@Hypex

Quote:

To match the 030 I think you need to anti-pimp it and take it down a notch!

I don't follow you because although the 030 sets the pace when both machines run at low res, game speed wise it is the 060 RTG that is struggling to keep up with the 030 once it is running in high res mode (and the 030 remains at low res)! Remember the null modem game would not run for any time at all when the 060 was running high res through AGA but once I enabled the PIV modes they gave it a boost and the ability to keep pace with the 030 low res AGA until the tank rush offensive phase of the game where the 060 struggled.

Therefore it IS the 060 that needs to be pimped, any ideas?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Therefore it IS the 060 that needs to be pimped, any ideas?

Sorry I misunderstood. Now this doesn't make any sense. I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help. That is use the PIV mode tool to create a 640x512 mode. And even a 320x256 mode. Both in 8-bit. I don't know if the game assets are optimsed for Amiga resolutions or if it includes chunky graphics suitable for VGA.

So the 030 only has AGA and not setup for RTG? Actually does it have RTG Master installed? Do both do?

I had RTG Master setup on my A1200 years ago that only had AGA. I wonder if this may affect speed using it. But I see you had issues without it.

Apart from that, have you tested a, shock horror, native AGA mode on the 060? High res and low res. If you dare.

@Hypex

Quote:

I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help.

Interesting idea.

Quote:

So the 030 only has AGA and not setup for RTG? Actually does it have RTG Master installed? Do both do?

RTGMaster is required to run the game even if using AGA.

Quote:

Apart from that, have you tested a, shock horror, native AGA mode on the 060? High res and low res. If you dare.

Yes, as previously explained the 060 was dog slow in AGA native mode high res and would constantly fall 2 seconds behind the 030 in low res requiring the automatic 'Network Consistency Failure - Recovering Data' recalibration. Tedious!

Is it your experience that an 060 RTG should be able to keep up despite the doubling of the resolution?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Yes, as previously explained the 060 was dog slow in AGA native mode high res and would constantly fall 2 seconds behind the 030 in low res requiring the automatic 'Network Consistency Failure - Recovering Data' recalibration. Tedious!

Sounds like it. I wonder if anything else is going on? It really doesn't make any sense. Nothing in the WB/Startup that would disturb the system?

How would the drives compare between them? Shouldn't matter once the game loads as Amiga games don't tend to reload assets after play starts. Does the game have any CD audio or need the game CD in the drive?

Could do a speed test on your drives. I like DiskMonTools as it's simple to perform a speed test with it. Works with OS4!

Quote:

Is it your experience that an 060 RTG should be able to keep up despite the doubling of the resolution?

It should! A full Zorro 3 card or proper video card should have the full bandwidth to keep up easily. I've used a PicassoIV and now a CyberVision with my 060 A4000D. But my game testing has been limited. I haven't done much but test some 3d games. I don't think I have Napalm here but I do have Earth 2140. Strangely after a read on the case and box I see no list of requirements. It must work on an unexpanded A500 then!

If it needs RTG Master that's not a good sign for AGA, usually. A game should work out of the box. It seems okay on AGA though. So I wonder if some setting is messed up that's stopping it from writing directly to the graphic card through the driver? Something confusing it into thinking it needs to convert graphics.

Could try a screen mode speed test.

@Hypex

Quote:

Sorry I misunderstood. Now this doesn't make any sense. I wonder if setting it to a screen mode based on the same resolution would help. That is use the PIV mode tool to create a 640x512 mode. And even a 320x256 mode. Both in 8-bit. I don't know if the game assets are optimsed for Amiga resolutions or if it includes chunky graphics suitable for VGA.

Ok, created a 640x512 mode with Picasso96Mode and will see what happens. I understand that there might be some scaling behind the scenes slowing down the 640x480 high res mode. Point taken

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Hypex

I can't get the PIV to accept 640x512 resolution as when I try and save / reboot for it to take effect it reverts to 640x480! I have experimented with trying 640x480 interlaced and running from my SD card rather than the hard drive. Both seem to make the 060 RTG run faster though I didn't finish the test because the 030 crashed with a software failure! Always the way that it remains stable until your testing the other machine!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

comment on last comment without reading the first, never mind…

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Aug-2020 at 06:32 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Aug-2020 at 06:32 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Hypex

Ok, got it now regarding a 640x512 P96 Screenmode:

THIS guide really helped in creating new P96 screenmodes! I just need to test its performance now!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Hypex

Yes, victory! The mixture of the 640x512 PIV mode and loading off my SCSI2SD V6 SD card partition rather than the old SCSI hard drive seemed to help. One 'Network Consistency Failure' message in the whole game and it recovered straight away! I love it when a plan comes together

The main problem now is how much chip mem the game uses up on the AGA 030 system which can lead to some crashing. Reducing the Workbench to 2 colour and low res prior to loading the game seems to save enough to avoid most problems. Workbench can still suffer a software failure in the background sometimes (doesn't affect the game though once 'suspend' is selected rather than reboot).

My son nearly beat me again and although I was helping him I was concentrating on my tactics as well! He's an Esports star in the making if he keeps this up At least he can say his interest in computers started on the Amiga!

Thanks again for pushing me in the right direction with what was likely causing these issues! As I say, there is no guidance on RTG screenmodes etc in the Napalm manual.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

My son wanted to play this again so we booted up the two machines tonight! I still get the dreaded "Network Consistency Failure, Recovering Data..." message when the game enters the final battle phase! It's sad to revert to Low Res on the 060 PIV setup to avoid this (though that works solidly). I must be pretty close to the machines being able to sustain this asynchronous Low Res AGA vs High Res RTG network play for the majority of the base building phase to work ok?!

Maybe a purchase of the new ZZ9000 graphics card would allow the 060 RTG High Res to sustain the game speed of the 030 AGA Low Res to allow the 2-player game to progress? I really think that currently the 060 PIV lags behind (due to the higher res and displaying more of the action/moving projectiles etc) and can't catch up when the action ramps up!

Any advice or someone with experience of network play with this game? I know it would be rock solid in low res on both machines but the high res on the 060 is a much better experience plus gives me an overview of the battlefield without the need of a radar which helps me to help the children learn and work out where every thing is on the battlefield! At least that's my excuse for taking the faster machine

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jan-2021 at 09:25 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 08-Jan-2021 at 09:24 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Warp1260 if you dont mind taking the 060 of your board. needs be rev5 or 6 I think.

http://www.amigawarp.eu/1_5_warp1260.html?a=warp1260-photos

_________________
A1200 ACA1232 128MB Indivison MkIICr
Elbox empty Power Tower
RPi3 Emulating C64 ZX Atari PS BBC
Wii with Amiga emulation
Vampire v4 SA

@g01df1sh

So you agree that it could be that a 50Mhz 060 with PIV isn’t quite man enough? It’s a big box Amiga so I’d have to wait for the Warp4060 and it’ll be pricey!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

It’s so annoying to be limited to low res on both machines but that’s the only way to get a stable game on anything other than two 060 RTG machines I would guess! Why you can’t play with one low res machine versus a high res machine I’ll never know Xtreme Racing handles the discrepancy no problem with no network consistency problems!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

It’s almost best to play the construction phase of a level low res vs high res until the game hangs to get the level layout clear in your head and then replay with low res vs low res so that you can complete the two player game to the end!

.... crazy what we do for love of these machines and these old games

Also, the tankers can easily misbehave going to and fro from between the oil rigs and refineries. I miss the carryalls in Dune 2. Sometimes it’s so bad you have to just build an additional refinery closer so that you don’t have to micro manage the oil tankers back and fore to the main base!

Still, somehow the game has a lot of charm and is in some ways more fun than the extremely well balanced StarCraft 2 on modern platforms. I also prefer the aesthetic of Napalm to the otherwise near perfect C&C: Red Alert 2!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

The main problem now is how much chip mem the game uses up on the AGA 030 system

You could try using FBlit or the native 96 driver to save chipram. It may also speed the things up a little although probably not enough to run in high res on the 68030.

http://aminet.net/package/util/boot/FBlit

https://aminet.net/package/driver/moni/Native

@Rob

Thanks. I don’t expect to be able to run high res on the 030 but why isn’t the game optimised for high res vs low res play? Surely it’s just a case of locking the game speed to something both machines can sustain whatever resolution they are running?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Thread

How well does the high-res mode of Napalm work with the V1200 Vampire board? Has anyone seen how a Vampire behaves in two-player mode in null-modem link with a regular 060 RTG Classic 'Miggy?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Unless a V1200 has its own serial port it would be the same slow stock serial speed, way less than300Kb/s.

Chris

@QuikSanz

Yeah, but the 080 CPU and RTG SAGA graphics would keep pace with a real 060 RTG with full compatibility ok? I’m not aware what % of compatibility with 060 and RTG applications and games that the Vampire promises?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

I wonder if the 030 machine would work better if it had some kind of serial card? If Napalm can use a different serial device. Modern software should.