Honestly, I've never been to a forum where people are so eager to drop the T-bomb and label each other trolls. Believe it or not, there are more people in the world who genuinely disagree with your opinions then there are people in the world who will say stuff just to wind you up.

Your choice of quote was poor at any rate because my whole point is that Barry Altman doesn't appear to have done anything great or created anything.

Like it or not, there are lots of aspects of this that will arouse people's supicion, and it is reasonable for them to be wary. You can't pass it off as trolling because, well, too many people are all thinking the same thing.

Like I've said all along - happy to proved wrong, but not impressed thus far, at all.

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@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

I know you..... you just want to stick your SAM in it!!

Well, of course

Quote:

The only thing I am wasting, it would seem, is my time on this forum.

Look...you know this community has been burned too many times and for many years in the past.

...Merlancia, IWin, Amiga Inc....

Naturally, skepticism abounds here. So far, all I see is an amateur-looking online store with Commodore logos all over and a selection of computer/keyboard systems (made by various manufacturers) that I could just as well buy somewhere else.
You expect people here to embrace this as the new Commodore? Come on man, do a reality check...

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but the Commodore USA story gets worse and worse. Compare http://www.commodoreusa.net/Commodore_Phoenix_computer.html to http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html.

"There’s nothing like Mac mini. At just 6.5 inches square and 2 inches tall, it’s designed to take up far less room — and use far less energy — than any other desktop computer."

"Introducing the Commodore Phoenix. There’s nothing like it. At just 17.5 inches wide and 2 inches tall, it’s designed to take up far less room — and use far less energy — than any other desktop computer."

"Small. Simple. Beautiful. Mac mini has a sleek, anodized aluminum case and clean, white surface. It’s small, elegant, and unassuming. In fact, it looks so simple it's hard to believe it’s a computer at all."

"Small. Simple. Beautiful. [The Commodore Phoenix] has a sleek, aluminum finish case and a clean, contemporary surface. It's small, elegant, and unassuming. In fact, it looks so simple it's hard to believe it's a computer at all."

...and so on. It continues down the page. He doesn't do himself any favours, does he?

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Can you put a 512MB/1GB Radeon card in there?

Last edited by TheDaddy on 28-May-2010 at 11:47 PM.
Last edited by TheDaddy on 28-May-2010 at 11:47 PM.

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@jas_mc

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He doesn't do himself any favours, does he?

I kewn I've read it somewhere. Thanks.

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So again whats the point in buying a crappy PC from ITrademarksIdon'tOwnUSA.com ?

To run AROS ?

Better buy an iMica or AresOne as companies/individuals behind them actually do support AROS instead of just doing some obscure PR-stunt.

To run OSX ?

Apart from the legal problems, there are also technical ones, there is no straight-forward way of installing you have to be extra carefull when you do an update, cos it might allways be that Apple found a way to regognize and disable your non-Apple HW.

To run Windows or Linux ?

Far far far better options out there.

To run an obscure OS that probraly only exist as a name ?

Be my guest

The whole operation stinks from head to tail.

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- blame Canada

And some people should really consider what they associate with "Commodore", if it's only "some ugly computer inside a KBD-case" than yes those crap-PCs are 100% spot on.

If the think "ease to use", "power without the price" "ahead of the competiton" "cool games" etc they need to look elsewhere.

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- blame Canada

@Kronos

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Kronos wrote: So again whats the point in buying a crappy PC from ITrademarksIdon'tOwnUSA.com ? To run AROS ? Better buy an iMica or AresOne as companies/individuals behind them actually do support AROS instead of just doing some obscure PR-stunt.

You and me should know, a trademark might be nothing more than a sticker. But a lot of people thought different. Commodoreusa.com was able got a lot of attention for it's announvement, I bet the trademark it worth enought to sell a keyboard computer that is 25% more expensive than a normal desktop model There are a lot of other evidences how much a trademark could motivate people to wait and buy unknown products.

Last edited by Arko on 29-May-2010 at 12:52 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

I think the big mistake in this picture is that the form factor was the reason people bought C64. My experience is that the form factor didn't really matter so much as the price and versatility. The C64's chief competition was the Apple 2, most of us back in the day wanted an Apple 2, which was a similar form factor, but couldn't afford it. The C64 came out at well under half the price and a similar configuration to the Apple 2. It was fun and in the end we would have bought it no matter what the form factor was.

So to recap:

1) Low Price, "Commodore" USA is more expensive than alternatives.
2) Usuability, some, like the invictus/ASUS are horribly underpowered.
3) Uniqueness, "Commodore" USA is a Windows XP box....

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote: @Arko I think the big mistake in this picture is that the form factor was the reason people bought C64. My experience is that the form factor didn't really matter so much as the price and versatility.

In former times, I would have prefered a C64 in a C128D like case with the possibillity to use multiple modules (slot cards) .. But if you would have seen the posts here in the forum about C64/A500/A1200 cases or the echo in the media about this "C64 successor" it might be a littlie success. If one of thouseand PC customers would be crazy enough to buy this thing, he could sell a million in three years. But I would not buy it, even if it would be half the price of an equal equipped PC, even if it had twenty C64 and Commodore stickers on it.




Quote:

The C64's chief competition was the Apple 2, most of us back in the day wanted an Apple 2, which was a similar form factor, but couldn't afford it. The C64 came out at well under half the price and a similar configuration to the Apple 2. It was fun and in the end we would have bought it no matter what the form factor was. So to recap: 1) Low Price, "Commodore" USA is more expensive than alternatives. 2) Usuability, some, like the invictus/ASUS are horribly underpowered. 3) Uniqueness, "Commodore" USA is a Windows XP box....

You don't have to convince me ...

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

sry double post

Last edited by Arko on 30-May-2010 at 05:40 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

I do think that Commodore USA could be a financial success... a quick bit of Binging shows that they've generated quite a stir, and a lot of geeks seem to be reacting well to the idea of a Commodore-branded PC-in-keyboard (my own first reaction was positive, until I found that the product was already available under another name).

If it does succeed, I think it will be primarily because the Cybernet ZPC wasn't very well known in the first place, meaning that people will think these are new products (and also won't be aware of his debateable business practices, like using trademarks without permission to find out who owns them and copying Apple's marketing nearly word-for-word on his website).

I think I've said before that this was a stroke of marketing genius, but I still don't think it's brining back the Commodore brand in any meaningful way. However, *if* this guy genuinely does have bigger and better plans for Commodore USA, then it wouldn't surprise me if he makes enough money from these rebranding venture to make them happen.

Personally, what I'd most like to see is:

- A PC-in-keyboard (PCiK) that isn't about portability. I would use it as a desktop, so I don't want built-in speakers or a touchpad. I've got a laptop for that. My ideal PCiK can be as big or clunky as you like... it'll still have retro value and it'll still save space.

- BEIGE!

- Bundled emulation and the ability to load games direct from disk, without booting into the OS.

What I really miss about my Amiga 500 is the fact that it was half way between a games console (no worrying about system specs or having to install stuff - just switch it on and stick a disk in) and a PC (loads of good productivity software for being creative). The new AmigaOS and related options are really cool, but that's not what they're aspiring to be. They're aspiring to be more "PC-like" in terms of what niche they fill in your life.

If anyone else thinks like me, that's a genuine gap in the market that could be filled by a custom Linux box. You basically get a Linux PCiK that can boot into the operating system for all the usual software, *or* automatically boot games from disk. You could release automatically bootable versions of popular games for it. If you sold enough boxes, you could commission some exclusives.

I think small console ventures are doomed to fail because you're asking users to pay for a console when they perceive that the whole project is likely to die a death very quickly, leaving them without any games. In the case of my retro gaming box, worse case scenario is that the project dies a death, but the buyer still gets left with a usable Linux PC in a really cool retro form factor. So there's less of a risk in buying.

THAT'S what I'd like Commodore USA to do

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@jas_mc

Wow, you've now brought this thread back from the dead.

BTW I am the OP and I do agree with most things you say, which is why I am so enthusiastic.

For the Phoenix, the built in speaker and touch pad, are just extras. You get the same from any laptop. In a pinch they can be useful and you don't need to use them. You don't think I asked!!! Retooling of the machine at the factory to omit the touch pad and move the keyboard forward for instance, on the Phoenix I heard, costs around ~30-50 thousand US dollars. It will likely happen, but not yet. The current keyboard placement puts it more in line with the original C64 from most angles anyway. I wouldn't regard it as a show stopper, but hey, it's always good to leave something to enhance for next year's model. (See Apple.) And there are already two other models that may better fit your aesthetic tastes if that is the most important aspect.

I would like to see emulation options....hopefully through AROS, to create the Ultimate RETRO Amiga experience for Commodore fans.

As for booting games from disk. The only viable games market for the machine, which is after all a PC, is that of Windows. Booting games from DVD is over-rated in my opinion anyway. Wouldn't you rather click an icon to launch your game immediately, and not have to worry about keeping physical media around? We used to use disks out of necessity. We have more than a enough space on HDs and which give us a far superior loading time for games.

And nothing is stopping anyone from booting a game from DVD/CD right now for any PC. AROS and Linux boot off physical media right now, and even USB sticks. Linux has for a long time and it still hasn't taken off as a games delivery method and I doubt it ever will again. Consoles only maintain portable media for DRM reasons. If they installed games onto HD they would likely be circumvented quite easily. Or not, I don't know. If you are really interested in making a game that boots off DVD/CD and works only on Commodore machines, you could write it for AROS, as that is likely to be natively supported. You'd have better luck however using Linux for its greater PC hardware support.

As for beige....Oh man.... I mean really, is it that big a deal? Is it really that much in demand? Is it something like a Ferrari having to be red or something?

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 31-May-2010 at 05:02 PM.

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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@jas_mc

Quote:

I do think that Commodore USA could be a financial success...

That would be awesome. Imagine, they would be able to hire someone to write their PR and not just rip text from Apple.com!

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@BigBentheAussie

Re: beige (or grey would do) - it's not a BIG big deal, but it is a bit of a deal.

I mean if I was going to fork out for a Ferrari, I'd definitely want a red one :o)

Booting direct from disk is just my little retro fantasy. Advantages of doing it properly would be a) no waiting for the OS to boot, b) guarantee that all titles in the product line would be optimised for your exact configuration, and b) not having to install anything.

In a PC gaming sense, it's not taken off in a games deliver sense, but remember that's how consoles still offer the majority of their games. You switch it on, stick a disk in, and go straight to playing it. I guess that's my point about making something that's half way between the two things. You could use this hypothetical Linux PCiK box purely as a simple games console until you needed to do something productive, in which case you'd press a button at the disk prompt to go to full desktop mode.

As for "nothing is stopping from booting a game from DVD/CD right now for any PC", yup, agree totally - that's kind of why I'm suggesting it... it's an example of something that could be implemented in a novel way to recapture a retro experience, leading to a distinct unique product, without any big R&D costs/custom hardware/software.

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Had someone here ever bought a product from Commodore USA ?

Commodore USA is dommed, If they could not turn the attention they got into profit

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@jas_mc

Quote:

Booting direct from disk is just my little retro fantasy. Advantages of doing it properly would be a) no waiting for the OS to boot, b) guarantee that all titles in the product line would be optimised for your exact configuration, and b) not having to install anything.

Uh. I did some "boot Linux from CD-ROM, start game without dropping to X". Here's what I think about it.

a) It will take longer than loading system and running game. You think slow optical drive vs. ultra-fast disk drive. And you still need to get all the drivers. How else would you play on the net? You need your TCP, your sound mixer, your HID drivers. So you end up loading OS from slow optical drive.

b) How would that work? I mean, you really thing someone will put effort in "games for Commodore USA rebranded PCs"?

c) And what about your saves? What about cached information? You know that both XBOX, XBOX360 and PS3 have HDD inside to speed things up?

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@jas_mc

Quote:

Booting direct from disk is just my little retro fantasy.

When we started with an A500, HDs where expensive, later most of us where glad if a game could be installed on HD.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

The box would still have a hard drive (where games could be saved to, temp files extracted to etc.) and Linux installed on that hard drive.

My plan was that you could switch this thing on and be presented with a retro hand holding a CD or something. If you didn't want to stick a game in, you could press F1 to boot into Linux as per normal. If that's impractical/impossible I guess it's just a pipe dream

Just to clarify, I'm not necessarily suggesting this as something for Commodore USA to do per se... just something that I think would be a cool product, for anyone to do.

As for getting other people to put effort in, I guess the onus would be on the producer to get permission to retool and sell (on a royalty basis?) a number of existing games for the product, as launch titles. If the games aspect was a complete flop, then at least people who had bought one could still use it as a normal Linux PC, which would mean they could install normal Linux games and run them from with the operating system as per usual.

I also imagined that you'd somehow set this up to include a bunch of pre-installed emulators, and maybe even stuff like a shockwave player and a flash player. So if the user turned it on and stuck in a disk containing a supported game format, the box would recognise what it was and boot the appropriate player to run the game automatically. So even if no new games came out, it would be a cool "universal emulator".

I've not really thought through exactly how it would work (can you tell?) as much as I have about the user experience. Basic premise is, it's a regular Linux PC with a startup screen designed to recreate an Amiga 500-style gaming experience, that you can bypass to reach full desktop.

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