it has JIT compiling or anything like that.

This looks very similar to how Hollywood does it doesn't it?

You only need to port the virtual machine to the particular OS which is probably easy, and the port could take advantage of whatever is built into the OS, like say DirectX libraries(?). Porting to OS4 should be straightforward for someone with experience.

One benefit of the embedded VM is that you don't need to distribute it separately like say, the Java VM or .NET. You also don't need to worry about versioning of libraries. The downside may be a bloated exe. What is the size of the exe like?

So is there an IDE included? Is API documentation available?
Is there more to the API than it being a wrapper for the SDL?
Is there anything Amiga-like in the API?

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@BigBentheAussie


Quote:

that they include the virtual machine in the executable,

Yes!

Quote:

This looks very similar to how Hollywood does it doesn't it?

I have don't see Hollywood yet!

Quote:

Porting to OS4 should be straightforward for someone with experience.

In the headercod deep hiden I see the cod have a AMIGA_OS_4 definition...
It's coming viritual eng. to OS4, I think!

Quote:

embedded VM is that you don't need to distribute it separately

correct!

Quote:

What is the size of the exe like

Big! But I compiled with debugstuff.

Quote:

So is there an IDE included?

No! But I think it's coming. This is a betaversion.


Quote:

Is API documentation available?

Yes, and it's very nice!

Quote:

Is there anything Amiga-like in the API?

Yes, some cod I think.
The cod is UNIX-C like.

In UNIX-C You write main()
In AA2-C Tou write aaMain() and so on.

It's very easy to programming. Very mutch is don. You only programming the fun stuff.

The SDK-quality is very high. Amiga Inc have done a very well jobb!

I only wait for a EDI!!


EDIT:
Remeber The SDK is a betaversion.

Last edited by linnar on 15-Feb-2008 at 11:17 AM.

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Well, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that they include the virtual machine in the executable, and your code probably gets turned into byte code, tacked onto the exe somehow, which is read at run time. Not the trickiest thing in the world to do. I doubt it has JIT compiling or anything like that.

Yes that's also what I understood, and what I'm blaming...

Quote:

This looks very similar to how Hollywood does it doesn't it?

Quote:

You only need to port the virtual machine to the particular OS which is probably easy, and the port could take advantage of whatever is built into the OS, like say DirectX libraries(?). Porting to OS4 should be straightforward for someone with experience.

Yes porting the VM is easy but what to do with the already existing and released content ? For example, let's say you are a linux user, under Linux there is a Flashplayer available fro Macromedia, now let's say someone send you a flash animation in the form of a Windows exe (you know flash animation + player bounded into the same file)... What can you do with that ?
Another example let's say you are getting back an old archive from your old Amiga backups, this file is an auto extractible lha file (that is the lha file + the extractor bundled together into a single exe), now you don't have access to an Amiga anymore, but have plenty of lha extractor for Linux, Windows or even MacOS, what can you do ???

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Is there anything Amiga-like in the API?

I forget tihs:
You have funktions for Sprite and Bob's....

But You don't have funktions for buttons, combobox and so on I think (I don't look for it yet).

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

BigBentheAussie wrote: Well, it seems to me, as someone mentioned earlier, that they include the virtual machine in the executable, and your code probably gets turned into byte code, tacked onto the exe somehow, which is read at run time. Not the trickiest thing in the world to do. I doubt it has JIT compiling or anything like that.

No. There's no virtual machine - AA2.0 is just a utility library. Think of it as an SDL equivalent.

@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

A Software Distribution Agreement is available using the Online Developer Request Form.

And maybe I need to find that before I have access to the SDK. I'm logged in now, but I don't see any thing available to download. Or did they remove the content?

I have a page saying "Sorry, there are no posts in Exchange at present. Please choose a different Exchange group from the selector to the right" and when I choose Downloads I have a box that says "DOWNLOADS_NOPURCHASE".

Plaz

@ghauber

Quote:

Built applications are downloaded as native apps for the target device, meaning lower memory footprint, no mucking about with having to have a player, etc.

So, "run anywhere" is just "we have special binary for your platform"? So, how this is anything different from ANY framework? I mean, I had a chance to play with my friend's code yesterday. C++/Qt. It compiles for Linux, Windows and OSX just like that.

Having a byte-code compiled that runs via VM was at least somehow cool. (not ground-breaking, but if VM code would be very portable, it would at least make any sense)

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@opi

Yes, you are right. It seems to me, that the SDK is nothing special. As someone noted, there is C-like API. There are functions for sound, blitting, bobs and sprites. But no classes for buttons etc. So as for me, REBOL3 should be better in that regard - more usefull for occassional apps. AA2 could be better in multimedia, but we will see

But as for VM vs exe. What is the difference? If you have VM, each VM has to exist for each platform anyway. So - you have to count your userbase has particular VM already installed. If not, you are just in the same situation as when app is distributed ancapped in .exe form for the particular platform.

So - what VM can you count on? JAVA, Flash, browser (in general). What I can see as problematic a bit is the method of distribution - can you imagine what will your server antivirus system do to .exe in attachement? VM method might be better here, as application is distributed as some form of data package ...

-pekr-

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

BigBentheAussie wrote: One benefit of the embedded VM is that you don't need to distribute it separately like say, the Java VM or .NET. You also don't need to worry about versioning of libraries. The downside may be a bloated exe. What is the size of the exe like?

Wait a sec. So that would mean each AA2 app you had individually has the entire VM code within it. So the more AA2 apps you collect the more extra space gets eaten up by the same code over and over. Thats dosen't sound very efficient for mobile devices. Bill M. said something about AA2 doing more than Windows could in 1.2MB or something along those lines. Does that mean each app is the app code + 1.2MB each app for the AA2 code?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Feb-2008 at 02:15 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @BigBentheAussie Quote: BigBentheAussie wrote: One benefit of the embedded VM is that you don't need to distribute it separately like say, the Java VM or .NET. You also don't need to worry about versioning of libraries. The downside may be a bloated exe. What is the size of the exe like? Wait a sec. So that would mean each AA2 app you had individually has the entire VM code within it. So the more AA2 apps you collect the more extra space gets eaten up by the same code over and over. Thats dosen't sound very efficient for mobile devices. Bill M. said something about AA2 doing more than Windows could in 1.2MB or something along those lines. Does that mean each app is the app code + 1.2MB each app for the AA2 code?

Maybe he was comparing the size of Hello World only?

So, people have mentioned targets or compilers for x86 and ARM, etc. Is there then a flag for which OS? What does it run on with respect to OSes?

It doesn't seem to have much of a compelling reason to want it right now if it's effectively lost binary platform independence, more like a cross-platform library limited to GFX and sound (well, ok, like SDL)... ?

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@abalaban

Quote:

Yes porting the VM is easy but what to do with the already existing and released content ? For example, let's say you are a linux user, under Linux there is a Flashplayer available fro Macromedia, now let's say someone send you a flash animation in the form of a Windows exe (you know flash animation + player bounded into the same file)... What can you do with that ?

There's nothing stopping them ripping/extracting the bytecode from the platform specific exe they have created, and allowing a stand-alone VM to access it on another platform.

Including the VM in the exe is most likely, IMHO, is packaging providing for ease of usage on the preferred platform only. It wouldn't stop a so called 'AA Player' running on an entirely different platform from accessing the bytecode embedded in the exe and running it with it's own libs.

That's why my question about the size of the exe, particularily something as small as a simple Hello World, would glean how much size is taken by the VM and whether it is a big issue or rather trivial.

What language are they using for development? Is it Java, C++ or some sort of proprietry language.

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

What language are they using for development? Is it Java, C++ or some sort of proprietry language.

I think ghauber confirmed no Java, and that it was C/C++.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 15-Feb-2008 at 03:07 PM.

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@mjg59

Quote:

No. There's no virtual machine - AA2.0 is just a utility library. Think of it as an SDL equivalent.

Woah!! Are you an AA2 dev? Can someone confirm this?
If this is so, then what the hell does it do for you really?
Hmmm.. I guess the upside may be execution speed.

Do you think it is merely a wrapper for SDL?
Perhaps there is a way to check this by testing for a known limitation/bug in SDL.

Do they do anything special in regard to maintaining timing, and scaling on different platforms with AA2, as they must have with AA1?

I remember McEwen in an early AA1 demo pulling a memory stick out of his PDA and inserting it another device like a laptop, and it running straight away. So if it is no longer possible then AA2 has gone backwards in terms of 'digital convergence'(?).

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 15-Feb-2008 at 03:18 PM.

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@fairlanefastback
Quote:

I think ghauber confirmed no Java, and that it was C/C++.

I have coding some in AA2. It's use C. I don't think the compiler work's with C++.

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@-pekr-
Quote:

But no classes for buttons

Ho know, maybe the compiler works very well with MS Win-libs!?
I test'it later.

Last edited by linnar on 15-Feb-2008 at 03:48 PM.

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The only thing "anywhere" about this seems to be that it can "compile anywhere". And then only in theory, since it only compiles for two instruction sets.

What I'm curious about is: what's its selling point?

@soft

Wait to it is testing more than a litle demo. And don't forget it is a betaversion.

AA2 is like AMOS but mutch more easy to programming.

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Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .