@MikeB

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The moon and earh orbit each ohter, but the earth holds greater mass.

Yes, but the Sun has even greater mass.

Asimov's idea includes the Sun as well.
Here it is in short:

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Several approaches have been suggested for defining a double-planet. One method, suggested by Isaac Asimov, is to compute the force of gravitation exerted by a planet on its moon (Fp), and the force exerted by the Sun on that moon (Fs). The ratio Fp/Fs is the Tug Of War (TOW) value. A TOW value less than 1 indicates that the moon is more firmly gripped by the Sun than its planet. The TOW value for Earth and Luna is approximately 0.455. Two recently discovered satellites of Jupiter, and the outermost satellite of Neptune, also have TOW values less than one.

The above quoted from http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/Talk:Double_planet


wikipedia on double planets

Wikipedia mentions that the Moon is drifting away, so, in a distant future, the barycenter will be above Earths surface, making Earth / Moon a double planet even by the most common definition.

Last edited by tomazkid on 05-Apr-2011 at 09:09 PM.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@MikeB

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Plato didn't mention it as such and other Greek philosophers treated it as historical fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis

We don't know what Plato mentioned. There's no one alive who talked to him. And certainly his autobiography is no where to be found. What we do know is Plato wrote many fictional works concerning and explaining Philosophy and Atlantis was in two of these works. Of course we are all people and there is no way to get everyone in the world to agree.

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Strictly speaking the earth and sun orbit each other, but due to the sun's enormously greater mass than the earth the barycenter is located near the center of the sun. As I stated before for Jupiter that's not the case as its barycenter with the sun is located above the Sun's surface.

Not quite... The barycenter of the solar system is within the corona of the sun. An orbit is the curved path a mass takes around the center most point. The other masses, such as planets, in the solar system orbit the barycenter. Since the barycenter is within the sun it doesn't really take a curved path around this point it spins around it. The result is the sun wobbles due the other masses throwing off it's spin.

Which, not so conincidentally, is one way we can tell if other stars have planets. We can see the star is wobbling.

And interesting you claimed that Nibru may be one answer to Pluto's chaotic wobble. If so then we can identify mass and direction and see if Nibru exists or not. Also, since we can estimate the speed and mass of Nibru due to it's predicted effect on earth we can also see where Nibru should be from this 2nd point. And, not so surprisingly, we can overlay these two locations to see where they intersect which should give us even a better indication of where Nibru should be. And this my friend is defined as parallax. The viewing of an object through two different points of sight. It can pinpoint a location fairly accurately.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/two-suns-twin-stars_n_811864.html

It seems Nibiru is already being call simply a super nova from far away and that we'll see what looks like 2 suns.

What's interesting about all these cover-ups is that each one is an isolated explanation...

Yet what is being covered up is a consistent story throughout the ages.

Now what makes more sense: a consistent story throughout history with accurate predictions of coming physical events OR what ever you'll want to hear each time something happens to explain it away and make sure you pay your taxes?

Zecharia Sitchin's translations are consistent and make for congruent historical sense. Now we are told we have a star going super nova and it won't harm us children so go back and play your Xbox.

@recedent
Thanks for the reminder, I had forgotten about the book of balls. Sadly then , as now, religious leaders were suppressing knowledge in favour of superstition to enhance their own political power.
By the time Galileo was forced to recant his theory that the earth orbited the sun, it was "common knowledge" that the earth was flat and the universe was not a load of balls.

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@Lou

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What's interesting about all these cover-ups is that each one is an isolated explanation...

No, what's 'interesting' is that all these isolated events have their own explanations. Big surprise there. But of course they're not completely isolated - they're connected by a common thread of reason and observation. Something you Nibiru folks are apparently not familiar with.

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Now what makes more sense: a consistent story throughout history with accurate predictions of coming physical events OR what ever you'll want to hear each time something happens to explain it away and make sure you pay your taxes?

What makes sense is an application of reason to the observable universe. You Niburu wingnuts do not provide a consistent story, and you didn't accurately predict the end of the world in 2003, nor at any previous point, so I am willing to bet that you will be wrong about 2012 as well.

You also seem to be conflating an anti-taxation thing with your anti-science, anti-reason stance. I don't know why this would be.

Also, just to clarify the speculative popular science article you linked to - the star they're talking about is just a late-stage giant that we can tell is losing mass. That's the final stage before supernova, but we don't know enough to tell how much longer that star has before it goes up. Regardless of that, its something that's happening so far away that it has no relevance whatsoever to us, nor us to it. Suggesting that these independently confirmed observations are a coverup is merely clutching at straws.

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Zecharia Sitchin's translations are consistent and make for congruent historical sense.

Zecharia Sitchin's 'translations' are rarely even consistent with themselves, and have never been confirmed by any other archaeologist or linguist working in any field. They do not make any sense in the archaeological context, nor do they fit with later history. For a start, the best-preserved archaeology indicates that the Sumerians only recognised the existence of five planets. Of these five, two have since been found to be completely different types of object.

Unfortunately, even this is pieced together from ornamental illustrations, because the Sumerians didn't leave even a single tablet containing organised astronomical observations behind. Strange, for a people that supposedly had all the answers.

@Amigo1

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Not directly related to Nibiru but UFO and abduction.

If one assumes the endless abduction reports to be true as well as the information provided by "contactees". Then it seems the Zetas (Greys) are in charge of alien operations here on earth.

They seem to play a good / bad cop kind of game. Human experiences with them seem to be predominantly negative. People are being abducted and mistreated (from human perspective) against their will. Alledgedly Zetas once signed a treaty with the US government (or the puppet masters) after one of their craft was shot down. The Zetas would provide technology in exchange for being able to conduct abductions and experiments without direct government interference.

According to various people who claim to be contactees, there are both good and bad Zetas. These good Zetas are claiming that they are here to help humanity through the bad times when Nibiru passes, but will not prevent disasters (as the earth is a schoolhouse and we should learn from mistakes / the upcoming catastrophes. They will only help to allow the schoolhouse to continue to exist if needed like disarming nuclear missiles). They foresee an earth with life more resembling their kind.

Hybrids are alledged to have been created which may pose more human-like features, more attractive to humans and maybe less calculatively cold hearted than the original Zetas so they can mingle with human society on earth.

If their prohecies are true they may want to try to earn the trust of people. In a good / bad cop conspiracy they may want people who trust them as guides to survive (easy prey?). But ultimately their goal may be to strenghten their position here to eventually gain control over the workforce (like the annunakii or illuminati).

The "good Zetas" constantly criticize the illuminati for keeping people in the dark and performing malicious acts, who within their hierarchy hold the great "puppet masters". Think of them as a powerful gang of ancient Swiss banker families, owning much of the world's oil and military companies and at the top billionaire George Soros. They are said to be the ones who currently run the show here on earth, they push forward US presidential candidates by funding their campaigns (amongst others who suit their desires).

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2011 at 12:52 PM.

@T-J

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T-J wrote: @Lou Quote: What's interesting about all these cover-ups is that each one is an isolated explanation... No, what's 'interesting' is that all these isolated events have their own explanations. Big surprise there. But of course they're not completely isolated - they're connected by a common thread of reason and observation. Something you Nibiru folks are apparently not familiar with. Quote: Now what makes more sense: a consistent story throughout history with accurate predictions of coming physical events OR what ever you'll want to hear each time something happens to explain it away and make sure you pay your taxes? What makes sense is an application of reason to the observable universe. You Niburu wingnuts do not provide a consistent story, and you didn't accurately predict the end of the world in 2003, nor at any previous point, so I am willing to bet that you will be wrong about 2012 as well. You also seem to be conflating an anti-taxation thing with your anti-science, anti-reason stance. I don't know why this would be. Also, just to clarify the speculative popular science article you linked to - the star they're talking about is just a late-stage giant that we can tell is losing mass. That's the final stage before supernova, but we don't know enough to tell how much longer that star has before it goes up. Regardless of that, its something that's happening so far away that it has no relevance whatsoever to us, nor us to it. Suggesting that these independently confirmed observations are a coverup is merely clutching at straws. Quote: Zecharia Sitchin's translations are consistent and make for congruent historical sense. Zecharia Sitchin's 'translations' are rarely even consistent with themselves, and have never been confirmed by any other archaeologist or linguist working in any field. They do not make any sense in the archaeological context, nor do they fit with later history. For a start, the best-preserved archaeology indicates that the Sumerians only recognised the existence of five planets. Of these five, two have since been found to be completely different types of object.

What cracks me up about people like you is, I for one hope I'm wrong but don't discount the possibility that these things may indeed be where as people like you are blind even to real hard evidence.

Sitchin has not been disproven. Infact there are websites mathematically proving what he's been saying about our solar system which came simply from his translations because he himself is not an astro-physisist.

Quantum Physics says we are simply surrounded by possibilities. To deny possibilities like the 'skeptics' blindly do is to deny reality.

You try to discredit me here:
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You also seem to be conflating an anti-taxation thing with your anti-science, anti-reason stance.

My stance is pro-science and pro-history. To deny the possibility of extra-terrestrial life is to deny probability and reality. Every ancient text from every religion descends from the Sumerian texts. How can you deny this? You simply can't. Why listen to the hand-me-down stories when we can read the source which hasn't gotten poluted over time as it was retold in the bible and koran...etc..?

And just to clarify, if something went super nova, we wouldn't see it's affects in this lifetime. A 2nd sun wouldn't suddenly rise behind our sun visible in the daylight and to the human eye. So if we do see a "2nd sun" it's actuallly quite impossible that it is actually a super nova. It's funny what happens when you apply real science to the stories the the cover-up artists make up.

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Unfortunately, even this is pieced together from ornamental illustrations, because the Sumerians didn't leave even a single tablet containing organised astronomical observations behind. Strange, for a people that supposedly had all the answers.

No, this is just ignorance. Their language is pictogram-based...as were the Mayans, Aztecs, Egyptians and eventually native American Indians. A picture is worth a thousand words so the saying goes.

If we both existed a couple of thousand years ago, you would be telling me the earth really is flat...and I'd be saying "what if it's not?"

@recedent

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Most of the ancient cultures believed that Earth was flat

There are many indications that this is incorrect.


Ancients also knew the earth goes round the sun. The concept of tracking time originated with the Sumerians. Including the division of 360 degrees into 60 (minutes) originate there.

The sumerians used both pictographs and more flexible cuniform text (phonetic & syllabic):

Example sumerian pictograph:



Example sumerian cuniform tablets:

@Lou

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And just to clarify, if something went super nova, we wouldn't see it's affects in this lifetime. A 2nd sun wouldn't suddenly rise behind our sun visible in the daylight and to the human eye. So if we do see a "2nd sun" it's actuallly quite impossible that it is actually a super nova. It's funny what happens when you apply real science to the stories the the cover-up artists make up.

With that statement you reveal your total ignorance of astronomy, physics, in fact science in general. Don't worry though, you're in perfectly good company as a Niburu believer because Sitchin didn't know what he was talking about either.

In case anyone else with a mind open to reason has been confused by it, though, I'll clarify as well: If something goes supernova, the light from that event radiates outward at (surprisingly enough) the speed of light. The star in question, Betelgeuse, is 1200 light years away from us. So, 1200 years after its supernova, light from that event will reach Earth.

Since we have no other way of observing Betelgeuse apart from by the light it emits, everything we know about it is 1200 years out of date. It could have gone supernova 1199 years ago, which would of course mean that light from that event would arrive here some time next year. But it also might not go off for another 100,000 years. We just don't know, to quote a real astronomer. We are fairly sure that it will happen though, and we can be fairly sure that the result will be similar to past supernovae. Although since Betelgeuse is closer, its supernova will appear brighter - a temporary 'second sun' might be the result.

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My stance is pro-science and pro-history.

No, your stance is pro-woo. Nonsense, carefully disguised as science. It never passes serious examination. Unfortunately, misuse of the word 'Quantum' buys you lot far more respectability in the public consciousness than you deserve.

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To deny the possibility of extra-terrestrial life is to deny probability and reality. Every ancient text from every religion descends from the Sumerian texts. How can you deny this? You simply can't. Why listen to the hand-me-down stories when we can read the source which hasn't gotten poluted over time as it was retold in the bible and koran...etc..?

I haven't denied the possibility of extraterrestrial life. I have denied the Niburu BS. Furthermore, neither you nor Sitchin have ever provided any credible evidence to back up the claim that 'all ancient texts' are based on Sumerian ones. To suggest that they are is archaeological nonsense not backed by a single professional study - only Sitchin believed this. Speaking of Sitchin, there hasn't been a single other scholar who will agree with his 'translations' of the tablets that have been found. Of which none suggest a knowledge of astronomy any more advanced than a simple 'five planets with earth at the centre' model.

And as a final point, why should science pay ancient Sumerian fiction any more heed than it does to more recent works such as those you list?

Last edited by T-J on 06-Apr-2011 at 03:36 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 06-Apr-2011 at 03:36 PM.

@Deniil715

A Brown Dwarf positioned between us and the closest ordinary star (Proxima Centauri) is not impossible, at least if it is laying in the same plane as our planets. Then it would be covered by the Kupier belt and the Oort cloud. Otherwise it would already have been detected.

Maybe we´ll get some insight on that within the next decade when both Voyagers have passed the bow chock. New Horizon will also have passed the Voyagers by then. If I am not wrong it has fuel left in the main thruster. Maybe something to burn once it has passed the Kupier belt?

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@Niolator Quote: A planetary body of that size would have been detected decades ago Agreed, but that's what the conspiracy theorists are saying

It would also be one of the brightest objects in the sky now. Only rivalled by the full Moon. Even if it was completely black you would see it covering stars with bare eyesight.

@T-J

http://www.world-mysteries.com/pex_2.htm

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The IRAS (Infrared Astronomical Satellite), during ’83 -’84, produced observations of a tenth planet so robust that one of the astronomers on the project said that “all that remains is to name it” -- from which point the information has become curiously guarded. In 1992 Harrington and Van Flandern of the Naval Observatory, working with all the information they had at hand, published their findings and opinion that there is, indeed, a tenth planet, even calling it an “intruder” planet. The search was narrowed to the southern skies, below the ecliptic. Harrington invited Sitchin, having read his book and translations of the Enuma Elish, to a meeting at his office and they correlated the current findings with the ancient records. The recovered Enuma Elish document, a history of the formation of our solar system and more, says that, at the time when Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Uranus and Saturn were in place, there was a Uranus sized planet, called Tiamat, in orbit between Mars and Jupiter. Earth was not in place yet. A large wandering planet, called Nibiru, was captured into the system gravitationally. As it passed by the outer planets it caused the anomalies of their moons, the tilting of Uranus on its side, the dislodging of Pluto from its being a moon of Saturn to its own planetary orbit. Its path bent by the gravitational pull of the large planets, first its satellites collided with the large planet Tiamat and, on a second orbit through, Nibiru collided with Tiamat, driving the larger part of it into what is now Earth’s orbit to recongeal as Earth, dragging its moon with it to become our Moon with all its anomalies. The shattered debris of Tiamat’s smaller part became the asteroid belt, comets, and meteorites. The gouge of our Pacific basin is awesome testimony to the collisional event. Nibiru settled into a 3600 year elliptical retrograde (opposite direction to all the other planets) orbit around our sun, coming in through the asteroid belt region between Mars and Jupiter at perigee and swinging far out past Pluto at apogee. Harrington acknowledged that his information agreed with all these details and the maps they each had drawn of the orbits were almost indistinguishable. The current probable location of Nibiru (Planet X, our tenth) estimated by both was the same. It is the opinion of this author and others that, in light of the evidence already obtained through the use of the Pioneer 10 and 11 and two Voyager space craft, the Infrared Imaging Satellite (IRAS, ‘83-84) and the clear and unequivocal statements of Harrington when consulting with Sitchin, that the search has already been accomplished, in fact that the planet has already been found.

So science and Sumerian texts seem to agree. Ofcourse 'the scientist next door' will present some invented counter-argument.

Once you start looking into 'ooparts' you'll see more evidence of technology existing in the past beyond what people like you think.

What cracks me up about some people dicrediting Sitchin is that the "sun" symbol is not the same so they assume it isn't the sun in some of the texts. Well, my dad's name is Joe and when he writes it cursively, it looks like Lou to some people. Are we to assume that all ancient heiroglyphics are written by the same author with the same penmanship despite their ages? Ridiculous. It's like the critics lack common sense.

It's actually amusing that this website even exists: www.sitchiniswrong.com
It smells of desparation.

@Lou

If you're not going to pay any attention to the rational explanations offered, to the point of not even remembering which of your conspiracies have already been demolished by reason so far, there's no point continuing this.

The IR anomalies from 1982 have already been conclusively identified as distant galaxies, except for one case where the culprit was a wisp of galactic cirrus. Distant, slightly warm and incredibly huge objects that, when using 80s technology, are difficult to distinguish from nearby, insignificantly small warm objects like planets.

And as for your refutation of the symbol, well. The Sitchin symbol is a six pointed star, no outer circle. The symbol for 'sun' is a four pointed star with four sets of wavy lines, enclosed by a circle.

To use your analogy, if those symbols mean the same thing, your dad could also write his name as 'Gertrude'. Hey, they both end in 'e', they must be the same word!

@Niolator

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It would also be one of the brightest objects in the sky now.

Maybe bigger than Venus if the side which receives sunlight is pointed towards earth.

But conspiracy theorists think Niburi holds a far more diffuse atmosphere than Venus (the moon has no atmosphere at all), which may make it much harder to see with similar perspective size (so not per se brighter). And unlike the planets in our solar system Nibiru is believed to orbit the sun very differently, so for example may be best viewed from the south pole as it approaches and north pole as it leaves.

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2011 at 05:15 PM.

@Niolator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wW-JEMbtvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsbTPWpAEvc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxLZxuUwUKU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVB3cvwz6ng&feature=related

2 suns seen in NYC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H-xP1k7YLY&feature=related
tuscon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-xYvOmnyx8&NR=1

Amazing how a freak rare optical illusion can be seen across multiple continents...

Since Nibiru is still behind the sun, I believe it's being illuminated by the sun then reflected back at us.

Last edited by Lou on 06-Apr-2011 at 05:18 PM.

@T-J

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T-J wrote: @Lou If you're not going to pay any attention to the rational explanations offered, to the point of not even remembering which of your conspiracies have already been demolished by reason so far, there's no point continuing this. The IR anomalies from 1982 have already been conclusively identified as distant galaxies, except for one case where the culprit was a wisp of galactic cirrus. Distant, slightly warm and incredibly huge objects that, when using 80s technology, are difficult to distinguish from nearby, insignificantly small warm objects like planets. And as for your refutation of the symbol, well. The Sitchin symbol is a six pointed star, no outer circle. The symbol for 'sun' is a four pointed star with four sets of wavy lines, enclosed by a circle.

What's funny is you are repeating someone else's interpretation. What makes one person more right than another? If I draw a circle with 8 points one day and someone draws it with 4 points some 200 years later or even two blocks down the street at the same time, who cares? The point is the same, it's to denote a bright star, aka the sun. I think most 5 year olds could even figure that out. It's nice to see 'your science' is no smarter than a 5 year old.

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To use your analogy, if those symbols mean the same thing, your dad could also write his name as 'Gertrude'. Hey, they both end in 'e', they must be the same word!

You're seriously reaching here. Penmanship is distinct to the person. Why would penmanship in heiroglyphics be any less distinct? Or does common sense not apply when 'science' (or you) attempts to disprove things?

@Lou

The damn things are breeding!

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@Nimrod

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eligious leaders were suppressing knowledge in favour of superstition to enhance their own political power.

Did they? As far as I know Galileo was called by Inquisition to prove the heliocentric theory. Unfortunately he did not (as a matter of fact Copernicus made a mistake making the orbits circular instead of ellipsoidal and therefore the heliocentric model based calculations were not precise).

So, to sum all up:

1. Galileo didn't form the heliocentric theory, Copernicus did (but that was based on prior theory by Aristarch of Samos - III century B.C.), and his model wasn't flawless.
2. By the time Galileo got tried by Inquisition (and that did not happen before 1630's) probably every educated man in the world knew that Earth wasn't flat. So you're wrong, unless by "common knowledge" you understand the knowledge of an uneducated man.
3. Religious leaders did not "suppress" Galileo, they called him to prove the theory he supported (as an opposition to some quotations from the Bible, as for example Joshua 10:12-13). And although he failed to do so, he wast just sentenced to home arrest.
4. Depending on your favourite frame of reference both assumptions (that the Earth is still and all the planets are orbiting it or that all the planets are orbiting the Sun) are equally correct. It's just the heliocentric model is simplier when we want to do some calculations.

The last couple of days there have been many strange sighting in the skies:

This was reported to be an "exploding meteor" by the authorities in New Zealand:



There have been several of those in New Zealand and also one in Russia. I have never seen footage of a meteor (let alone several of them) exploding in the sky like that. IMO looks more like a projectile shot at an asteroid (like with the game missile command).

Recently from Australia:



Seems like a lot of things have started to fall from the sky recently.

Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2011 at 05:54 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 06-Apr-2011 at 05:49 PM.