@TheDaddy

Even at 2k I would expect something very special from it. Not just a keyboard but also a monitor.

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@CritAnime

Taking for granted that Barry is serious CUSA leader,
major step forward for Commodore (USA) Amigas is that
they will be high end PCs. Interesting twist and turn,
maybe latest Dopus, Scala MM and Lightwave should be bundled to justify the cause (and the price).

Time will tell how the both low (VIC), mid (C64x) and high end (Commodore USA Amigas) would do with such high overhead charge on licence branding and
software bundle that aren`t that innovative but are well "PR`d". And only high end ones will be able to run AROS.

If CommodoreOS will be out in few months, its interesting to see that AROS, MOS and AmigaOS have also moved ahead, as well as AmigaOne brand. Its not a real competition just because CUSA products aren`t really Amiga related beside the name licence, but is also competing on much harsher and wider global PC market.

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@vox

If these new NotAmigas" are going to be succesful then based on the quality of the build i have seen from the C64x is going to need to improve a lot and i don't mean the case as the quality of that seems fine but they seem to have been thrown together with little thought or knowledge of the thermal requirements of modern computers and for the price of the C64x, one very noisy fan was never going to shift enough air out of the case, not with all those cables hanging around that should have been routed out of the way and under the motherboard where possible. you would think that for the cost of the computer they would have at least supplied a decent quality quiet fan that would fail to cool just as much as a cheap fan will fail to cool. Who ever thought they could cool an i7 with that tiny cheap fan should really consider a simple bit of reading, there is enough information out there, at least they seem to be sending out a second fan to those who request it and although i applaud them for allowing people to fit the fan themselves (although there doesn't seem to be a place to fit it without bodging it in somehow) i think if they intend in competing in the high end pc market their design and building will have to improve quite a lot (especially if they really do intend on selling at a 20k price point)

I'm out of a job right now so if they need somebody who can think these things through properly they can give me a call I'll even design them a duel fan setup for the c64 with some ducting to direct the airflow, that's all it needs.

if they want to sell NotAmigas in europe, building high end gaming PC's will probably work well if done right (not like the commodore gaming fancy case, little else strategy) as long as it was done along side their high end pro series of course.

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@Thread

Well barry has spewed some deatils.


Quote:

here's a typical config for a mid priced new Amiga 1-Case (IMHO, there is nothing better) hope you agree $1000 1-RVD3X2-FHPX4-960G (for OS + Apps) $3000 + 2-NVIDIA Quadro 6000 $7000 + We are already over $11K, and we haven't even talked about memory,hdd storage, cooling, cpu's, motherboards etc. The entry level will be about $2500-5000 then 5-10, then 10-15, 15-20, then $25K+++ We are not planning on competing with Dell ,emachine, and the rest.... Commodore Amiga lineup will be geared for prosumer/pro/business-industrial users.

God bless you Barry you made me laugh.....

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/8551-phone-call-with-barry?lang=en#8569

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@TheMaskedMuchacho

Interesting............

I shall assume thier keyboard cases will be running more than one OS though?

Example wise, a Real amigan may want one for fun to play around with AROS on it?

Either way, AROS would be the closest thing theyd have in Amiga relation for thier product theyd like to sell out on the market.

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@CritAnime

I wish him well in this but i don't have much faith in them to succeed, I hope they prove me wrong.

All I have seen from them so far is a nice well packaged retro case that seems well made from reports but has poorly thought out cooling, some VIC rebranded computers bought in from china and a state of the art OS that seems to have been nothing more than a slightly modified Linux distro not to mention some crazy pricing. I'm sure they have done their research and know what they are getting into. I still don't like the idea of using the amiga brand on computers completely unrelated to anything to do with former amigas though and that website is going to have to lose it's amateur look, it may be just me but it makes my eyes bleed trying to read it.

I'm also not sure the Commodore or Amiga names will hold much weight in the $20k workstation market (or any market other than retro computing) but i'm sure Barry knows better than me or he wouldn't be planning it.

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@TheMaskedMuchacho

I dunno. I think this is just a chance shot. He is putting himself in the same kind of price bracket as top end server and workstation stuff. Even Apple's Mac Pro at full spec is just over $14,000. And that includes 64 gig of ram, 4 2tb hdd's and 2 30 inch monitors. I feel he is hoping that the Amiga name will carry it forward. Though I would put my money on companies like Dell, HP, Cray and Apple.

Good luck to him. Maybe he will pull it off. But I can't see it myself.

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@Gebrochen

As far as i can tell, so far they have supplied ubuntu with the C64x but in future it will come installed with Linux Mint. if you want windows i think you have to supply and install it yourself but i may be mistaken in that and with a little effort you may be able to get OSX to run on them.

I think the market for amiga users wanting to run aros on the commodoreUSA machines will be even smaller than those wanting to run OS4, not many will buy such a machine just to run what is a hobby when they can buy a cheaper computer elsewhere or build one themselves, I don't think the VIC series will sell all that well to Aros users. I do like the C64x case but having seen how they have been assembled and the problems people have had i wouldn't consider a prebuilt one and the bare bones case is way too expensive for what it is when i can use one of my original C64's, a keyrah and a hack saw to make a more authentic modern C64 (but that's just me) although i can see why some with sufficient disposable income would buy them.

My opinion on the quality of the assembly may not be shared with others less fussy but I suggest they take apart some of the big manufacturers small form factor pcs to see how it should be done (I'm not a fan of dell but i liked the way the SX280 was designed and managed to keep a Pentium 4 cool) :P and that C64x does need another fan and some ducting to direct airflow if it's going to have anything more than an atom installed (and even then i think it may be marginal)

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@CritAnime

I think the give away is that he says that he's not competing with Dell yet clearly hasn't noticed that Dell also sell High end workstations and I don't think he will have the buying power to beat Dell or Apple on price or the ability to sell in the same kind of numbers they do so he must be hoping that the name will carry it.

CommodoreUSA confuse me more every time they speak and remind me more and more of a local small time PC builder building sub standard computers that just happens to have a big name from the past to back their lofty ideas, I really don't see how he can pull the high end workstation thing off, those markets require a lot of respect for a manufacturer, they won't buy from just anybody and won't be fooled into thinking CommodoreUSA is the same commodore that used to be a big powerful force in the computer world 20 plus years ago (but never really in the workstation market), they will take one look and go back to IBM, HP, Dell or Apple.

CommodoreUSA may have the commodore and Amiga Names but they don't carry enough weight these days to allow them to hit the ground running and I can imagine them tripping up if they try it.

I still try to believe Barry knows what he's doing but every time i learn something new about CommodoreUSA it gets harder.

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@TheMaskedMuchacho

Cool and interesting, considering I only use Linux / Amiga at home use...........

Thing that annoys me is their branding, I would have atleast expecte them to ship out duel boot machines with Linux / AROS to choose from from the boot prompt, so that the Linux market may actually like using the alternative OS in some cases, be it even for hobby or show off purposes................

Cheers

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@TheMaskedMuchacho

I think this latest set of news has upset some people inside camp CUSA. Seems like people are starting to voice their concerns about the direction that things are heading in, judging by reactions to the pricings.

I don't honestly think that he has fully grasped the current scope the modern computer market. Like you I feel he is hoping that the Commodore name will be enough for people to pay attention. I also don't think he realises that most big companies will have multimillion pound contracts with companies like Dell and Apple to supply them cheaper if bought in bulk. I know the company I work for has a very lucrative contract with Dell to supply them with everything from desktops to workstations.

Your observation about the small time PC builder made me chuckle. We had a guy in our home town that was like that. Built cheap PC's but tried to sell them at an inflated charge. Claiming labour charges were involved. Which seems to be CUSA's main argument.

Inside I was hoping that they would prove me wrong. That all the ribbing would be in vain. However it seems like they are just digging themselves a bigger hole.

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@CritAnime

Oh thats news to me, I thought they were trying to get out of an existing hole already?

ANd now your telling me they're digging a hole...........strange......would have thought they would try and avoid themselves getting into a black hole to the point of no return!

haha

Cheers

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@Gebrochen

Oh I know about the hole. But it seems like they have taken a JCB to it now.

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I don't even know what to say about that price announcement. I work for places that buy machines like he's aiming to sell and they do not buy from little manufacturers. They have giant corporate (probably exclusive) deals with the likes of HP. Sadly, I think CUSA will be done soon... and I sooooo wanted a retro Amiga 500 case.

@CritAnime

Quote:

CritAnime wrote: @Gebrochen Oh I know about the hole. But it seems like they have taken a JCB to it now.

As a nice product to hobbyists, he had a chance for a small income from replica cases.
Selling major services to big business, he doesn't have a whelk's chance in a supernova of success. It takes years of brandbuilding to be big in the business sector, if large companies like AMD have been struggling for 20 or more years, how does he seriously expect to succeed in one year?

And if he really thinks he's not competing with Dell..... does he even know what Dell sell? They are precisely his market. How can anyone compete in a market without knowing who is in it?

I'd say he's not just used a JCB, he's used Dynamite and blown both his feet off at the same time. Just to be sure.

@Spirantho

Quote:

It takes years of brandbuilding to be big in the business sector ...

The commodore brand is still very well known so they do not need to start from scratch with a new company name and the brand building. If you hear commodore you know that it has sth to do with computers. There are statistics around about old brandnames and their value today, should look out for one regarding commodore ...

@CritAnime

Quote:

God bless you Barry you made me laugh..... http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/8551-phone-call-with-barry?lang=en#8569

The things I don't get about the joke are:
1) If this stuff is intended for the "prosumer/pro/business-industrial" market, then why do his acolytes keep hawking his wares on what are really hobbyist forums?
2) Business-industrial users are keeping a tighter watch on costs than ever. They will expect a computer to "just work" using industry standard software. That means Windows or OSX, not some themed Linux distro.

When we have all given our opinions, Barry's success or failure will depend on simple facts

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@Naz

Quote:

Naz wrote: @Spirantho Quote: It takes years of brandbuilding to be big in the business sector ... The commodore brand is still very well known so they do not need to start from scratch with a new company name and the brand building. If you hear commodore you know that it has sth to do with computers. There are statistics around about old brandnames and their value today, should look out for one regarding commodore ...

Those statistics are relevant to the hobbyist market only.
Try finding a businessman who would even consider a professional system just because it's called Commodore. The last time CBM had a serious business share was in the late 70's with the PET; since then it's been a personal computer brand.

I can tell you right now how much the Commodore name is worth to a big business: $0.00. Or in British money, £0.00.

Remember the old saying: "nobody ever got fired for buying from IBM" - it still holds true today.

@Nimrod

Indeed, I'd expect the IT department of any business would be wary of a new player, and perhaps do a little Googling to find out more about them. Chances are that'll show up all the complaints about poor build quality in the C64x, maybe even the personal posts from their CTO on the forums. And, as other have said, they'll be hard pressed to beat Dell and the others on the economies of scale they enjoy from the component manufacturers. And the names (either Commodore or Amiga) aren't going to carry with IT departments either - the younger ones won't know the name and will research it, and the older ones will think of all-in-one computers that lived on people's living room floors in front of the TV, as far away from an industrial setting as you can get.

The company I work for (~200 employees, clinical and hospital equipment) use Dell for everything, from the almost disposable office workstations, to the dual Xeon-based CAD workstations, to the rugged PCs controlling our instruments, all the way up to everything in our server room, including backup power, cabling and racks as well as the servers themselves. There's no way they'd even entertain the idea of letting another manufacturer in unless they could massively undercut the existing deal. I just don't see how this can work at all...

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@Daedalus

The same as the company I work for i.e. DELL hardware from laptops to servers.

Last edited by Hammer on 22-Sep-2011 at 10:47 AM.

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