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eliyahu
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Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 15:57:03
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1958
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| guys,
i've noticed many people in the broader amiga NG community consider boot time to be among the 'features' of their respective platforms when compared with mainstream platforms such as windows or linux. i've also considered the ability to start my SAM in seconds to be a nice feature as well, especially when compared with my sun workstations or PCs.
this was recently also brought up here; so as not to pollute that thread further, i thought we might talk about it separately in this forum where it belongs. i'll get the ball rolling, and feel free to pitch in with your own 'benchmark' numbers, tips, and friendly comments:
Quote:
system: SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz; WD 480GB 7200rpm SATA hard drive modifications: startup-sequence has additions necessary for prism2 driver start versions: latest u-boot from acube; AmigaOS 4.1u4
from power-on until SLB launch: 11.9 sec from SLB launch to kickstart load: 0.8 sec from kickstart load to startup screen: 4.7 sec from startup screen to workbench launch: 15.5 sec
cold start total: 32.9 sec cold start (less u-boot): 21.0 sec warm start total: 15.5 sec |
it would appear from this that the dominant actor is u-boot taking a whopping twelve seconds to sense the hardware and hand-off to the SLB. and that's with me mucking about to set the pause to the minimal one second to allow the user to pull up the settings menu. yikes. i've made certain DMA is enabled eveerywhere, but i suspect that doesn't matter to u-boot.
any useful ideas to get that number lower, or any constructive comments welcome. your numbers on your amiga NG would be even more so!
note: this thread is not intended for the negative nellies around here to demonstrate how terrible OS4 is, or how pathetic amiga is, or how intelligent they are, or how PCs are so much better, etc., etc. we've had quite enough from you lot and would appreciate you slinking off back to moo where you belong. thanks in advance....
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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danwood
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:50:34
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Super Member |
Joined: 30-Sep-2008 Posts: 1059
From: Unknown | | |
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| @eliyahu
Make sure all the delay timings (waiting for prefs/boot options) in uboot are set to 0.
Os4.1 boot has slowed down considerably since update 3 though, up 1/2 would boot from warm in around 5 seconds for me, after up3/4 it's more Like 15. My win 7 PC and my Amiga are pretty much identical boot times now so I wouldnt say it's so much of a feature now. |
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Tomas
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:53:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Jul-2003 Posts: 4286
From: Unknown | | |
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| @danwood Even with timers set to 0 it is extremely slow imo.
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Karlos
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 16:58:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Aug-2003 Posts: 4402
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition! | | |
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| Maybe it's just me, but I stopped caring about reboot speeds a long time ago. I'd much rather work without rebooting ;)
Besides, my vanilla OS3.0 A1200 circa 1996 could warm boot in about 4 seconds (Seagate Medallist, Apollo 1240@25MHz + 8MB 60ns - a beast in those days). _________________ Doing stupid things for fun... |
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number6
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 17:09:56
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11587
From: In the village | | |
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| @eliyahu
Just a general rule, to be safe:
I suggest you make a system changes text file for your personal system. Make a note of any setting/file etc. that you alter in its present state, as well as a note indicating the change that you made.
This will give you an easy fallback should any issues arise with future changes to the operating system. Too many times I've heard "I should have made a note of what I did".
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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Mechanic
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 19:53:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Jul-2003 Posts: 2007
From: Unknown | | |
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| @eliyahu
This has been discussed elsewhere, and against my better judgement I'll mention it here.
In S:Startup-sequence, copy the whole line that begins C:AddNetinterface..... and paste it just below the line C:LoadWB.
Then put a semicolon ; in front of the original line ;C:AddNetinterface..... Save it. Do a soft CTRL+A+A OS reboot.
If in the future you think this is causing problems, just move the ; around.
Should save 3-5 seconds.....depending. |
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TheDaddy
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 19:58:38
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-Sep-2005 Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle | | |
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| @Mechanic
Indeed it was the Mech who told me
Thanks again.
I have managed to reduce it to 15.3 secs with ChrisH's help (DMA enabled).
_________________ www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
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BillE
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:13:30
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Super Member |
Joined: 14-Nov-2003 Posts: 1195
From: Northern Scotland | | |
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| @eliyahu
My XE is similar, booting in about 25-30 seconds from cold. I still think it is too slow but I am impatient.
Though the reason I do turn on a computer is to do something with it and not watch it start up.
My wifes laptop is a nightmare, it takes ages to start up and crawls along when it does finally start.
I have a Mac mini and never use it now because it is so slow to boot up, I can have logged into my ISP and got in my emails and started brwsing before the Mac has even got to its equivalent of workbench. It has the same CPU as my XE but is so low in operation in comparison even after the long boot time has crawled through.
IMHO boot time is VERY important. It is a pity that Windoze and Mac dominate and people have become acustomed to long boot times
Last edited by BillE on 29-Jan-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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OldFart
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:47:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Sep-2004 Posts: 3060
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat! | | |
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| @eliyahu
Quote:
i've noticed many people in the broader amiga NG community consider boot time to be among the 'features' of their respective platforms when compared with mainstream platforms such as windows or linux. |
Well, one has to believe in *something* to justify his decisions, doesn't he? Ok, lets talk about something quite different: closing down times. Amiga: flick of a switch c.q. push of a button (i.e. pulling the plug from the socket). I take joy and pride into it taking no more then a split second. What's your's (generally speaking)?
Oldfart_________________ More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed! |
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OldFart
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 20:52:24
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Sep-2004 Posts: 3060
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat! | | |
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| @Mechanic
Changed my S-S to this:
; $VER: Startup-Sequence 53.1 (08.04.2009) ;C:SetPatch QUIET C:SetPatch ADDCHIPRAM=2 QUIET
FailAt 21
C:Version >NIL: SetEnv Workbench $Workbench SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart UnSet Workbench UnSet Kickstart
C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards
C:Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T C:Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards C:Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:KeyMaps C:Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers C:Assign >NIL: REXX: S:ARexx C:Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER C:Assign >NIL: AMISSL: DEVS:AmiSSL DEFER C:Assign >NIL: GHOSTSCRIPT: SYS:Utilities/GhostScript DEFER C:Assign >NIL: PYTHON: SYS:System/Python
C:LoadMonDrvs C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET C:IPrefs
C:Mount QUIET DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info) ;C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info) ;Run >NIL: C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info)
Path RAM: C: S:Shell S:ARexx SYS:Utilities SYS:Utilities/Commodities SYS:System SYS:Prefs
C:ConClip ;SYS:System/RexxMast >NIL: Run >NIL: SYS:System/RexxMast >NIL:
C:LoadWB
C:USBCtrl START
If EXISTS S:User-Startup Execute S:User-Startup EndIf
Run >NIL: C:AddNetInterface QUIET DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info) ;Run >NIL: *>NIL: C:SoundPlayer QUIET
EndCLI >NIL:
and my U-S to:
;BEGIN MUI If EXISTS SYS:MUI C:Assign >NIL: MUI: SYS:MUI C:Assign >NIL: ADD LIBS: MUI:Libs C:Assign >NIL: ADD LOCALE: MUI:Locale C:Assign >NIL: ADD HELP: MUI:Docs EndIf ;END MUI
;assign tbimages: SYS:Prefs/Presets/tbimages
; ==========================================
If EXISTS ExtSYS:S Assign S: ExtSYS:S ADD
If EXISTS S:ExtSYS-StartUp Execute S:ExtSYS-StartUp EndIf EndIf
; ========================================== ; === End of List ========================== ; ==========================================
The short of it: it works... And doesn't take too much tie.
OldFart Last edited by OldFart on 29-Jan-2012 at 08:53 PM.
_________________ More then three levels of indigestion and you're scroomed! |
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redfox
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:07:19
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Elite Member |
Joined: 7-Mar-2003 Posts: 2066
From: Canada | | |
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| @eliyahu
Approximately 45 seconds from cold boot to fully functional Workbench with AmiDock and LimpidClock. LimpidClock is set for STARTPRI=-128 so it comes up after the system is stable.
Please note that I am using auto-discovery and (by default) PIO mode for both my HD and combo drive.
Also I am using the default U-Boot delays.
I quit using U-DMA with my Western Digital 250 GB HD about a year ago.
redfox MicroA1 + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Last edited by redfox on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:26 PM.
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tonyw
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:18:39
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course) | | |
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| @OldFart
If you have changed the AddNetInterface to a "Run ... AddNetInterface", then it doesn't matter where it is in the S-S any more. It may as well be back where it was originally.
_________________ cheers tony
Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php |
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Deniil715
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:19:03
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-May-2003 Posts: 4236
From: Sweden | | |
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| @eliyahu
How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??! That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE.
Kickstart loading takes about 7-8 seconds, then another 2-3 second for kickstart to initialize before displaying the logo and AmigaOS boot begins. That is about 9-11 seconds for me
For you, having a slower machine, it would indicate loading kickstart only takes about 1-2 seconds.
@Tomas & danwood
Also make sure you set serial speed to the maximum, which is 115200 on the A1-XE. U-Boot must wait for all (or most) text to be written to the serial, so if this is default (9600) it will take much longer than needed. Last edited by Deniil715 on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:24 PM.
_________________ - Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes) > Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft. |
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Mechanic
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:20:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Jul-2003 Posts: 2007
From: Unknown | | |
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| @OldFart
I see you also moved USB till after LoadWB. Cool
The point is that it is possible to do things for faster load time, and there is no reason not to at least try things ( one at a time ) as they can be changed back even if it means booting from CD to do it. Try that on other systems.
Another tip is to comment out ; things not used on your system in Kicklayout. No sense in loading, for example, the 'lsi53c8xx.device.kmod' if you do not have a SCSI card or on-board SCSI chip that uses that Module. No Voodoo card? Comment it out. Made an OOPS? Remove the semicolon.
My 440ep cold boots to WB in 22-23 seconds. Which is more than fast enough for me since I hardly ever do more than a OS reboot, and... you can still get to the EarlyStartup Menu from there if playing around with the OS or need to boot from a different partition.
How the heck do you boot from a different partition in.........whatever? |
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KimmoK
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:43:28
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-Mar-2003 Posts: 5211
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland | | |
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| My warm boot up time is about 13 seconds, but not all tricks are in use yet. SAM440ep+60GB Seagate momentus 2,5".
For some reason, the system locks up to black screen if I push reset button or ctrl+alt+alt. So, if I want cold reboot I have to reach for the power button. Pretty annoying. Anyone faced that kind of "feature"? Some uboot variable mixup???
+for memory refresh How is the DMA set "permanently" on?
+ does anyone know if there is any chance to get DMA enabled/supported in uboot? _________________ - KimmoK // For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA // // Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer? |
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Mechanic
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 21:48:40
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Jul-2003 Posts: 2007
From: Unknown | | |
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| @tonyw
Quote:
tonyw wrote: @OldFart
If you have changed the AddNetInterface to ..
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Speaking of AddNetinterface.
If you wish to see what is going on with the network startup add these two lines to S:Startup-sequence just below the original.
C:AddNetinterface DEVS:NetInterfaces/~(#?.info) C:wait 5
The first line is like the original with the QUIET removed. Be sure to comment out the original while doing this and then comment out these lines if not needed and reactivate the original.
Last edited by Mechanic on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:50 PM. Last edited by Mechanic on 29-Jan-2012 at 09:49 PM.
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eliyahu
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 29-Jan-2012 23:13:38
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1958
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @Deniil715
Quote:
How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??! That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE.
Kickstart loading takes about 7-8 seconds, then another 2-3 second for kickstart to initialize before displaying the logo and AmigaOS boot begins. That is about 9-11 seconds for me |
i don't know how to explain the timing. i just measure things.
in truth a few kernel modules are commented out in my kicklayout file as i have no need for them. specifically, i have commented out:
Quote:
;MODULE Kickstart/FastFileSystem ;MODULE Kickstart/JXFileSystem ;MODULE Kickstart/gameport.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/it8212ide.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/lsi53c8xx.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/sii0680ide.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/sii3112ide.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/sii3512ide.device.kmod ;MODULE Kickstart/3dfxVoodoo.chip ;MODULE Kickstart/bootmouse.usbfd ;MODULE Kickstart/bootkeyboard.usbfd ;MODULE Kickstart/uhci.usbhcd ;MODULE Kickstart/i2c.resource.kmod |
i should also point out that the SAMs tend to boot rather quickly if properly configured. i've seen a pegasos2 boot OS4 and it was agonizingly slow in comparison. which certainly isn't down to the hardware -- morphOS booted on that system in a flash. but certain things do just 'feel' quick on the SAM in many respects such as workbench responsiveness. maybe a u-boot expert could chime in if DMA is enabled once the SLB launches?
but it does seem odd that my kickstart load and launch is nearly half what yours is. that doesn't make much sense to a noob like me.
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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Deniil715
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 30-Jan-2012 9:00:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 14-May-2003 Posts: 4236
From: Sweden | | |
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| @eliyahu
I didn't comment out quite that many modules. But most of these are fairly small anyway so shouldn't make that much difference.
Only thing I can think of is that SATA cannot run as slow as PATA/IDE. Perhaps SATA's slowest mode, or default mode, is about 4-8 times faster than PATA/PIO-0 or something..?
Just hope the X1000 isn't as slow as the old A1s. That would be embarrasing.. If the X1000 can load kickstart in say 1 second, then it would probably be able to do the initialization in 1 second. That would be nice. Of course, loading kickstart in 1 second is still dead slow. Should be 0.1s, but 1 is good enough. _________________ - Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes) > Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft. |
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m3x
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 30-Jan-2012 9:45:48
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-May-2003 Posts: 311
From: Bologna, Italy | | |
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| @Deniil715
Quote:
How could you get kickstart loading plus initialization to 4.7 second??! That would indicate that the Sam U-Boot (or whatever it has) doesn't use the dreaded PIO-0 mode like on the A1-XE. |
U-boot on Sam440ep/Sam460ex use PIO-4._________________ Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3 |
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fishy_fis
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Re: Amiga NG Startup Timing Posted on 30-Jan-2012 10:54:03
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 2159
From: Australia | | |
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| My AROS box takes about 10 second from power on until a fully functioning OS is up and running. BIOS post takes 4 seconds, grub delays for 1 second, and OS boots to fully usable in another 5. Warm reboot is about 2 seconds.
I could of course speed up this boot time if I did any optimisations to loaded modules and u-s/s-s, but its quick enough for me already so didnt bother :)
Last edited by fishy_fis on 30-Jan-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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