@Minuous
Quote:

I wonder if he would release the sources, it might save yoodoo2 a fair amount of work?

I don't think he would: Jamie's stuff is very high quality and professional. There's a very good chance he'd want to use his work in future projects or, heaven forbid, is actually using them on Amiga Inc sponsored projects. Also, for my own project, I'll be recycling a fair amount of my other app, MindSpace (OS4 only atm), so I suppose I could release a very early version in the next day or so.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@yoodoo2

"so I suppose I could release a very early version in the next day or so."

Easy now, we're not used to deadlines like that

_________________

The Reaction classes in OS4 have had quite a lot of functionality added to them that was not present in the 3.9 versions of the same. I know, because i've added quite a lot of it myself :)

So, in order to create a GUI maker that takes full advantage of OS4 Reactions is going to be difficult to use under 3.9

Simon

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo

Right.

Well consider most developers who want to develop out then...

No OS3.9 compatibility, no fun.

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@DBAlex

So what are you saying here? That OS4.x shouldn't be updated because it breaks compatibility with a 10 year old previous version?

Hanging on to this kind of level of compatibility would mean seriously holding OS4.x back, is that what you want?

Simon

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo

No... What i'm saying is if you want people to develop for AOS at all then you have to allow people to develop on whats available... whats available is OS3.9.

You either let them develop their app for OS3.9 now and enable it to be ported to OS4 later or... well... you just have people who have AmigaOne's & Bliz/Cyberstorm PPC's developing... Which is... How many?

Aghh, nevermind.

Last edited by DBAlex on 02-Aug-2008 at 12:37 AM.

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@rigo

Also why would I or anyone else care what happens to OS4 at the moment?

For all I/we know, I/we may never be able to run it anyway... Its just a fscking dangling carrot for most people.

Last edited by DBAlex on 02-Aug-2008 at 12:36 AM.

_________________
A1200, 68060/64MB/1.2GB/WiFi/AGAtoCRT/OS3.9 Pegasos I, G3 600Mhz/512/9200SE/80GB WinUAE, Ryzen 5 2400G/Vega11, 8GB DDR4, 256GB SSD,Win 10 Pro x64 Amiga Forever !

@DBAlex

Cool down, man... You´re right that the user base (and even more the developer base) of OS4 lacks some mass. Nonetheless, it´s a question of time (maybe on long term only) when OS4 will become the OS with the bigger user base (and bigger developer base).

@rigo

The problem I see is, that, for now, all is done to support a very tiny developer base developing software for OS4 on an open source software porting approach and give them more or less useful and very tiny tools for native development only. This will surely not lead to an extensive native development and furthermore not to a solid market for professional native development in a medium term (even more because the number of available hardware systems is flat zero atm.).

It won´t do better if this tiny developer base is held to exclusively support OS4 by the strange argument that the OS3.x base is more than ten years old. In the moment, OS4 is some very exclusive toy for the very few lucky people who managed to buy an A1 right on time, nothing more. The OS3.x user and developer base is, despite the fact that OS4 is much more modern, much larger in scale, so it should be, in all cases, co-supported for the time where OS4 is clearly no replacement for the OS3.x systems used actually.

Regarding GUI development tools, where is the problem to support the OS3.9 ReAction? Have a look at the ReActor tool, how configurability could be managed, so that OS3.9 developers can work with the same tools the few OS4 developers might use. Where is the problem to develop these tools for 68k first? OS4 has a very fast emulator for this and most OS functions of OS3.x are quite the same in function and usefulness and 68k software works very fine there.

I would say, first build up a base of really useful development toolkits for native development basing on 68k software with regard to 68k machines, and when OS4 reaches a state where it can serve as a mass replacement for the OS3.x systems still in use, modernize these tools accordingly.

Well, that would need a carefully planned path for future OS4 versions, too, but I think it would be a good idea to do so, as the current "plan" seems to be a bit clueless what to do next... dropping all native functions in favour of a more unixish kernel or build upon what is reached until now? I would say that the latter option would be the best way, but this is perhaps not the easiest one.

Regards

@yoodoo2

you have already realized thomas' GUIDesigner on os4depot?

byebye...

_________________
Michael Merkel
(Michael.Merkel@gmx.net Home)
Member of Amiga-Freunde Pfalz, OS4 Welt

@whose

Until Amiga Inc is dead and buried, OS4 will never have any sort of success. They've tried to stop something like 10 different attempts at bringing out new hardware by now. And have succeded at most of them. Had they approved of even half of them we would have all sorts of options now. But no, they #### up everything they touch.

And they're actually claiming that Eyetech didn't have a license to run it on the AmigaOne either. Can you actually believe it?

So I fully agree with at least one thing DBAlex writes. OS4 is just a dangling carrot for most people. No reason to take it seriously until it supports at least a couple of more platforms.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

In general we agree, that OS4 is no real life option atm. Nonetheless, I don´t believe that the AInc. shell game will last forever, that´s all. It´s just a question of time, and during this time other options should be used.

But IMHO that´s no reason to forget about OS4 completely.

Regards

@yoodoo2

Quote:

yoodoo2 wrote: @Minuous Quote: I wonder if he would release the sources, it might save yoodoo2 a fair amount of work? I don't think he would: Jamie's stuff is very high quality and professional. There's a very good chance he'd want to use his work in future projects or, heaven forbid, is actually using them on Amiga Inc sponsored projects. Also, for my own project, I'll be recycling a fair amount of my other app, MindSpace (OS4 only atm), so I suppose I could release a very early version in the next day or so.

If you can get an early version out that soon, go for it.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@MichaelMerkel
Quote:

you have already realized thomas' GUIDesigner on os4depot?

I think he posted that to OS4 depot after he made a "I'm already doing that" post earlier in this thread. It's a good start, with a number of key classes supported.

My own effort is not as far advanced as that perhaps, but is meant to be a little more wysiwyg and drag-n-drop*. A different approach to the same problem. Oh, and MindGUI spews out enough code to compile a full application if needed (although yet again, I make no great claims for the quality of the code...)

Edit: *hopefully the user will be able to just draw/add their features without worrying about H/V layout nonsense. The magic of MindGUI will sort it all out. Possibly...

Last edited by yoodoo2 on 02-Aug-2008 at 09:25 PM.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@yoodoo2

Quote:

yoodoo2 wrote: @MichaelMerkel Quote: you have already realized thomas' GUIDesigner on os4depot? I think he posted that to OS4 depot after he made a "I'm already doing that" post earlier in this thread. It's a good start, with a number of key classes supported. My own effort is not as far advanced as that perhaps, but is meant to be a little more wysiwyg and drag-n-drop*.

is reacton in the meantime supporting drag'n'drop? with os4.0 it is not afaik.

byebye...

_________________
Michael Merkel
(Michael.Merkel@gmx.net Home)
Member of Amiga-Freunde Pfalz, OS4 Welt

@MichaelMerkel

I mean that the MindGUI editor will be drag-n-drop(ish), in that you'll be able to pick up a template Reaction object from the sidebar and drop it onto the interface being developed. In the same way as you can pick up an object in MindSpace and move it around your drawing.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@yoodoo2

Am I to assume that this application of yours will require MindSpace to function, or is it a stand-alone designer?

Simon

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@rigo
It's based on MindSpace code, but will be distributed as a separate (and free) app.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@yoodoo2

Quote:

My own effort is not as far advanced as that perhaps, but is meant to be a little more wysiwyg and drag-n-drop*. A different approach to the same problem. Oh, and MindGUI spews out enough code to compile a full application if needed (although yet again, I make no great claims for the quality of the code...) Edit: *hopefully the user will be able to just draw/add their features without worrying about H/V layout nonsense. The magic of MindGUI will sort it all out. Possibly...

Web authoring systems, like KompoZer, have various views on the edited web page. It would be nice to see something similar in MindGUI, e.g. a drag-n-drop editor view, GUI objects displayed as a hierachical list, and a GUI preview view.

Last edited by jap on 04-Aug-2008 at 03:38 AM.
Last edited by jap on 04-Aug-2008 at 03:37 AM.
Last edited by jap on 04-Aug-2008 at 01:39 AM.
Last edited by jap on 04-Aug-2008 at 01:37 AM.