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Stephen_Robinson
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:29:18
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Joined: 29-Apr-2005 Posts: 1991
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| @itix
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....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!
Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know?_________________ Rage quited 29th May 2011 |
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DAX
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:31:24
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009 Posts: 2790
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| @Arko PA6T is a Soc alright, and it's used in embedded motherboards created for the Military and Aerospace industries. Systems form X-Es and Varisys are just a few examples, what you linked uses a very noisy and power hungry 970MP which has no correlation to the above markets, industries and type of CPUs used there (I didn't say it is the most powerful PPC but the most powerful DualCore Soc for embedded use). Ferrel implied the chip was discontinued due to being surpassed when in its own market It is not (in the embedded low-power consumption world, far weaker CPUs are still in production simply because the company that makes them it's still around). The reason it's no longer produced is to be linked to PASemi's own history.
@Damocles Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back  Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good. When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful.
Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 04:37 PM.
_________________ SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4 Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2 AmigaCD 32 |
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damocles
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:53:33
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Joined: 22-Dec-2007 Posts: 1719
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| @DAX
Quote:
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good. When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful. |
I do agree it won't be helpful since PA6T is out of production and unlikely to return. But it would be interesting, nether the less, to see that benchmark and what they had to do to exploit a weakness of the G5.
_________________ Dammy |
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DAX
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:06:57
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Joined: 30-Sep-2009 Posts: 2790
From: Italy | | |
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| @damocles There were 4 benchs, 1 went slightly in favor of the PA6T, one slightly in favor of the G5, one basically on par and one which used optimized code was like 4 times faster on the PA6T. Again, useless stuff IMHO... (I mentioned Pavlor because he provided the original link, I'm sure he still has it).
Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 05:07 PM.
_________________ SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4 Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2 AmigaCD 32 |
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eliyahu
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:38:01
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Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1970
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @Stephen_Robinson
Quote:

....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!
Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know? |
outstanding. any time a simpsons or futurama reference is used around here, my day gets a little brighter. especially reading through this thread.
job well done. 
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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pavlor
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:41:24
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
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| @ferrels
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No, its 7 year old technology. X86 systems were outperforming the X1000 CPU back in 2004. |
Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W .
For benchmarks http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf
and of course Coremark.
Application benchmarks show that PA6T is comparable to 970FX (two CPUs).
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And the Natami wasn't designed to compete with the x1000 or any other system out there. It's a 68k retro board and will perform as such. |
My point was that if price/performance ratio is argument of some Natami supporters against X1000, then price/performance ratio of Natami is much worser.
@DAX
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Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back |
I´m back!  Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 05:43 PM.
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vidarh
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:01:02
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Joined: 4-Jan-2010 Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway) | | |
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_ThEcRoW
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:26:29
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Joined: 12-Jan-2005 Posts: 836
From: Murcia (Spain) | | |
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| How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?. These are too much years for the things they have done. It lacks usb2 among other first necessities in a os.
_________________ Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1 Amiga 500 + ACA500plus 8mb + 30gb CF Raspberry Pi 3b+ and Amibian 1.4 Mac Mini G4 1GB Ram with the butterfly!! |
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number6
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:33:23
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11663
From: In the village | | |
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| @_ThEcRoW
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How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?. |
OS4 final was released on December 24, 2006. http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3536
#6 _________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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DAX
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:39:15
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 30-Sep-2009 Posts: 2790
From: Italy | | |
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| @pavlor where have you been?? :) _________________ SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4 Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2 AmigaCD 32 |
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Kremlar
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:20:52
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Joined: 12-Aug-2010 Posts: 108
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Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W . |
Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors. |
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TheDaddy
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:26:36
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Joined: 30-Sep-2005 Posts: 4499
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| @Kremlar
>>Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.
Pentium 4 @3.46GHz = 110.7-120W?
Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 07:36 PM. Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 07:27 PM.
_________________ www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
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pavlor
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:36:58
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
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| @Kremlar
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Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors. |
3.4E GHz Pentium 4 (single core) 1484 SpecInt2000 1492 SpecFp2000 TDP: above 100W (not counting needed chipset on motherboard of course)
Next try?  |
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mausle
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:06:04
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Joined: 12-Sep-2003 Posts: 139
From: Unknown | | |
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| @vidarh
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vidarh wrote: @mausle
10 very active core AROS developers is probably about right, plus another 10-20 that commit much more irregularly (I'm in that category - my last commit was beginning of March).
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Yes, i Know, really liked your contrib. As a git user i Look forward to your Progress in this Area.
Ciao |
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Arko
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:40:00
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Joined: 17-Jan-2007 Posts: 1989
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| @pavlor
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The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz
We know the PASemi could be faster but the 970FX could also be a lot faster, Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it.
So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio.
Power consumption: We should talk about it again when the A1X1K laptop will be introduced, this would be the kind of application where the PASemi was designed for.
Last edited by Arko on 18-Apr-2011 at 09:40 PM.
_________________ AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.
I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28): http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0 |
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pavlor
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:54:45
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Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Arko
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The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz |
One of these papers compares 970FX 2 GHz (single core) to PA6T 1.7 GHz (dual core), the other 970FX 2 GHz (two CPUs) and 8641D 1.5 GHz (dual core) and PA6T 2 GHz (dual core).
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Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it. |
Yes, two 970FX CPUs at 2.7 GHz. Most powerful Apple Power Mac G5 model has two 970MP 2.5 GHz CPUs (in summ 4 cores).
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So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio. |
And produces much more noise and heat.  Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 09:58 PM.
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eXec
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:58:30
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Joined: 21-Jun-2004 Posts: 956
From: Burkina Faso | | |
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| @all
Jesus Christ...
What a bunch of nonsenses are most of you debating about. CPUs that are dead, comparing them with some actual (discontinued) CPUs , then what would it be if something else was not to happen, then blame him because he said something that is against something that did not even egsisting but it sounds good and no one can say nothing against that. Not to mention that each post mutates into ppc vs. x86 / hyp vs. cusa circus.
of all this last 3 years of endless nonsenses, flame threads
Hello people... we live in 2011... 68xxx is long time dead, PPC is dead also... Let us be real, leave the past behind and remember it sometimes... stop living in past... what is wrong with you?
What is the current most selling dekstop platform? Most powerfull and most valuable in price/performance? Go, fetch it... Why to go always on harder, longer and more painfull road?
_________________ ____ ...administration is for serious people only.... |
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pavlor
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:01:11
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9660
From: Unknown | | |
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| @eXec
We are using and loving dead computer platform, so I think talk about dead CPUs is OK.
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Why to go always on harder, longer and more painfull road? |
Challenge? |
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eXec
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:03:24
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 21-Jun-2004 Posts: 956
From: Burkina Faso | | |
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| @pavlor
this is the ghost city then...
if so, why need for "modern technologies" via already dead equipment. Dave wrote everything... seems no one listens....
challenge? what for? another agony? another decade of nothing?
_________________ ____ ...administration is for serious people only.... |
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Caveman
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Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000 Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:14:13
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Joined: 16-Feb-2005 Posts: 655
From: Norway | | |
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| @eXec
The land of the living dead?
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