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      /  Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
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fairlanefastback 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 14-Dec-2009 22:44:37
#21 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
At least now we can see that there are no secret investors in Amiga Inc


This agreement does not really cover the makeup of ownership of Amiga, Inc. actually. It shows that Amiga, Inc., Amino, and Itec all agree in complete concert that Hyperion gets what is agreed to in here. It also shows that Itec and Prokom have publically recorded collateral loan agreements with Amiga, Inc, (or perhaps, but less likely, Amino).

Quote:
Amiga were actually doing something regarding licensing their technology to third parties during the quiet times that actually made sense


Which appears to have netted them very little, since they have not paid back outstanding loans to clear collateral agreements from 2006 and 2007. Since the Prokom investment was in 2005 it would appear that Prokom likely insisted on the collateral agreement in 2007. I'm guessing that they were unhappy with progress in those two years.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 14-Dec-2009 22:50:32
#22 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
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@fairlanefastback

Quote:
Prokom appears to be out a lot of money, if they are smart they will start pressing Amiga, Inc. on what it was spent on, if they have not already.


Not likely.

Let's not forget than Ryszard Krauze - Chairman of the Board at ProKom, was also a member of the board of directors of Amiga Inc. You would -think- in that position he might know something about where his own money went. Heh.

#6

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 14-Dec-2009 23:00:28
#23 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Quote:
Prokom appears to be out a lot of money, if they are smart they will start pressing Amiga, Inc. on what it was spent on, if they have not already.


Not likely.

Let's not forget than Ryszard Krauze - Chairman of the Board at ProKom, was also a member of the board of directors of Amiga Inc. You would -think- in that position he might know something about where his own money went. Heh.

#6


I said Prokom appears to be out a lot of money (lots of money in, no apparent ROI). I would not be surprised personally if Mr. Krauze was not out anything. Mr. Krauze was on the board of Hakia, I'm not sure if we ever saw anything official that he was on the board of Amiga.

(Conjecture / Wild Speculation Theory hat mode on:)
Lets say for a moment that perhaps Mr. Krauze was on the board of Amiga, Inc though. It would be interesting would it not if he drew a high salary from Amiga, Inc. for that role, especially if that pay were largely bankrolled by the Prokom Investment, now wouldn't it? An investment he likely had a hand in authorizing in the first place.

Prokom did spend multiple millions for an extremely tiny interest in stock. It had the appearance of quite the sweetheart deal in the first place given that.

Prokom is a public company though and if something like that happened it would be severely frowned upon by investors. Especially since Mr. Krauze no longer has the same role there, since around the time of his troubles with the Polish goverment. The 2005 Prokom annual report sadly did not give much information on what Amiga was supposed to deliver for all that cash.

Lets put it this way, if I were a Prokom stockholder I would have some serious questions I'd want answered.

For a start it would be interesting to see what the collateral is from their 2007 UCC statement.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Dec-2009 at 11:09 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Dec-2009 at 11:07 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Dec-2009 at 11:05 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Dec-2009 at 11:03 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Dec-2009 at 11:01 PM.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 14-Dec-2009 23:06:36
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@fairlanefastback

Quote:
I'm not sure if we ever saw anything official that he was on the board of Amiga.


You are correct sir. I never posted that in the ProKom thread.
Here ya' go..

Quote:
He is also a member of the board of directors of the following companies: Occidental Resources, Siewiergeofizyka, Amiga Inc. and Hakia Inc.


source: http://www.bioton.pl/en/about/article/show/99

For those historians who missed the antics of ProKom and AI, please refer to the consumate thread on ProKom:
Prokom stock

#6


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damocles 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 0:18:33
#25 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Lou

Interesting read. Pity it didn't go into the financial side of it.

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Radfoo 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 0:33:59
#26 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 327
From: Derbyshire, Great Britain!

Hmm, so could Hyperion (in theory) sell me a 3.1 ROM?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 0:34:31
#27 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote:
@Lou

Interesting read. Pity it didn't go into the financial side of it.



Actually it references that lawyer fees are the responsibility of each party for their own lawyers (which is not always the case in a settlement). There does not appear to be any other compensation involved, in either direction (unless I missed something in there). If there was, while IANAL, it would likely have been referenced in this document, if not a dollar amount, at least that money was indeed involved.

Regardless, this clearly shows they aren't "partners", your previous contention/accusation.

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CodeSmith 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 3:25:31
#28 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

Is there anything in the settlement about the 3.1 source code? Reason I'm asking is that it might be useful to the NatAmi team for updates/bugfixes (either licensing the source and making code changes themselves, or paying the current owners to make the changes for them).

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Channel_Z 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 4:12:59
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2009
Posts: 305
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

Yes. The document states that although Amiga Inc. still owns AmigaOS 3.1 (called "the Software" in the document), Hyperion has the right to use it and sub-license it to other parties, among other things.

It might be useful to the Natami team, but not critical in any way. Any modification of the kickstart needed for the Natami to work can be loaded as a kickstart extension after the original unmodified kickstart binary has been loaded. So in fact the Natami project is not dependent on Hyperion or Amiga Inc in any way. People could use their Amiga Forever kickstart or copy the kickstart from their A1200.
AmigaOS is designed in this way, preventing legal trouble 25 years later :)

But a licensing deal might be useful or beneficial nonetheless.

Last edited by Channel_Z on 15-Dec-2009 at 04:14 AM.

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meet.mrnrg 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 5:05:54
#30 ]
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Joined: 5-Feb-2007
Posts: 1919
From: UK, AUS, US

@ALL

Its going to be quite some time before I have read all parts in detail.
But from my brief examination of the terms and wording;

A) Amiga Parties: Can do what they like with what they had
B) Hyperion: Can do with what it legally owns AmigaOS4 Architecure and can revise the version numbers from 4.0+ to X.X+ but not reverse or wind the numbers back on that
specific enhanced or upgraded architecture platform;

NOTE / CLAUSES:
1) Hyperion still has to prove ownership or acquire ownership of AmigaOS4+ architecture source from the programmers involved.
2) Hyperion may acquire better rights to the Collateral in the event of Amiga Bankruptcy.
3) Not sure what Amiga can do if Hyperion files for Bankruptcy.
4) Not sure if Amiga can still claim access to and sell AmigaOS4.0+ binaries Worldwide or otherwise.
5) Either party may purchase one another or modify the agreement in an approved court of law. Usually due to money being exchanged or breaches of contract.
6) Amiga will police the Amiga Brand & Apply Some Quality Assurance or at least Quality Checks or anything Amiga related, to ensure the brand value is not diluted.

Congratulations on all those lawyers (official and non-official) for their insight and opinions.

IMHO this is a good outcome, if not the best outcome, never the less the Amiga Clone world is secure and AmigaOS4.0 on any hardware can now become a reality. I'm sure the agreement said any hardware AmigaONE or otherwise.

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itix 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 8:16:26
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Radfoo

Quote:

Hmm, so could Hyperion (in theory) sell me a 3.1 ROM?


In theory Hyperion can give you 3.1 ROM for free. But yes, they can charge money if they want to.

There is also problem with OS 3.5/3.9 because it does not have legal OS 3.1 ROMs.

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itix 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 8:24:50
#32 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Regardless, this clearly shows they aren't "partners", your previous contention/accusation.


They are partners. Hyperion agress to defend and hold harmless Amiga from any claims from 3rd party OS4 developers, Hyperion can not portrait Amiga in a negative manner, Hyperion must defend Amiga intellectual property, trademarks and so on. They are married together.

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ChrisH 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 9:08:19
#33 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Kicko
I doubt Amiga would build anything *themselves*, but they might get someone *else* to do the work, and then *sell* it (or a variation of it) themselves. Building an "Amiga joystick" to plug in TV & play games is certainly an obvious way to make a little money.

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DAX 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 10:33:33
#34 ]
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

I still remember when certain people said that until there was an update in the lawsuit/courts files it might have been just an "invention"...

Anyway, Hyperion is now allowed to do a lot of nice things, I'm sure they will use this chance in the best possible way.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 11:06:25
#35 ]
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Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@ChrisH

Quote:
Building an "Amiga joystick" to plug in TV & play games is certainly an obvious way to make a little money.


They would have to use Natami or Minimig hardware and miniturise it! I doubt they have the R&D budget to get any help modifying the Minimig to a form factor joystick design (prefereably a Zip-Stick/Competition Pro)!

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Lou 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 12:20:42
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4050
From: Rhode Island

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Regardless, this clearly shows they aren't "partners", your previous contention/accusation.


They are partners. Hyperion agress to defend and hold harmless Amiga from any claims from 3rd party OS4 developers, Hyperion can not portrait Amiga in a negative manner, Hyperion must defend Amiga intellectual property, trademarks and so on. They are married together.

I see those as clauses to avoid one side slandering the other intentionally or otherwise. So basically, Hyperion can't go around calling Amiga Inc. a shell-game company... That's certainly something that favors AInc. with regards to potentially acquiring future investments/investors.

Now that Hyperion's financial standing has been upgraded, I wonder if they are considering making a play for buying Amiga Inc. outright... Perhaps that is their most ambitious project...

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itix 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 12:42:07
#37 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Lou

Quote:

I see those as clauses to avoid one side slandering the other intentionally or otherwise. So basically, Hyperion can't go around calling Amiga Inc. a shell-game company... That's certainly something that favors AInc. with regards to potentially acquiring future investments/investors.


They have a contract. They are sharing IP and trademarks. What they are not if not partners? Maybe Hyperion is unwilling partner here but partner still. If Amiga Inc. decides to start yet another coupon scam Hyperion can not even warn you about it. Even if Hyperion knows something nasty about Amiga Inc they can not tell you. Anything portraing Amiga in a negative manner is forbidden from Hyperion.

Quote:

Now that Hyperion's financial standing has been upgraded, I wonder if they are considering making a play for buying Amiga Inc. outright... Perhaps that is their most ambitious project...


Hyperion can not afford it. Not that Hyperion would need anything from Amiga company now. Hyperion can finish H&P at will, they can give OS 3.1 license to Acube for free and continue their own OS4 project forever.

Assets in Amiga company are uninteresting and being privately held company it is going to be expensive buy.

Last edited by itix on 15-Dec-2009 at 12:44 PM.
Last edited by itix on 15-Dec-2009 at 12:43 PM.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 12:46:49
#38 ]
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

Errr.... Have the Friedens and settled with Hyperion then?

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itix 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 12:50:59
#39 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@BigBentheAussie

Err, you think there ever was real case from Friedens against Hyperion? If there was they would not be developing OS4 anymore. I believe it was planned step from Hyperion itself to complicate Amiga's case against Hyperion.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: Hyperion/ITEC/AMINO Agreement posted on Justia.com
Posted on 15-Dec-2009 13:14:08
#40 ]
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@itix

Errr... Fair enough.

If I understand correctly....

So, I guess they still need a license from Amiga if they don't want to call a computer sporting Amiga OS, an Amiga One. Am I the only one that thought "Amiga One" was/is a silly name. They have to license the Amiga name to call a computer they release in some form of partnership an "Amiga". They still can't just relabel a SAM as an "Amiga". They can call it an Amiga One however because they own that trademark. Or do they have rights to a version or model number suffix. ie. Like calling it an Amiga 5000 or something. (Oh, I can't be bothered unraveling what I just wrote. It's late.)

I find it interesting how Amiga can't write an OS with a similar architecture to Amiga OS now. They could have turned around and used AROS on an Amiga branded machine otherwise. I also find it interesting that they can use/sell 3.1 as long as they completely hide the UI and just show the app/game.

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