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      /  They are hitting hard, here
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AmigaBlitter 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 11:50:19
#41 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@TrevorDick

another article, a real joke for hyperion this time.

http://www.appuntidigitali.it/17143/amigaone-x1000-proiettato-verso-il-futuro-supporto-a-seriali-e-pata/

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kas1e 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 12:01:54
#42 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3527
From: Russia

@AmigaBlitter

Thats how anyone outside think about all of this. I do not know why that mess with strange releases starts .. Firstly update5 for only x1000, now some strange update again, later will be update5 for others, with mess of update over update over update over update over update over update.

Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 04:57 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 12:04 PM.

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mbrantley 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 12:44:13
#43 ]
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Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 556
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

I don't know, kas1e. I think they should release the much-needed hardware drivers for specific machines as they are ready and not delay them for some future platform-wide release of the OS. It doesn't matter what they call these driver releases.

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kas1e 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 12:52:56
#44 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3527
From: Russia

@mbrantley

That pata drivers for outside word its not much-needed hardware drivers : thats why author of article laugh at it. And its understanable. As OS updates its something major most of time, users outside monitor amiga sites, see big news "amigaos update for x1000 ! ", and when they come to it, they found just pata driver.

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mbrantley 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 13:25:40
#45 ]
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Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 556
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

@kas1e

Let 'em laugh. I will use the PATA capability when I get my X1000. I've used the serial port on my Sam440 too, so glad they've got that working for the X1000 too. Obviously SATA was more important and wisely released first, with the shipping machines.

I'm most anxious for onboard sound and ethernet drivers, as that'll free up the legacy PCI slots, for which I have my own plans. Whenever those drivers are ready, I hope and expect that Hyperion/AEON will do the same as what was just done -- release the drivers to users after they have been tested and then put out the news on the Amiga websites. No need to save up these things for some larger, future OS update.

I suspect AOS 4.2 will get all the hardware platforms in sync with a standard OS release. Meanwhile, let's get the hardware drivers out as they are ready -- because there is hardware in the field that is not fully supported. We asked for faster updates, and we're getting those.

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wawa 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 13:41:41
#46 ]
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Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@kas1e

whats wrong with this update? and how should this be released for other hardware when its x1k hardware specific drivers? of course its not such a big deal, just two simple drivers that should have been accompanying hardware when shipped to begin with. id rather call it quick fix or something, but stuff should be released immediately when its ready and available imho. it has to be tested by consumers either way so no reason to hold things back. otherwise i agree that updated should be released as isos, just to copy them over the running system, as it is with aros nightlies.

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Mechanic 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 14:19:48
#47 ]
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Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@mbrantley

Quote:

mbrantley wrote:

I hope and expect that Hyperion/AEON will do the same as what was just done -- release the drivers to users after they have been tested and then put out the news on the Amiga websites. No need to save up these things for some larger, future OS update.

We asked for faster updates, and we're getting those.


I agree.

You also have to consider that you can have 100 people test something but user number 101 may find some little bug due to a difference in equipment and a full .iso would be a pain in the neck.

Small updates work well. Especially for functions available, but not yet fully supported. Put everything into a full iso and finding a bug could increase the chance of looking in the wrong place for the problem.

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Spectre660 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 14:24:16
#48 ]
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Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3891
From: Unknown

@mbrantley

Totally agree with you.

This is the only way drivers for new machines can catch up in the same OS 4.x versions across different machines.

Quote:

mbrantley wrote:
I don't know, kas1e. I think they should release the much-needed hardware drivers for specific machines as they are ready and not delay them for some future platform-wide release of the OS. It doesn't matter what they call these driver releases.

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kas1e 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 14:28:46
#49 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3527
From: Russia

@mbrantley
Quote:

let's get the hardware drivers out as they are ready -- because there is hardware in the field that is not fully supported. We asked for faster updates, and we're getting those.


That way is better sure, just it should be then like this all the time, for all the HW. Not like one time for x1000, with calling it "update", while drivers can be just released as sam460 onboard driver on os4depot, and some topic like "new driver for x1000". Because call it as update, just mess the things, and ppls outside will laugh. The point, is to not mess everything . If we have updates: then it should be "updates", if it quick fixes, they should be quick fixes. Sure does not matter how to call it, but at least we all know why ppls outside laugh. They come to sites, read "updates", know that "updates" its something big in amiga world, and then there is simply driver, what of course kind of strange for persons who just follow to updates.

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OldFart 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 15:27:17
#50 ]
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From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@mbrantley

+1!

Quote:
It doesn't matter what they call these driver releases.

In the past this kind of releases was called QuickFix, which seems about right to me. However, they should only be applied when a full update is nowhere near a release.

OldFart

Last edited by OldFart on 26-Apr-2012 at 03:28 PM.

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thinkchip 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 15:29:48
#51 ]
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Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1177
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@kas1e

I don't get your point. There are plenty of examples of companies releasing driver updates for particular hardware. Nobody considers it unprofessional. Nobody cares except for the people with that hardware.

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Xenic 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 15:51:29
#52 ]
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Joined: 2-Feb-2004
Posts: 1246
From: Pennsylvania, USA

@thinkchip
Good point. My ethernet WiFi adapter just D/L an update and self-installed it yesterday. After reading kas1e's comment I checked the Netgear WEB site and that update was not for any of their other ethernet or USB WiFi adapters. I didn't see a list of changes either. How horrible!

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Mechanic 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 15:52:54
#53 ]
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Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@kas1e

And you are HERE stating your views. Not on some want-to-be website picking on semantics as a topic of great importance for a complete article. I would hate to fart around that person and then find a four page rant about it on some meaningless website the next day. (If it would take that long to punch out more miserable drivel.)

But for you my friend. What is the value of being Russian if you can not be miserable?

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Spirantho 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 15:55:32
#54 ]
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Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

Surely if Hyperion manage to make drivers that are mature enough to release for the X1000 then it's a goodthing? OK, so it's only PATA and serial, but they're a lot simpler than other drivers so it makes sense to get them out of the way.

And of course you have to release an update only for a particular machine; the alternative is that they hang on till every platform has an advance before releasing the udpate, which is crazy. Why should the X1000 owners go without PATA just because they've not made any updates for the Pegasos 2 (for example)?

Hyperion are doing the right thing - releasing patches which are stand-alone (i.e. new drivers) bit by bit, and then doing a large patch when it encompasses core parts of the OS. That's exactly what I'd do.

If I were an X1000 owner I'd want the drivers as soon as they're ready, not waiting for a few months in case it upsets the owner of a Sam somewhere that I got an update and he didn't.

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kas1e 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 16:47:35
#55 ]
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Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3527
From: Russia

@Mechanic
Quote:

And you are HERE stating your views.


Because to point out on the moments, on which users outside laugh, and why there is not so many new and skilled persons come. Update should be called update, quick fix should be called quick fix. It can sounds like nitpiting, but still to avoid any possible wrong moments.

Quote:

But for you my friend. What is the value of being Russian if you can not be miserable?


:)) Sure , only russians can or can not be miserable, heil hitler ! :)

@all

Will try to explain again :

My point, is that update of os its usually something BIG. And everyone outside know it (who a bit follow to amiga stuff). When you relese quickfix and call it update : it mess the stuff in heads of some users. They wait that "update" will be "update" , but not quick fix.

I.e. there is no point to make a bit news and call them "update", when its just some , not-very necessary, driver. That all of course does not matter much for you all, but as i say : thats why ppls outside laugh. Not only that, but that one as well.

@thinkchip
Quote:

I don't get your point. There are plenty of examples of companies releasing driver updates for particular hardware. Nobody considers it unprofessional. Nobody cares except for the people with that hardware.


Sure, point which i made: driver release should't be called like update. Its like now Acube will make a news "NEW OS4 SAM460 UPDATE!" and there is audio driver. Its kind of not big enough to call it update, thats the point (and thats , why ppls in the article about laugh : they think that we have only such kind of updates, and nothing more).

@Spiranto

You are right, sure. I just explain why outside-ppls who in interst laugh sometime. One of the reasons as i say its some over-hyping on things, which should't be over hyped. Update is update, everyone for years know that its something big. Quick fix or some driver with words "update" kind of mess the stuff.

But that all not important enough to discuss it a lot. Just you all know for sure why other ones laugh :)

@Xenic
Quote:

I didn't see a list of changes either. How horrible!


You don't need them on os4 ? Fine. Good for you. Other ones want it.

Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 05:00 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 04:56 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 04:54 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 26-Apr-2012 at 04:50 PM.

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gtmooya 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 17:30:56
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2011
Posts: 285
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:
That pata drivers for outside word its not much-needed hardware drivers : thats why author of article laugh at it. And its understanable. As OS updates its something major most of time, users outside monitor amiga sites, see big news "amigaos update for x1000 ! ", and when they come to it, they found just pata driver.


I would agree, it's important not to over state the significance of an update as people stop paying attention altogether if this happens often. For me it was an anticlimax to read the news item, that's not to say it's not good news, but the title led me to expect more. I can see why this has been reported negatively elsewhere.

Frequent updates are good IMHO (providing they are not riddled with bugs). Minor updates and drivers should be delivered via OS4Depot and/or AmiUpdate.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 17:41:47
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@kas1e

Way not just call it X1000 driver pack 1, does not sound as a major thing.

While I do appreciate incremental updates, I do also appropriate not needing to install 5 updates after fresh install of AmigaOS4.1, one or two updates whit out CD ISO is fine, but 3-5 updated whit just a installer is too much, anything go wrong whit detecting USB devices etc in earlier updates.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 17:46:59
#58 ]
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12191
From: Norway

@gtmooya

AmigaOS4.x is not freely distributed product, only logical place to download it is from Hyperion.

But I agree the server download capacity can be hazel for major updates, maybe if it the ISO/lha was encrypted, and just logged in Hyperion to get encryption key or you received it on email.

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broadblues 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 18:05:11
#59 ]
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Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4429
From: Portsmouth England

@kas1e

Quote:

Because to point out on the moments, on which users outside laugh,


There are no "users" on the outside. As to that article, ignorant people laugh at things they don't undertand.

How useful is a serial driver? Well many if not most amiga users have older amiga lying arround and serial device is very useful to connect to them. PATA drivers are clearly useful for accessing old hard disks another thing Amiga users are likely to have need of. These drivers aren't marketing points and weren't maerketed as such, they are useful for backward / extended compatability, if the writer of that article can't see that, it just proves he is out of touch with our neck of the woods.



Quote:

Update should be called update, quick fix should be called quick fix. It can sounds like nitpiting, but still to avoid any possible wrong moments.


It's not been announced as a full update, it's not on the front page of the hyperion site, nor was it even announced on this site (by Hyperion), Update 5 hasn't evenj been announced (look at hyperions main site...) the X1000 got it early to enable people to buy / use the hardware, it's effectlively a beta release if not formerly termed that, much as with the SAM series when they came out.


Last edited by broadblues on 26-Apr-2012 at 06:05 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: They are hitting hard, here
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 18:43:53
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote:
@Mechanic
Quote:

And you are HERE stating your views.

Quote:

Because to point out on the moments, on which users outside laugh, and why there is not so many new and skilled persons come. Update should be called update, quick fix should be called quick fix. It can sounds like nitpiting, but still to avoid any possible wrong moments.


Quote:

But for you my friend. What is the value of being Russian if you can not be miserable?

[quote]
:)) Sure , only russians can or can not be miserable, heil hitler ! :)


OUCH! OK, OK. I'll stay away from your stove.

I guess it boils down to POV. Perhaps as a developer your view is more exacting as to what category a piece of software should fall into.

On my Fedora box there is only one menu selection for any software 'new stuff' and it is called "Software Updates". Bug fixes, drivers, security fixes, whole new programs, kernels............Software Updates. Then there is also AmiUpdate.

Ah well, the world is still spinning. Da?



Last edited by Mechanic on 26-Apr-2012 at 06:47 PM.

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