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      /  Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
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Fab 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 13:13:44
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2004
Posts: 1178
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

OWB (just like WebKit) lets you use (or implement) several backends for the different parts. The "problem" with the CURL network backend is that it can be unresponsive during DNS resolution, unlike Soup (glib-dependant network layer used in the GTK port) or Win32/OSX network layers. In the MorphOS port, i was at least able to move the whole network stuff to a dedicated thread, which hides this unpleasant blocking effect.

As for the network/download speed, the issue with OWB AROS may also be related to the AROS stack/drivers. With OWB MorphOS, i can locally download http/ftp files at 9MB/s on my 100Mb/s network, so it's rather correct.

In any case, with OWB just like with FireFox, you can scroll at bottom way before the page is fully loaded, but it of course depends on the port and its potential flaws.

Last edited by Fab on 09-Jul-2009 at 01:14 PM.

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Zardoz 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 13:34:12
#62 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
yes, but a webkit engine make no full browser, there need a clever refresh that draw a page as soon as possible, do threaded internet access without polling, so text can read and it can scroll to buttom fast before all pictures or data is load.and thats called as safari or chrome, the whoole thing.


You are not getting this. You asked where the OWB binary for Windows is. What I mean is that one was not needed hence one was not made. There already are a few webkit browsers out on Windows so why would they make another one based on OWB, which is geared towards embedded usage?

Quote:
I see OWB not on OS4 or MOS, i see only on AROS actual version, and here time before page text is load and its possible to scroll full down need 3-4* longer than on safari or firefox.bit full page load is nesar same time.but for usability its always good to show page as soon as possible before all images are load.

I think thats because safari or firefox on windows use threads to update render, during wait for inet data etc...
(i have only a single core CPU)

so i still think a firefox is usefull or change OWB to be full threaded as safari maybe help.

i also ask several time to see video, how OWB show a big page for example www.reuters.com go to a link and press page back button.

but no video see


I do find it interesting that you always assume that whatever problems the AROS version of something has is in all other versions.

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afxgroup 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 13:43:46
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2004
Posts: 1968
From: Taranto, Italy

@bernd_afa

my sources was really old. but if you want i can take all my sources even if you will not see many amiga related parts since it was based on X11 libs.
i'll try to put them on my site and i'll post a link here

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Tomppeli 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 14:03:14
#64 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@multiple persons
Quote:
You asked where the OWB binary for Windows is.

This is from release notes of Galeking:
Quote:
Platform Graphics :
win32 ( not yet public )

So I guess somebody is working on winblows version (possibly).

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 14:28:10
#65 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@bernd_afa

Quote:
sorry, maybe my reaction of this bad attack from rogue was little hard, but i dont like when rogue is attacking me with that words and want tell i want only 68k and no other systems.I release sources to everyone and i help also if
somebody want run it on other systems.i always told i see AOS should work together as on Linux.But when rogue write this


And I quoted his rudeness in a message to all in this thread to cut it out and even quoted TOS back as I saw Rogue getting close to the line if not over it. But if we go back a step some of what you said could be seen as a bait/troll. So I was trying to nicely move you both (and anyone else) back into being mutually respectful.

I and the other mods don't get paid to be mods. And *all* members are people with other responsibilities and pressures in this world. What is expected from everyone, and I include Rogue in this, is that if something really ####es you off that much, hit the AR button, save what you wrote in response in a text file and don't rush to post it. Give yourself some time to see how the AR is dealt with, and/or to see with a clearer head if what you wrote crosses the line or not, you'll probably often find with some time, that even if it did not cross the line, that at the least you'll probably want to re-phrase it some when you are no longer heated, and thats just better for everyone usually.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 09-Jul-2009 at 02:29 PM.

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Rogue 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 15:35:32
#66 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
does this mean the friedens begin on firefox, give up and then you continue, give up and then begin with OWB ?


We started a port WAAAY back on 68k (NSPR) but gave up because OS 4 came in and had no time anymore. Then later we did a quick port of that to OS 4, partially as a testbed for pthreads.

Quote:
and also the friedens have not use pthread and write their own NSPR Implementation ?


And here was I thinking I had explained it. The NSPR port DOES use pthreads, it just doesn't use the standard Linux implementation that uses a mixture of local and global threads.

Quote:
everybody know that new written code can contain more bugs and problems so its always a good idea to use libs that run well with many other prpograms to see that this lib (pthread) can not cause problems.


I thought I had explained that as well. I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately it isn't. In the case of the threading, it was pthread_kill IIRC. By pthread standard pthread_kill is optional, and if implemented has to be able to kill a thread at a sychronization point only. There was some problem in the way that it was used in NSPR, I can't remember the specifics, but this and the signalling made it easier to reimplement the threads.

Quote:
Your post is only a bad bash.
Wy you not just answer Firexofox on OS4 use npt pthread, we have written a own OS4 nsdp here is the link, look yourself.


No it wasn't. If your English isn't good enough to understand my post, then I am sorry. I explained it again, above, read it, and if you don't understand it ask someone to translate it for you. This isn't meant as an offense, really, but your posts are more than a bit difficult to read, and you apparently don't understand it very well either; I am surprised that you base your speculations on that.

*Edit: corrected typo

Last edited by Rogue on 09-Jul-2009 at 04:07 PM.

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Rogue 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 16:06:01
#67 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@afxgroup

Quote:
my sources was really old.


It also contains quite a number of bugs. In the meantime, it runs about 70% of the tests successfully.

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afxgroup 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 16:12:48
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2004
Posts: 1968
From: Taranto, Italy

@Rogue

well, maybe..
I didn't test them so deeply so maybe they were bugged..

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bernd_afa 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 16:45:37
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@afxgroup

Yes please, make a link available of current firefox source you compile maybe this problem can solve and a firefox come to amiga systems.

@Rogue

>And here was I thinking I had explained it. The NSPR port DOES use pthreads, it just doesn't >use the standard Linux implementation that uses a mixture of local and global threads.

No you not write this before that OS4 firefox use pthreads.you write this only in later post, but not very clear.

your response was i write FUD.but with your above sentence it seem correct what i say, firefox OS4 use pthread.if this is now a standard Linux or a modified version doesnt matter.but you write i write fud.and thats wrong.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29160&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#499585


""""
rogue wrote
FYI, and this single line shows you don't know what you are talking about, Firefox uses NSPR for threads. How you implement threads in NSPR is up to you; BeOS uses native BThreads. So, thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. It saves me the hassle of refuting the other FUD you posted; you managed to disqualifiy yourself nicely.
""""

and btw on a good OS its always the case when blender and firefox use ptrhread, they use the same version.

so its really bad that you bash again me, when i information here, that blender with pthreads have problems on OS4, so its possible that this can happen on firefox too.

is it now right firefox and blender on OS4 use diffrent pthread ?

Last edited by bernd_afa on 09-Jul-2009 at 04:57 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 09-Jul-2009 at 04:56 PM.

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bernd_afa 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:10:20
#70 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@afxgroup

Yes please, make a link available of current firefox source you compile maybe this problem can solve and a firefox come to amiga systems.

@Rogue

>And here was I thinking I had explained it. The NSPR port DOES use pthreads, it just doesn't >use the standard Linux implementation that uses a mixture of local and global threads.

No you not write this before that OS4 firefox use pthreads.you write this only in later post, but not very clear.

your response was i write FUD.but with your above sentence it seem correct what i say, firefox OS4 use pthread.if this is now a standard Linux or a modified version doesnt matter.but you write i write fud.and thats wrong.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29160&forum=2&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#499585


""""
rogue wrote
FYI, and this single line shows you don't know what you are talking about, Firefox uses NSPR for threads. How you implement threads in NSPR is up to you; BeOS uses native BThreads. So, thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. It saves me the hassle of refuting the other FUD you posted; you managed to disqualifiy yourself nicely.
""""

i dont know wy, but last part get lost.here its again.i hope its nice enough.

so its really bad that you bash again me, when i information here, that blender with pthreads have problems on OS4, so its possible that this can happen on firefox too.

and on other OS when firefox and blender use pthread, the use same pthread libs

but on OS4, is it correct that blender and firefox use diffrent pthread implementation ?

Last edited by bernd_afa on 09-Jul-2009 at 05:18 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 09-Jul-2009 at 05:18 PM.

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Rogue 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:12:16
#71 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
so its really bad that you bash again me, when i information here, that blender with pthreads have problems on OS4, so its possible that this can happen on firefox too.


Can a moderator please lock this thread?

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Zardoz 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:22:35
#72 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
i dont know wy, but last part get lost.here its again.i hope its nice enough.

so its really bad that you bash again me, when i information here, that blender with pthreads have problems on OS4, so its possible that this can happen on firefox too.

and on other OS when firefox and blender use pthread, the use same pthread libs

but on OS4, is it correct that blender and firefox use diffrent pthread implementation ?


I will have to ask you either to either post something on topic or stay away from this thread. Your agenda against non-68k OSes and OS4 really has nothing to do with Amizilla and whatever stuff you post about NSPR and pthreads are completely and utterly irrelevant, the parties involved have already said they worked around them. Whether you like the implementation and whether you find that it should not have to be done is a different story and completely off topic.

If you want to discuss pthreads start a pthreads, ahem, thread, any further posts on that subject in this one will be removed.

Thank you.

Last edited by Zardoz on 09-Jul-2009 at 05:23 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:27:04
#73 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA

@Rogue & @bernd_afa

Take it to PM guys (though my advice is drop it all together). You have both gone off-topic at this point.

@thread

Ants gave us an update. I think the question of the thread has been answered, we are not going to see Amizilla soon unfortunately.

Now I'm going to give this a chance (on a short leash) to get back on- topic in case anyone has any pertinent responses they may want to make in public to Ants so the community is in the loop to any ideas. This way we can branch off into a new thread possibly if we can manage to be positive and forward looking on this project. But if it does not go that way, the thread will get locked in short order.

And for the record, I'm on the Amizilla mailing list, and Rogue offers advice/thoughts to the few and far in between posts that come up from someone trying to do something positive on this project. I just wanted that out there. If *anyone* with programming experience wants to put positive effort into this project, please join the mailing list.

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bernd_afa 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:52:38
#74 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@zardoz

>I will have to ask you either to either post something on topic or stay away from this >thread. Your agenda against non-68k OSes and OS4 really has nothing to do with >Amizilla and whatever stuff you post about NSPR and pthreads are completely and >utterly irrelevant

the nspr is a important point to port netsurf or firefox.
So its usefull to know if in the OS4 firefox Port need a special version and wy there cant use the standard pthread version use and where the source of this special version is.

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Zardoz 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 9-Jul-2009 17:56:14
#75 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
the nspr is a important point to port netsurf or firefox.
So its usefull to know if in the OS4 firefox Port need a special version and wy there cant use the standard pthread version use and where the source of this special version is.


No, it is not useful to know that, it would have been useful to know that if it was impossible to work around it. It has already been worked around, end of story. Take the pthread issues elsewhere, all you're doing is nitpicking because your favourite solution to the problem is not the one chosen, it's off topic and this is my last word on the matter, further posts will be removed.

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Ants 
Re: Are we going to see Amizilla soon?
Posted on 11-Jul-2009 3:57:51
#76 ]
Member
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Posts: 75
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Rogue and afxgroup

Ahh right- ok thanks for that info guys! Looks like we'll carry on with NSPR threads (which AFAIK, is for simple thread implementation, and should work on any OS). Also looks like we'll have to create a native layer GUI (XUL) layer- it may be simpler than trying to get GTK to work- or though will give it a go...
The NSPR testing suite for FF 3 does look pretty good now- the one that we have for the current AmiZilla code is poor- but we could possiblely use the new tests- as AFAIK the NSPR hasn't really changed.


@afxgroup

Yeah, thanks- it'd be good if you could post a link to your sources- it's be good to see what you did in case we run into problems!


-Ants
AmiZilla Coordinator

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