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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
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Kicko 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 16:59:33
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5008
From: Sweden

My A1G4XE takes 28seconds from powerswitch on to full WB.
softreset takes 8 seconds.

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neonlite 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 17:54:37
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Oct-2004
Posts: 100
From: Croatia

if AOS4.x goes PS3....
then it will be an easy PPC ride into the future...

imagine the potential userbase...
imagine the potential AOS4.x development...
imagine the adherent potential desktop PPC userbase development...

if Sony want's to sell PS3 as a computer solution then PPC Linux is not quite the right choice...too complicated for the average PS3 user

sth. like AOS4.x on the other hand, would do the trick for Sony's plans with Joe Average...
it's PPC,it's the best fit for PS3 operating system, and it just need's some minor(?) slicking up...

wouldn't be surprised if Hyperion contacted Sony, and is doing a PS3 conversion right now. does not mean they'd have a contract yet, but could mean some kind of alpha working OS4.x on PS3...



although strange Sony themselves didn't do the planned OS on PS3 job...they have all that it takes...money that is

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Leo 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 18:02:48
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1595
From: Unknown

Quote:

@Leo

Why do you think a closed source OS wouldn't get access PS3 to its fullest? Don't games take advantage of it, doesn't Sony have a royalty on each game sale?

Because Sony wouldn't get money on the software run on that OS... right now Sony gets money on anything sold for the playstation... If someone was to release something good enough to compete with their games people would buy their games anymore: what do you think ? :)
No matter how open you think they are, they won't let you take control of the software ;)

And the soundchip of the SNES was only a Sony chip (very, very good btw...), so what ?
In 1994, Amiga was already behind any anything else in terms of hardware... Why do you think no one big company such as Sony, HP,... buy it ? and it ended up in nothing... ?

You all think Amiga was above anything... Maybe some would have bought and used it since 1994 if it was the case, don't you think ? MacOS was still using cooperative multitasking (and wouldn't have real multitask until 2000...), Windows 95 wasn't released yet... Linux, well, guess the first versions of the kernel were just released ;)
If the Amiga OS was so good, and beyond anything else I'm wondering why no one bought it... Now about the hardware, same question: why didn't Sony buy CBM's hardware projects/patents ? Maybe because the PSX was already above anything Amiga could do by then ? ...

Guess it's time to wake up ! :)

I like the Amiga. But it's not beyond anything else, and hasn't been since decades !

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Hondo 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 18:06:13
#44 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1345
From: Denmark

The black box mode on:

Sony/IBM and whoever owns the amiga rights makes a deal about a "new" amiga. They use next generation hardware to make a "black box" with a illuminated boing ball in the center. The box should be very rough kinda like the ones used in aeroplanes.

Maybe they make a few modifications to the hw design to make it more suitable for desktop use, and expandability. They prepare everything right down to the smallest detail, including essential office/productivity software and launch a big marketing campaign starting at one of the major shows.

They use the slogan "Remember when computing was fun?...now take it serious!!" - within 1 year they have sold 1 million black boxes, and writes history just like macintosh did with their iMac brand. One year after they launch the "Biggie Blackie Box".......hahahaha

The black box mode off:

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MikeB 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 18:09:10
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@neonlite

Quote:
if AOS4.x goes PS3....
then it will be an easy PPC ride into the future...

imagine the potential userbase...
imagine the potential AOS4.x development...
imagine the adherent potential desktop PPC userbase development...


IMO it would significantly break down important consumer barriers.

1) Widely and cheap available hardware (high resolution on modern HDTVs!).
2) No more buying a platform specifically for running AmigaOS4.x alone. The platform has many of the best games and many other dual functionality capabilities like playing Blu-Ray movies, PlayTV option, etc..
3) Good global hardware support from Sony (no more hardware company going belly up worries).

AmigaOS4.x may require an OEM approach though, which would still mean Amiga dealers will be able to acquire hardware far more easily and be more easily sold to a wider audience. If AmigaOS4 can be sold as standalone or even be distributed on the PSN, that could have an amazing impact on the Amiga community.

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OldFart 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 18:25:39
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2920
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@MikeB

Quote:
2) No more buying a platform specifically for running AmigaOS4.x alone. The platform has many of the best games and many other dual functionality capabilities like playing Blu-Ray movies, PlayTV option, etc..

Can you imagine the mental crisis MS gets into, as they reportedly have Amiga Inc. as a 'partner' of some sorts and now hear/read that the Amiga's OS runs on one of their toughest competitor's gear?

Me chuckling...


OldFart

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The_Editor 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 18:31:54
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7628
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@OldFart

Smells of Win to me !!

hehe

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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 19:10:02
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2657
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Leo
You know there was a time where multitasking were praised as going against productivity... you might have the best technology and still lag behind..

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 20:47:36
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3403
From: Unknown

@MikeB

Nobody have contacted Sony or SCEI if they would be interested?

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MikeB 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 21:27:37
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
Nobody have contacted Sony or SCEI if they would be interested?


I have and I handed the feedback I got to Hyperion and Amiga Inc at the time.

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billt 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 21:35:38
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3100
From: Maryland, USA

There's also a link on digg.com to the ars article.

Forget the PS3, give me a freakin laptop darnit.

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MikeB 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 21:42:06
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@billt

Someone already created a Do-It-Yourself PS3 laptop, a future slimline PS3 will allow for much more elegant laptop re-designs.

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billt 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 22:00:15
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3100
From: Maryland, USA

@MikeB

I'd really rather have a proper laptop design that has battery life in mind as the whole system is put together, not a one-off hack. Not even if it's a good one-off hack.

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Stephen_Robinson 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 22:22:41
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

@billt

There's only one company that made PPC laptops, they also made compact desktop computers that a OS4 port was being produced.

well, was anyway.

Last edited by Stephen_Robinson on 23-Sep-2008 at 10:25 PM.
Last edited by Stephen_Robinson on 23-Sep-2008 at 10:24 PM.

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MikeB 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 22:35:18
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@billt

How about if a standalone version would run on older PPC Apple laptops as well? Personally I don't see much of a market considering required investment to design a laptop specifically to run AmigaOS4.x.

Maybe in the very distant future if everything goes extremely well for the Amiga community.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 23-Sep-2008 23:42:54
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11062
From: Norway

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:
"Hyperion has done the same with the new memory manager they built for OS 4.1: memory protection is there, but the user can't turn it on."

Hmmm? If correct, they've not told anyone have they?


This incorrect, the review is written by some one whit no programming background or understanding of how the memory system works,

First of all memory protection is not user controlled feature, its a feature that only software developers can control and decide if should be used or not, the developer ask the OS for type of memory they need or think works the best for the operation application is about to do.

for example it good idea to put pictures in videoram.
and information that needs to be shared in shared memory,
information that does not need to be shared in private memory or virtual memory.

Private, shared and virtual are new memory types, older programs will never ask for new memory types.
old programs only know old memory types chip,fast,public,kick, old program will fail if this memory types where protected so they are not protected and never will be.

AmigaOS4 protects constant values, it protect the new private memory types, it protects zero page, it protects none allocated memory.

There is also an error in the review about virtual memory, the review says applications can use virtual whit out knowing it exist, thats not true, virtual memory is as a pecial memory type that can not be used whit in forbids, the application most ask for this type of memory for it to be used, and developer most take special care when using it.

The correct thing to say about correct memory system is that its limited memory protection, it protects new stuff, but does not protect old stuff, its not always possible to protect memory because applications expects access to screen, task, bitmaps, dos, windows and any other public structure you know, its paradox that application that runs on OS can protects it self better then then the OS kickstart/kernel can protect it self.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Sep-2008 at 11:47 PM.

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Rogue 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 24-Sep-2008 12:19:29
#57 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Concerning AmigaOS 4.1 on the PS 3:

This was a misunderstanding. We did look at supporting the PS 3, but at this time it isn't really feasible. There are protection mechanisms that prevent the guest os from using accelerated graphics and all available SPE's. There currently is no AmigaOS 4.x on the PS 3.

The main idea is to be able to run on a CELL CPU, not necessarily on a PS 3. Support for other CELL based platforms is a different story.

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madmalkav 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 24-Sep-2008 12:34:02
#58 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 88
From: Unknown

@Rogue

Thanks for the clarification Rogue. We also thought about that limitations and therefore we especulated about the "getting a Sony license" issue. It's good to know how things are really -no matters is not good news-.

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 24-Sep-2008 12:34:16
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@MikeB

Quote:

2) No more buying a platform specifically for running AmigaOS4.x alone. The platform has many of the best games and many other dual functionality capabilities like playing Blu-Ray movies, PlayTV option, etc..


I remember arguments that if Amiga/MorphOS was ported to x86 it would compete against Windows and die.

Last edited by itix on 24-Sep-2008 at 12:36 PM.

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RodTerl 
Re: AmigaOS 4.1 review on ArsTechnica
Posted on 24-Sep-2008 12:55:08
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 6-Sep-2004
Posts: 589
From: Rossendale

Its a real pity, that AOS couldnt be used By Sony.. for the Hypervisor in the PS3.

That way, AOS would have full access to the system, and every other system would be.. limited?.. byt the .. reduced functionality?.. of AOS?

Its difficult for me to put into words.. but does a hypervisor esentially just do data server functions, and as itself, doesnt need graphics, sound handling, just passing the calls through permitted, and blocking those restricted, not understood?

That wouldve been one hell of a machine.

Pity Sony screwed it up trying to follow Microsofts example yet again. 8( Just like most everyone else infact.. even Linux.

How can Linux be like Microsoft?.. If they dont like it, they can code their own version.. Microsoft thinking, just different values.

RodTerl

AOS.. proprietry core, anyone can code anything they like to plug in, or even patch replace ROM functions. Just need FlashROM support.. after all, PCs have finally caught up with EFI?

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