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cheesegrate
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:11:59
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Joined: 30-Apr-2007 Posts: 259
From: Australia | | |
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| @amigadave
Quote:
IIRC, Ben Hermanns is no longer a partner of A-Eon, |
With a single vision of trevor the company can move forward, the question is who is paying for the x1000 dev work, hyperion or amigakit?
_________________ "ICE CREAM, ICE CREAM!" - Speedball 2.
"Look behind you, a three-headed monkey!" - Monkey Island |
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number6
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:19:17
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11540
From: In the village | | |
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| @gerograph
I suggest you write to Jamie Krüger and get his feelings about what it would take for him to finish AVD.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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vox
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:28:19
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia | | |
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| @amigadave
All above make sense, but what seems to be most missing are documentation and tutorials. Also yes, more bounties, systems and real deep info for pro coders about both OS and target HW.
After that, even easier programming languages that have limited but some results and are visually oriented would be most interesting to take existing users with little knowledge (or future users) to develop as mid solution.
But best would be as suggested as "A-EON software", setting small but focused software only company with Hyperion help to focus on developing top priority apps (and maybe port a game from time to time :)
Even such great products like X1000 are dead without apps to use it. _________________ Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! |
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vox
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:34:10
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Elite Member |
Joined: 12-Jun-2005 Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia | | |
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| @cheesegrate
Quote:
With a single vision of trevor the company can move forward, the question is who is paying for the x1000 dev work, hyperion or amigakit? _________________ |
Please be more constructive and try to add positively to discussion. Surely you can say a lot more things then such questions, and if you must, direct them to AmiKit and A-EON representatives at PM. Hyperion took role of software developer and will be getting money from X1000 OS4 licences, so they should be paying first if that is theoretical answer to your question._________________ Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! |
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Fab
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:36:09
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Super Member |
Joined: 17-Mar-2004 Posts: 1178
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Zylesea
Despite many flaws due to its age and design, AmigaOS API is still superior in many ways to what we can see in other OSes (to name a few: Win32 API, GTK absolute nonsense and Unix posix braindeadness in general).
As for programming in C++, there's really no particular issue doing so with MUI. Just a few precautions with the set/get defines, and that's it, basically. Of course, C++ requires a bit more casting here and there, but that's a detail.
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Tomppeli
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 14:42:01
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Super Member |
Joined: 18-Jun-2004 Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki | | |
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| @amigadave
Money from monthly salary. _________________ Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE "Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray |
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Belxjander
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 15:06:42
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Joined: 4-Jan-2005 Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan | | |
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| @ amigadave
as a returning developer the main lack of support I see is complete examples using only what is provided with the OS itself (walk through examples using the AOS4NDK)
@ opi
your thoughts with regards Virtual Machines are not exactly accurate but the existing Virtual Machines on AmigaOS systems are all dedicated for non-OS environments...( WHDLoad is one example )
@ dangerman
I'm returning to AmigaOS development having learned to program on Amiga OS 2.0 and 3.1 using the RKRM 3rd Edition, and there is definitely a lack of equal material for the 4th OS release currently.
also the lack of any clear distinction between the different flavours of OS when programming is also an inherited drawback let alone the variations in developer tools and the reliance on automation... ( AOS3 + PowerUp and WarpUp variations / AOS4 NG / MOS PowerUP+WarpUP / AROS .... )
I'll be writing a clear example of how to produce an Amiga OS shared library as one of the first things I do on obtaining an AmigaOS4.x machine so that there is some flow from the RKRM 3rd edition and earlier material into the current latest version of the OS...
And from my own experience the whole attitude of the existing developers with regards the materials that are available for cross-compiling to the platform from outside...
just *ugh* is seriously understating the problem,
just my opinion but the current toolkits as available ( AmiDevCpp with GCC ) are not supported by the available examples ( os4depot.net / ptplay.library using VBCC!?!? wheres a GCC example!? )
the SDK includes GCC... this is a good thing... that very same GCC has only Linux documentation!?!? or not definite clear "this is amiga only" markers for any of the options...
new developers are not going to see anything that makes the Amiga "special" other than the attrocious learning curve... ( I'm having trouble with that one and I'm already familiar with the OS! )
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itix
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 15:15:01
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @Fab
Quote:
As for programming in C++, there's really no particular issue doing so with MUI. Just a few precautions with the set/get defines, and that's it, basically. Of course, C++ requires a bit more casting here and there, but that's a detail.
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Yeah. But it is not very clean when you have OO inside OO. There is one OO too much._________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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AmiDog
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:07:29
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Cult Member |
Joined: 1-Jun-2004 Posts: 917
From: Kumla, Sweden | | |
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| What *I* would like to have is an official, free and supported cross-SDK supporting Cygwin and i686 Linux, and which includes some kind of virtual machine (which should include a minimal special edition of the operating system). THAT would make life a lot easier for all developers.
Currently none of the three (or four, if you count Classic OS3.x) camps have bothered to do it AFAIK...
And lets face it, it's not only annoying and time consuming to have to use a specific piece of hardware for each Amiga-ish operating system in order to have an up-to-date and supported SDK to work with, it's also expensive.
If it weren't for people like Zerohero, I would have lost all interest in Amiga coding a long time ago. Really, it should be the responsibility of the people who develop the OS to make sure developers have a way of building and testing their applications, they shouldn't just look the other way and hope some third party does their work for them.
Time to learn from Android and others? |
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Karlos
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:08:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Aug-2003 Posts: 4394
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition! | | |
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number6
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:40:09
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11540
From: In the village | | |
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| @amigadave
Quote:
IIRC, Ben Hermanns is no longer a partner of A-Eon, since they reformed in the UK and closed the Belgium based company. AmigaKit is now a partner of A-Eon. |
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Wellington, 25th January 2012 |
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A-EON Technology appointed AmigaKit as its primary distributor for all its AmigaONE products. |
If what you say is true, why would A-EON announce this instead of announcing the new/current members of their partnership?
Also, it would preferable if you supply a link or information concerning your source to what you have posted, as opposed to an "IIRC".
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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eliyahu
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:44:23
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @number6
Quote:
If what you say is true, why would A-EON announce this instead of announcing the new/current members of their partnership?
Also, it would preferable if you supply a link or information concerning your source to what you have posted, as opposed to an "IIRC". |
during his amiwest 2011 presentation, trevor mentioned A-EON was being re-incorporated in britain and that matthew leaman had become a partner. i don't recall if he mentioned ben was remaining as a partner in the newly formed venture or not; i also had the same recollection as dave, that he was not, but i cannot remember if that was in a side-conversation or not.
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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opi
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:44:32
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Team Member |
Joined: 2-Mar-2005 Posts: 2752
From: Poland | | |
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| @Belxjander
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your thoughts with regards Virtual Machines are not exactly accurate but the existing Virtual Machines on AmigaOS systems are all dedicated for non-OS environments...( WHDLoad is one example ) |
That's now what I had in mind. A developer can't run an instance of AmigaOS in a VM. He needs to obtain real hardware for it._________________ OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI! |
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clusteruk
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:46:45
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Super Member |
Joined: 20-Nov-2008 Posts: 1544
From: Marston Moretaine, England | | |
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| As a windows/Android/iOS developer, I want to program Amiga for fun but I need developer tools as I am a bit lazy and cannot spare the time without decent tools. However, the real thing I want is a full debugger so I can step through code and look at values of variable etc.
On top of this documentation, fairly obvious really.
On the VM part, we have Aros that runs nicely in a VM and therefore if we had ZUNE on all platforms then that could be the introduction route that costs nothing.
Hence, Aros for Rasberry Pi, it is selling for software education and once Aros is on it, we can try and convince people to use it. Then if they can cross develop with it to OS4 and MorphOS then everyone wins. Remember, $35 for an Aros powered computer with Linux thrown in as well.
_________________ Amiga 1000, 3000D Toaster, Checkmate A1500 Plus http://www.checkmate1500plus.com/ |
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eliyahu
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:47:30
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @opi
as a quick aside, it's nice to see you posting again lately. we've missed you around here.
-- eliyahu _________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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g_kraszewski
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:53:19
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Regular Member |
Joined: 3-Sep-2010 Posts: 343
From: Unknown | | |
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| @amigadave
After reading through the thread I have one idea. It was mentioned multiple times, that lack of documentation is one of main obstacles. What about bounties for documentation? It works for me and MorphZone Library. I guess you've seen MorphOS Developer Guide. 90% of this document is my work done for a bounty. I can do much more at this field for a reasonable amount of money. Not only for MorphOS.
This is also one of few examples of succesfull bounties. The main problem with "big" bounties in Amiga world is that goals are way too big. Not compared to money raised, but to what one person can do in reasonable timeframe. To make bounties succesfull you have to: 1. Modularize bounties. Split them into smaller, well defined units. 2. Require reusability. Most of "big" goals have subgoals, which may be implemented as shared libraries, or MUI/ReAction/Reggae classes and then reused in other projects. Require that such components are made reusable for free (or require them to be opensourced with permissive licence) for other programmers, properly documented and tested.
From my personal point of view it looks like this. I have a main job, but it is not enough to feed the family budget. Then I have some additional auxiliary jobs, which keep my money at some reasonable level. I would be more than happy if Amiga programming (or writing programming tutorials, why not) may replace some (or maybe even all) of those additional short-term jobs. But to make it happen, it must provide comparable money flow and certainity of getting (assuming the job is done) this money must be at similar level. That's all.
_________________ RastPort |
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number6
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 16:55:22
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Elite Member |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11540
From: In the village | | |
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| @eliyahu
Quote:
during his amiwest 2011 presentation, trevor mentioned A-EON was being re-incorporated in britain and that matthew leaman had become a partner. |
From A-Eon Amiwest news releases on their home page:
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A-EON Technology is pleased to announce it has formed a new strategic alliance with AmigaKit, the official distributor of the AmigaOne X1000. As part of this alliance, AmigaKit will jointly fund new AmigaOne hardware developments and will market all future products. |
Does a strategic alliance equal Amigakit becoming a partner, in the same way as Ben Hermans and Anthony Moorley, when the original partnership was formed?
#6
Last edited by number6 on 05-Feb-2012 at 09:14 PM.
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
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eliyahu
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 17:01:02
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Super Member |
Joined: 3-Mar-2010 Posts: 1957
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA) | | |
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| @number6
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Does a strategic alliance equal Amigakit becoming a partner, in the same way as Ben Hermans and Anthony Moorley, when the original partnersip was formed? |
i would think so. matthew wanted to be a part of systems development, is buying into the business, etc. that's sounds the same to me. and that was the impression i got at amiwest in any case.
of course i could very well be wrong. perhaps matthew or trevor could clarify if folks are interested?
-- eliyahu
_________________ "Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal." |
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Thematic
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 17:24:53
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Super Member |
Joined: 28-Oct-2003 Posts: 1616
From: I'm actually flying into a bug! | | |
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| Not everyone who might be interested ever hears about these things. Marketing was neglected for the last 20 years, no surprise there.
_________________ : AmigaOneXE (unmod.) 750FX/512 MB +stuff & AmigaOS 4.(0|1) : A1200/68060&96MB/SCSI/EM1200-Voodoo3 & OS 3.5 : A500/1MB : Pegasos (ff) 512 MB & MorphOS Praise seitan. |
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Amiga_3k
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Re: What will it take? Is money the answer? Posted on 5-Feb-2012 21:45:19
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Cult Member |
Joined: 17-Jun-2006 Posts: 833
From: Ohrid, Macedonia | | |
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| @amigadave
Quote:
amigadave wrote:
IIRC, Ben Hermanns is no longer a partner of A-Eon, since they reformed in the UK and closed the Belgium based company. AmigaKit is now a partner of A-Eon.
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Must have been under a rock for a while... I totally missed out on this 'news'. Can someone point me where I can find out more about this?_________________ Back home... |
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